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homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes

Started by buildthisfixthat, September 20, 2010, 08:44:00 PM

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buildthisfixthat

does anyone have any experence with this problem and how can i fix the problem i have the blade turning at approx 1,000 rpms
shop built bandsaw mill

LOGDOG

Welcome to the Forum Buildthisfixthat.

On your blade issue. Did you have your blade tensioned to run at 1000 rpms? Does it have proper clearance? Are the teeth wide enough to give the body of the blade a bit of an air cushion on both sides? Is there a guide maybe rubbing on the blade that could be causing heat? Do you have the proper lead in the blade?

Somewhere I have a pdf of a handbook for Circle saws. I'll see if I can find it and I'll post it if I do.

Jeff

You should print out and read this because your 1000 RPM reference makes me think you may need to do some book work :):

Circular Sawmills and Their Efficient Operation(PDF FILE)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

LOGDOG

That's the one I was going to post.

Jeff is there a trick to posting a pdf file. The uploader dais I had a "forbidden extension" when I tried to upload the pdf.

That's a good booklet though for sure.

bandmiller2

Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.?  Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Jeff

LOGDOG, The file is way to big for you to upload. We link to the Forest Service version
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

buildthisfixthat

hello yes i do have and read the operations hand book however it does not go into detail about solid tooth blades also i have adjusted the lead now good ,the theeth are razor sharp,the swag is just the right kerf,i have put a steel roller blade guide and works quite well instead of the oak one ,i did not have the blade worked on i do have other blades and they all do the same when they get warming they dist to the slab side of the saw,,at what dia of the blade needs to be hammered??
shop built bandsaw mill

buildthisfixthat

Quote from: bandmiller2 on September 20, 2010, 09:20:29 PM
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.? im a stone throw from bangor maine  Frank C.
yes i built the saw to cut some 2x4s4x4 s,6x6s from some trees on the property rather than run the small logs to the real sawmill and yes it is a solid tooth blade and has a tooth with a big hook ,i have also tried a 29"blade with knife tooth cut very smooth but took a lot of power and that one dished badly the saw is powered by a 10 hp kohler on my tractor i have it turning 3:1 it cuts nice up to 7" inches of log until it heats up ??
shop built bandsaw mill

buildthisfixthat

Quote from: buildthisfixthat on September 20, 2010, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: bandmiller2 on September 20, 2010, 09:20:29 PM
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.? im a stone throw from bangor maine  Frank C.
yes i built the saw to cut some 2x4s4x4 s,6x6s from some trees on the property rather than run the small logs to the real sawmill and yes it is a solid tooth blade and has a tooth with a big hook ,i have also tried a 29"blade with knife tooth cut very smooth but took a lot of power and that one dished badly the saw is powered by a 10 hp kohler on my tractor i have it turning 3:1 it cuts nice up to 7" inches of log until it heats up ?? the arbor is 1-7/16 and the blade flanges are 3-1/2
shop built bandsaw mill

Jeff

It certainly sounds to me like you are using blades never meant to be sawmill blades and will never work for that purpose. You really need to read that entire book. I'm not trying to be funny or disrespectful, but what you appear to have is not a sawmill, but a homemade oversized skillsaw.  Even a skillsaw wont rip with a crosscut blade.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

LOGDOG

Thanks Jeff. I'm glad you told me about the size issue. That saves me from trying again and again.  :)

buildthisfixthat

Quote from: Jeff on September 20, 2010, 10:00:53 PM
It certainly sounds to me like you are using blades never meant to be sawmill blades and will never work for that purpose. You really need to read that entire book. I'm not trying to be funny or disrespectful, but what you appear to have is not a sawmill, but a homemade oversized skillsaw.  Even a skillsaw wont rip with a crosscut blade.what type of blade do you use for riping?
crosscut meaning large hook tooth ? ok in that case im looking for a 24 -30""custom inserted tooth blade for a 1-7/16 arbor ,any info on who makes them would be helpful thanks
shop built bandsaw mill

Jeff

There are a few things you need to keep in mind.  Saw blades are made to run a certain RPM. 1000 RPM is almost twice as fast as most sawmill saws run. How is your saw hung? Do you know what a saw collar is? Do you know what the function of the collars are?

You really need to gain an understanding on how a circle mill works before you go searching for a blade, or you are not going to make any headway at all. I say again, read that book!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ianab

At that size you may be wanting to look at the smaller circle saw blades, like used on the Swingblade mills.

http://www.petersonsawmills.com/products_blades.htm
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=DT10%2018
http://www.turb-o-saw.com/TURBOBLADE.html

Note that they use only 4 to 8 carbide cutters, reason for that is that for each cutter to work efficiently it takes 2 or 3 hp to drive it. If you try and run more cutters with limited power you end up just trying to scrape your way through the wood, making fine dust. Slow and heats up the saw. Once it gets hot, you loose the tension and everything turns to custard.

