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Author Topic: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes  (Read 14095 times)

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Offline buildthisfixthat

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homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« on: September 20, 2010, 08:44:00 pm »
does anyone have any experence with this problem and how can i fix the problem i have the blade turning at approx 1,000 rpms
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 09:02:55 pm »
Welcome to the Forum Buildthisfixthat.

On your blade issue. Did you have your blade tensioned to run at 1000 rpms? Does it have proper clearance? Are the teeth wide enough to give the body of the blade a bit of an air cushion on both sides? Is there a guide maybe rubbing on the blade that could be causing heat? Do you have the proper lead in the blade?

Somewhere I have a pdf of a handbook for Circle saws. I'll see if I can find it and I'll post it if I do.

Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 09:08:06 pm »
You should print out and read this because your 1000 RPM reference makes me think you may need to do some book work :):

Circular Sawmills and Their Efficient Operation(PDF FILE)
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 09:13:27 pm »
That's the one I was going to post.

Jeff is there a trick to posting a pdf file. The uploader dais I had a "forbidden extension" when I tried to upload the pdf.

That's a good booklet though for sure.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 09:20:29 pm »
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.?  Frank C.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 09:33:40 pm »
LOGDOG, The file is way to big for you to upload. We link to the Forest Service version
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2010, 09:35:07 pm »
hello yes i do have and read the operations hand book however it does not go into detail about solid tooth blades also i have adjusted the lead now good ,the theeth are razor sharp,the swag is just the right kerf,i have put a steel roller blade guide and works quite well instead of the oak one ,i did not have the blade worked on i do have other blades and they all do the same when they get warming they dist to the slab side of the saw,,at what dia of the blade needs to be hammered??
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2010, 09:56:10 pm »
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.? im a stone throw from bangor maine  Frank C.
yes i built the saw to cut some 2x4s4x4 s,6x6s from some trees on the property rather than run the small logs to the real sawmill and yes it is a solid tooth blade and has a tooth with a big hook ,i have also tried a 29"blade with knife tooth cut very smooth but took a lot of power and that one dished badly the saw is powered by a 10 hp kohler on my tractor i have it turning 3:1 it cuts nice up to 7" inches of log until it heats up ??
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2010, 10:00:42 pm »
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.? im a stone throw from bangor maine  Frank C.
yes i built the saw to cut some 2x4s4x4 s,6x6s from some trees on the property rather than run the small logs to the real sawmill and yes it is a solid tooth blade and has a tooth with a big hook ,i have also tried a 29"blade with knife tooth cut very smooth but took a lot of power and that one dished badly the saw is powered by a 10 hp kohler on my tractor i have it turning 3:1 it cuts nice up to 7" inches of log until it heats up ?? the arbor is 1-7/16 and the blade flanges are 3-1/2
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2010, 10:00:53 pm »
It certainly sounds to me like you are using blades never meant to be sawmill blades and will never work for that purpose. You really need to read that entire book. I'm not trying to be funny or disrespectful, but what you appear to have is not a sawmill, but a homemade oversized skillsaw.  Even a skillsaw wont rip with a crosscut blade.
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2010, 10:29:36 pm »
Thanks Jeff. I'm glad you told me about the size issue. That saves me from trying again and again.  :)

Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2010, 10:59:24 pm »
It certainly sounds to me like you are using blades never meant to be sawmill blades and will never work for that purpose. You really need to read that entire book. I'm not trying to be funny or disrespectful, but what you appear to have is not a sawmill, but a homemade oversized skillsaw.  Even a skillsaw wont rip with a crosscut blade.what type of blade do you use for riping?
crosscut meaning large hook tooth ? ok in that case im looking for a 24 -30""custom inserted tooth blade for a 1-7/16 arbor ,any info on who makes them would be helpful thanks
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2010, 11:11:25 pm »
There are a few things you need to keep in mind.  Saw blades are made to run a certain RPM. 1000 RPM is almost twice as fast as most sawmill saws run. How is your saw hung? Do you know what a saw collar is? Do you know what the function of the collars are?

You really need to gain an understanding on how a circle mill works before you go searching for a blade, or you are not going to make any headway at all. I say again, read that book!
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Offline Ianab

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2010, 01:40:53 am »
At that size you may be wanting to look at the smaller circle saw blades, like used on the Swingblade mills.

http://www.petersonsawmills.com/products_blades.htm
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=DT10%2018
http://www.turb-o-saw.com/TURBOBLADE.html

Note that they use only 4 to 8 carbide cutters, reason for that is that for each cutter to work efficiently it takes 2 or 3 hp to drive it. If you try and run more cutters with limited power you end up just trying to scrape your way through the wood, making fine dust. Slow and heats up the saw. Once it gets hot, you loose the tension and everything turns to custard.

The info in Jeff's sawmill link is all correct, but it tends to consider more the larger circle saws, 50 odd teeth, turning at 540 rpm, with 100 hp to drive them. With the smaller dia, you would up the rpm, to keep the tip speed similar, and reduce the number of cutters to match the HP you have. Then each cutter interacts with the wood in the same way. Looking at the chips it cuts they should look exactly the same, that is chips, not dust. Of course the big saw makes a LOT more chips, but in exactly the same way.

Several members have built (or are building) their own swingblade mills, thats more along the scale you are looking at, just simpler as it need not swing.

Ian
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2010, 05:37:57 am »
You may want to look into a chainsaw mill for those small logs.  A lot less hassle than trying to invent a sawmill.  I built one for less than $100, not counting the chainsaw.   If you're good at welding, a more substantial one can be made.

What you're doing is probably costing you more than the wood is worth, and it could be dangerous at those RPMs. 
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2010, 07:05:25 am »
Build/fix,we're all just shooting in the dark and really need to see picture of your mill.What Ian says makes sence with what you have for power a swing mill blade would probibly work if you can adapt it to your arbor as they are screwed to a flange with special countersunk bolts.Did you have any circular mill parts or build everything.?? Frank C.
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2010, 09:34:13 am »
hello trying to post photos ,hope to figure out how to today and get them posted
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2010, 09:40:22 am »
If you dont get it figured out email them to jeff at forestryforum.com  and I'll put them up for you.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2010, 08:46:32 pm »
Buildthisfixthat's photos

 









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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2010, 09:32:33 pm »
Build/fix,It looks like you have some hook on the teeth which is what you need for ripping cuts.That saw sure looks like a cordwood blade I really don't know if it will ever be efficient as a headsaw.Be sure you have enough set yours looks like spring set where alternating teeth are bent right and left.Also you must have the saw aligned with the carriage and a small amount of lead.Regular headsaws are tapered.Frank C.
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2010, 09:33:27 pm »
Build/fix,we're all just shooting in the dark and really need to see picture of your mill.What Ian says makes sence with what you have for power a swing mill blade would probibly work if you can adapt it to your arbor as they are screwed to a flange with special countersunk bolts.Did you have any circular mill parts or build everything.?? Frank C.
frank i made all the parts myself a guy had a bolt mill setup for 400.00 but that had end dogs and only good for 8 foot cants,i made some headway thanks to all .the local saw shop gets 125.00 to hammer blades and 50 to sharp but anyway my blade was razor sharp however ,the forum got me thinking to take a closer look at the teeth and found the gullets were rounded, the profile was orr so i spend an hour and a half filing and flattening the 32 f-tooth rip blade she cuts much better and spits chip s and no dust cut 10"log 10 foot long no problem made a nice 6x6 though im going to reduce the rpms to about 700 the 10 hp kohler seems to be just enought power though im looking at a twin wisconsin so i can have my tractor back by the way i bought a hydraulic pump from a guy in franklin mass about 12 years ago he had built his own firewood processor all hydraulic the guy was quite a craftsman
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2010, 09:48:42 pm »
glad to hear you are up and running. must be handy to have a saw expert so close. pc
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Offline weisyboy

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2010, 05:02:49 am »
your saw tips should run at 11000 fpm the rpm will depend on the size of the blade.