The info in Jeff's sawmill link is all correct, but it tends to consider more the larger circle saws, 50 odd teeth, turning at 540 rpm, with 100 hp to drive them. With the smaller dia, you would up the rpm, to keep the tip speed similar, and reduce the number of cutters to match the HP you have. Then each cutter interacts with the wood in the same way. Looking at the chips it cuts they should look exactly the same, that is chips, not dust. Of course the big saw makes a LOT more chips, but in exactly the same way.

Several members have built (or are building) their own swingblade mills, thats more along the scale you are looking at, just simpler as it need not swing.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Ron Wenrich

You may want to look into a chainsaw mill for those small logs.  A lot less hassle than trying to invent a sawmill.  I built one for less than $100, not counting the chainsaw.   If you're good at welding, a more substantial one can be made.

What you're doing is probably costing you more than the wood is worth, and it could be dangerous at those RPMs. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

bandmiller2

Build/fix,we're all just shooting in the dark and really need to see picture of your mill.What Ian says makes sence with what you have for power a swing mill blade would probibly work if you can adapt it to your arbor as they are screwed to a flange with special countersunk bolts.Did you have any circular mill parts or build everything.?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

buildthisfixthat

hello trying to post photos ,hope to figure out how to today and get them posted
shop built bandsaw mill

Jeff

If you dont get it figured out email them to jeff at forestryforum.com  and I'll put them up for you.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

bandmiller2

Build/fix,It looks like you have some hook on the teeth which is what you need for ripping cuts.That saw sure looks like a cordwood blade I really don't know if it will ever be efficient as a headsaw.Be sure you have enough set yours looks like spring set where alternating teeth are bent right and left.Also you must have the saw aligned with the carriage and a small amount of lead.Regular headsaws are tapered.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

buildthisfixthat

Quote from: bandmiller2 on September 21, 2010, 07:05:25 AM
Build/fix,we're all just shooting in the dark and really need to see picture of your mill.What Ian says makes sence with what you have for power a swing mill blade would probibly work if you can adapt it to your arbor as they are screwed to a flange with special countersunk bolts.Did you have any circular mill parts or build everything.?? Frank C.
frank i made all the parts myself a guy had a bolt mill setup for 400.00 but that had end dogs and only good for 8 foot cants,i made some headway thanks to all .the local saw shop gets 125.00 to hammer blades and 50 to sharp but anyway my blade was razor sharp however ,the forum got me thinking to take a closer look at the teeth and found the gullets were rounded, the profile was orr so i spend an hour and a half filing and flattening the 32 f-tooth rip blade she cuts much better and spits chip s and no dust cut 10"log 10 foot long no problem made a nice 6x6 though im going to reduce the rpms to about 700 the 10 hp kohler seems to be just enought power though im looking at a twin wisconsin so i can have my tractor back by the way i bought a hydraulic pump from a guy in franklin mass about 12 years ago he had built his own firewood processor all hydraulic the guy was quite a craftsman
shop built bandsaw mill

paul case

glad to hear you are up and running. must be handy to have a saw expert so close. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

weisyboy

your saw tips should run at 11000 fpm the rpm will depend on the size of the blade.

the saws have to be hammered in just the right way. saws in Australia are no longer hammered but rolled by machinery. the hammering puts a dish in the blade so that when the saw spins up the momentum trows it out straight.

i would recomend you take the rollers off and put packing blocks back in.

the packing should be just firm on the front of the blade and a single block on one side at the back of the blade is a good idea,

watch the blade end on as it spins up it will wobble and once the optimum rpm is reached it will sit streight once that rpm is exceeded it will begin to wobble again.

i would say the reason your blades are heating up is the saw is out of alignment. you should have criss cross saw marks on your timber. can you get us a picture of the sawmarks.

as for tooth hook angel i have no experience cutting pine on benches but in hardwood mill blades, if you put a straight edge along the inside edge of the tooth it should run across the blade at about 1/3 out from the center of the blade.

god bless america god save the queen god defend new zealand and thank christ for Australia
www.weisssawmilling.com.au
http://www.youtube.com/user/weisyboy?feature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000696669814&sk=photos

weisyboy

just did the math your 25" blade should be running at 1600rpm.
god bless america god save the queen god defend new zealand and thank christ for Australia
www.weisssawmilling.com.au
http://www.youtube.com/user/weisyboy?feature=mhee
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000696669814&sk=photos

Jeff

No way in the world weisyboy. Thats not a swing mill, thats not a swingmill blade.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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