the saws have to be hammered in just the right way. saws in Australia are no longer hammered but rolled by machinery. the hammering puts a dish in the blade so that when the saw spins up the momentum trows it out straight.

i would recomend you take the rollers off and put packing blocks back in.

the packing should be just firm on the front of the blade and a single block on one side at the back of the blade is a good idea,

watch the blade end on as it spins up it will wobble and once the optimum rpm is reached it will sit streight once that rpm is exceeded it will begin to wobble again.

i would say the reason your blades are heating up is the saw is out of alignment. you should have criss cross saw marks on your timber. can you get us a picture of the sawmarks.

as for tooth hook angel i have no experience cutting pine on benches but in hardwood mill blades, if you put a straight edge along the inside edge of the tooth it should run across the blade at about 1/3 out from the center of the blade.


Offline weisyboy

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2010, 05:05:06 am »
just did the math your 25" blade should be running at 1600rpm.

Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2010, 05:20:45 am »
No way in the world weisyboy. Thats not a swing mill, thats not a swingmill blade.
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Offline weisyboy

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2010, 06:14:23 am »
im not talking bout swing mill blades.

we used to run a big mill here until the local council shut us down.

we had breakdown saws up to 90" in diameter. tip speed on all saw benches is 11000fpm.

i have 2 number 3 benches running here 22" blades running tip speed of 11000fpm.

larger the blade the lower the rpm. but tip speed has to stay at about 11000fpm.

all benches run at this speed.


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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2010, 10:15:35 pm »
You may want to look into a chainsaw mill for those small logs.  A lot less hassle than trying to invent a sawmill.  I built one for less than $100, not counting the chainsaw.   If you're good at welding, a more substantial one can be made.

What you're doing is probably costing you more than the wood is worth, and it could be dangerous at those RPMs. 
i though about a chain mill but getting enough oil on the chain and keeping it sharp may be a challenge ?how does yours cut do you have any problems
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2010, 10:36:53 pm »
your saw tips should run at 11000 fpm the rpm will depend on the size of the blade.

the saws have to be hammered in just the right way. saws in Australia are no longer hammered but rolled by machinery. the hammering puts a dish in the blade so that when the saw spins up the momentum trows it out straight.

i would recomend you take the rollers off and put packing blocks back in.

the packing should be just firm on the front of the blade and a single block on one side at the back of the blade is a good idea,

watch the blade end on as it spins up it will wobble and once the optimum rpm is reached it will sit streight once that rpm is exceeded it will begin to wobble again.

i would say the reason your blades are heating up is the saw is out of alignment. you should have criss cross saw marks on your timber. can you get us a picture of the sawmarks.

as for tooth hook angel i have no experience cutting pine on benches but in hardwood mill blades, if you put a straight edge along the inside edge of the tooth it should run across the blade at about 1/3 out from the center of the blade.


  i will post some picks of the saw cut.why would you remove the roller?after sharpening and flatting the blade it now cuts good but only up to 5"of wood any more and she heats ant takes a left or right turn off the line
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Offline weisyboy

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2010, 06:06:02 am »
i just dont like roller guides on bench saws.

we have been using timber wear pads from day dot and they have never let us down. but i have had problem with rollers. scoring the balde and ruining tension.


you should be able to get a 9" cut from a 25" blade but an 7 is more advisable.

how fast are you feeding?



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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2010, 02:48:01 pm »
weisboy I think you missed a step in your math somewhere ;D That's a skillsaw chart you're using it's not a very good guide for a headsaw  30 yrs of sawing on big mills and about 750 was as fast as we ever ran a solid tooth and an insert about 550 sometimes 600 You basically have to have a purpose built saw to stand up  the collar has to rt there are a lot of variables guide height, placement of the guide in relation to the saw rim or rings It's the combination of all the rt things that make it run rt You need to string the saw with the carriage you have to make sure the v rail and the mandrell are rt I could go on but you get the pic jmo I also don't want my saw flopping around leaving marks with the back of the saw if it's rt it's sweet if it's not well you know the answer to that
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2010, 05:22:31 pm »
i though about a chain mill but getting enough oil on the chain and keeping it sharp may be a challenge ?how does yours cut do you have any problems

Keeping a solid tooth blade is way more challenging than a chain saw.  If you need extra oil, you can put on an extra oiler kit if needed.

You already have a carriage that can dog down a log.  I assume you have a way of advancing the log forward on the carriage.  I know you don't have a setworks, but you probably have some sort of gauge to tell you how far to move it to pull a one inch board.

Instead of moving the carriage through the saw, you can move your chainsaw through your log.  Most mills use a horizontal chain saw to do this.  I never had too much luck with that method.  I saw where a guy was using one on the vertical.  It makes a lot more sense, and that's what I did.

I use a Haddon style guide which you can get on Ebay.  I use a 2x6 as a guide.  I support it on the ends and run the saw through the log.  No bending over with the saw, and no backaches.  It produces pretty decent lumber.  I'm just playing around instead of taking the logs to the mill where I work.

The other setup I saw used a metal bar as a guide.  Then, it had a larger metal sleeve that was fastened to your saw bar.  This setup is great if you have a dedicated saw and you plan to saw quite a few logs.  Its a good small log setup and the video I saw, the guy was making cuts in about 30 seconds on an 8' pine log.  The Haddon setup may be able to be converted to this type of setup with some modification.
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2010, 09:03:39 pm »
i just dont like roller guides on bench saws.

we have been using timber wear pads from day dot and they have never let us down. but i have had problem with rollers. scoring the balde and ruining tension.


you should be able to get a 9" cut from a 25" blade but an 7 is more advisable.

how fast are you feeding?the feed is a variable speed gearbox so it depends on what size the cut is .and i m going  with the wood wear pad guides thanks



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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2010, 11:25:45 pm »
i just dont like roller guides on bench saws.

we have been using timber wear pads from day dot and they have never let us down. but i have had problem with rollers. scoring the balde and ruining tension.


you should be able to get a 9" cut from a 25" blade but an 7 is more advisable.

how fast are you feeding?the feed is a variable speed gearbox so it depends on what size the cut is .and i m going  with the wood wear pad guides thanks




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Offline weisyboy

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2010, 01:51:11 am »
here is a pic of my small resawbench.

16" blade runs at about 3000 rpm.

has only got 2hp 3 phase on it, i am looking for a 10hp petrol to replace it with.




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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2010, 09:05:43 am »
Get out the emery cloth and sand paper, builditfixthat.

Make sure that your saw and collars are free of rust. There should be a 3deg. slant to the collars from the rim of the collar to the centre.

Check the set in the saw and make certain that there is some clearance. The wood will heat the saw if it is rubbing the body.

Check your arbour to make certain it is running true.

Also make not of where the saw is heating; rim, collar, whole saw... That will also give you an idea of where the problem is.

Machinery's Handbook 23rd Edition has saw speeds in it. Of course, I can't put my hands on my copy right now but, 1000 RPM for a 25" saw isn't out of line with those tables.
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Offline 5quarter

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2010, 12:10:09 am »
Weisyboy---I gotta say thats a great bench saw. what kind of stuff do you push through there?

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2010, 03:45:46 am »
just about anything that needs running down.

stuff under 3" i have done 4 but its underpowered by about 8hp for that.

mainly for re sawing edge cuts down into usable timber.

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2010, 10:09:46 am »
here is a pic of my small resawbench.

16" blade runs at about 3000 rpm.

has only got 2hp 3 phase on it, i am looking for a 10hp petrol to replace it with.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2010, 10:34:14 am »
Get out the emery cloth and sand paper, builditfixthat.

Make sure that your saw and collars are free of rust. There should be a 3deg. slant to the collars from the rim of the collar to the centre.

Check the set in the saw and make certain that there is some clearance. The wood will heat the saw if it is rubbing the body.

Check your arbour to make certain it is running true.

Also make not of where the saw is heating; rim, collar, whole saw... That will also give you an idea of where the problem is.
  yes that was the problem the tooth set was to narrow and was rubbing the wood i opened it up to 1/4 kerf now cuts right through blade was cold after cut  im still trying to post some picks of the saw
Machinery's Handbook 23rd Edition has saw speeds in it. Of course, I can't put my hands on my copy right now but, 1000 RPM for a 25" saw isn't out of line with those tables.
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Offline Chico

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2010, 12:35:01 am »
In reality a saw collar is measured by thousanths and the taper should only be on the first 3/8 to 1/2 inch or so where is your guides in relation to the eye and the rim of your saw how much lead do you really have in in it and is the tooth spacing and set or swage the same all the way around the saw these are critical factors in saw performance and being free from rust and having flat surfaces where you collars fit is very important  jmo
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2010, 09:19:17 pm »
so wat is the better rpm 500 or 300 for a circle mill

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2010, 10:16:47 pm »
500 rpms is the better speed most run 500 to 700
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2010, 10:35:38 pm »
depends on your saw diamiter.

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2010, 10:50:08 pm »
Thanks, Buildthisfixthat.  I had a much more detailed explanation but you beat me to it.  It's all a balancing act really between power available, feed speed, and saw diameter.  Weisyboy mentioned rim speed, and I think he has a point however my headsaw 50" is running at 600 rpm and the rim speed is 7850f/m.  It seems to cut pretty well.  Number of teeth play a role in feed speed and power needed as well.  300 rpm would be pretty slow, the blade would not have much inertia to make it through the cut, however I have seen one old blade on a water powered mill that was designed to run slow, so it can be done.  

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2010, 05:44:41 am »
If rim speed was that important, why don't all mills running a certain sized saw run at the same RPM?  Why is there a difference in shank styles?  Why don't all mills have the same sized collars?  Rim speed is a factor, but not the factor.  I've run 54" blades as slow as 325 or as fast as 700.  They can be made to cut at all those RPMs, and to cut efficiently.  The faster you go, the more the problems.

One factor is power.  Less power means you can drag fewer teeth through the log.  Many guys will only use every other tooth when power is not enough. 

Then there is how the power is delivered.  I've seen guys run big engines, but not enough belts to deliver the power from the engine to the arbor.  That's a problem, but they often know much more than I do and think you can deliver 150 hp through 3 or 4 belts.

Feed speed is important.  I've seen guys take their control stick and pull it back the whole way to feed as fast as they can.  Their lumber looks like it too. 

Sharpness counts, as does proper filing techniques.  You can file lead into or out of a saw.  Sometimes the teeth aren't manufactured very well.  Sometimes the logs grow in a manner that doesn't allow for fast feeding.  When you have problems, you better be able to figure out which ones to target. 

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2010, 06:56:10 am »
Anouther factor with headsaw speed is the chip size per tooth,you want each tooth to take about 1/10 inch per revolution.At high rpm's that log is flying buy you like your standing beside the interstate,anything happens you have little time to react.High speed sucks up horsepower and fuel and throws a big load on your offbearer.As Ron says their are many variables,but when everything works out right you know it. Frank C.
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2010, 07:39:03 am »
Anouther factor with headsaw speed is the chip size per tooth,you want each tooth to take about 1/10 inch per revolution.At high rpm's that log is flying buy you like your standing beside the interstate,anything happens you have little time to react.High speed sucks up horsepower and fuel and throws a big load on your offbearer.As Ron says their are many variables,but when everything works out right you know it. Frank C.

Actually, the feed rate rule of thumb is 4" per revolution. I built the hydraulic drive on my mill to this capacity. That makes it PDQ, and I rarely, if ever run the feed to this speed. Mind you, I also set up the circuit to return 4x as quick.

I have the headsaw on my sawmill hammered for 800 rpm. Both my 48" and 52" are hammered this way.

I have a Ford 300 6cyl for a power plant on the sawmill with a direct drive through a modified drive shaft. With a good mechanical governor. Quite frankly, it is underpowered. I used what I had...

So: As we've moved away from builditfixthat's issue in the thread... :) I'm sure some of you are looking at this with a raised eyebrow. This is why I set my mill up in this manner:

The blade is hammered for 800 rpm to provide extra stiffness to keep the saw straighter when the rpm drops off in larger stuff, particularly on the first flitches that are taken off.

The feed rate is important. If the rpm drops off the saw tends to wander. Control of that feed rate to a fairly reliable degree contributes to this. The control for my carriage drive is mounted on the floor with a long piece of pipe for a handle to make it easier to feather the valve.

Sharpening is important, both the tooth and the shank. Throw in tooth clearance here as well. Clearing the gullet prevents the saw from scrubbing on the wood. In frozen, or partly frozen wood, it prevents the sawdust from refreezing on the cut and rubbing on the saw. Shanks and teeth have to be centred. 

Rust free saws and collars are important. The slightest bit of dirt in the collar, where it bears on the saw, can cause heating in the saw.

Torque through the drive line will twist the shafts; This twist translates into lost power. Try this with a seized nut and bolt sometime. Put a few extensions between the ratchet and the socket and try to loosen the seized nut, then remove the extensions and do the same. I shortened my drive shaft by 8" and figure I saved about 5% of my horsepower.

There are more issues to running a circular saw than rim speed. Weisyboy's math looks in line to me though...

I've found that if mine is heating, the first place I look is to the sharpening, then cleanliness of the saw.

The 8" saw on the shingle edger I built is running 8000rpm. The 32" blade on my shinglemill is running 1700 rpm. I run the sawmill at 750 rpm... I hate slow equipment, but I feed them to keep the rpm up as well.
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2010, 09:09:57 am »
Actually, the feed rate rule of thumb is 4" per revolution.

Actually, that statement can only applied to a given saw with a given amount of teeth.  Bandmiller2's  statement about per tooth is much more accurate.  He said per tooth, per revolution, not just per revolution.
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2010, 10:06:31 am »
Actually, the feed rate rule of thumb is 4" per revolution.

Actually, that statement can only applied to a given saw with a given amount of teeth.  Bandmiller2's  statement about per tooth is much more accurate.  He said per tooth, per revolution, not just per revolution.


I should read more closely...
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2010, 11:11:06 am »
ahah now that my blade stays cold and flat thank you to all forum responders made targeting my problem a easy bullseye ,(toothset)i almost threw in the towel on 4 weeks of enginerring and fabracating .now that im sawing logs into lumber ,whats the average time it takes to saw lets say 6"dia 10 foot long log into a 4x4 ?my time is 10 minutes from dogging to done .what do you think also carpenter metioned inertia =torque im looking for a bit more torque i have a flywheel from a model a weight is about 30 lbs was thinking to put it on the arbor ? any ideas as to ideal placement ? jackshaft ?end of arbor . how will it relate to h/p 
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2010, 11:29:30 am »
I'd put it on the arbour.
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2010, 05:23:51 pm »
ahah now that my blade stays cold and flat thank you to all forum responders made targeting my problem a easy bullseye ,(toothset)i almost threw in the towel on 4 weeks of enginerring and fabracating .now that im sawing logs into lumber ,whats the average time it takes to saw lets say 6"dia 10 foot long log into a 4x4 ?my time is 10 minutes from dogging to done .what do you think also carpenter metioned inertia =torque im looking for a bit more torque i have a flywheel from a model a weight is about 30 lbs was thinking to put it on the arbor ? any ideas as to ideal placement ? jackshaft ?end of arbor . how will it relate to h/p 

I average 5-6 lines/minute and that includes turning.  Also, that's in oak.

 
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2010, 05:35:01 pm »
For clarification in case its not clear what a line is, Its the sawing pass and return of the saw.
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2010, 09:54:05 pm »
I can break a 16" diam x 14' long big tooth aspen down completely into 2"X10"s in 9 mins from the time the log is dogged until I release the dog board  :)  My offbearer did the timing  :)  I guess I wasn't sawing fast enough if he had time for that  eh eh
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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2010, 10:19:47 pm »
I guess I wasn't sawing fast enough if he had time for that  eh eh

You sure work your dad hard.  ;D