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Author Topic: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes  (Read 14083 times)

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Offline buildthisfixthat

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homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« on: September 20, 2010, 08:44:00 pm »
does anyone have any experence with this problem and how can i fix the problem i have the blade turning at approx 1,000 rpms
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 09:02:55 pm »
Welcome to the Forum Buildthisfixthat.

On your blade issue. Did you have your blade tensioned to run at 1000 rpms? Does it have proper clearance? Are the teeth wide enough to give the body of the blade a bit of an air cushion on both sides? Is there a guide maybe rubbing on the blade that could be causing heat? Do you have the proper lead in the blade?

Somewhere I have a pdf of a handbook for Circle saws. I'll see if I can find it and I'll post it if I do.

Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 09:08:06 pm »
You should print out and read this because your 1000 RPM reference makes me think you may need to do some book work :):

Circular Sawmills and Their Efficient Operation(PDF FILE)
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 09:13:27 pm »
That's the one I was going to post.

Jeff is there a trick to posting a pdf file. The uploader dais I had a "forbidden extension" when I tried to upload the pdf.

That's a good booklet though for sure.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 09:20:29 pm »
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.?  Frank C.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 09:33:40 pm »
LOGDOG, The file is way to big for you to upload. We link to the Forest Service version
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2010, 09:35:07 pm »
hello yes i do have and read the operations hand book however it does not go into detail about solid tooth blades also i have adjusted the lead now good ,the theeth are razor sharp,the swag is just the right kerf,i have put a steel roller blade guide and works quite well instead of the oak one ,i did not have the blade worked on i do have other blades and they all do the same when they get warming they dist to the slab side of the saw,,at what dia of the blade needs to be hammered??
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2010, 09:56:10 pm »
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.? im a stone throw from bangor maine  Frank C.
yes i built the saw to cut some 2x4s4x4 s,6x6s from some trees on the property rather than run the small logs to the real sawmill and yes it is a solid tooth blade and has a tooth with a big hook ,i have also tried a 29"blade with knife tooth cut very smooth but took a lot of power and that one dished badly the saw is powered by a 10 hp kohler on my tractor i have it turning 3:1 it cuts nice up to 7" inches of log until it heats up ??
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2010, 10:00:42 pm »
Build/fix,sounds to me like someone took a cross cut cordwood saw blade and is using it for a rip saw on a small mill.What size is the arbor hole on the saw, I'am quite sure you don't have inserted bits.Outher than ripping boards or small [very small] logs you really need a real sawmill headsaw the smallest commonly available are the 40" used by Belsaw.Oh welcome, please show us some pictures of your mill,where are you located.? im a stone throw from bangor maine  Frank C.
yes i built the saw to cut some 2x4s4x4 s,6x6s from some trees on the property rather than run the small logs to the real sawmill and yes it is a solid tooth blade and has a tooth with a big hook ,i have also tried a 29"blade with knife tooth cut very smooth but took a lot of power and that one dished badly the saw is powered by a 10 hp kohler on my tractor i have it turning 3:1 it cuts nice up to 7" inches of log until it heats up ?? the arbor is 1-7/16 and the blade flanges are 3-1/2
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2010, 10:00:53 pm »
It certainly sounds to me like you are using blades never meant to be sawmill blades and will never work for that purpose. You really need to read that entire book. I'm not trying to be funny or disrespectful, but what you appear to have is not a sawmill, but a homemade oversized skillsaw.  Even a skillsaw wont rip with a crosscut blade.
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Offline LOGDOG

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2010, 10:29:36 pm »
Thanks Jeff. I'm glad you told me about the size issue. That saves me from trying again and again.  :)

Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2010, 10:59:24 pm »
It certainly sounds to me like you are using blades never meant to be sawmill blades and will never work for that purpose. You really need to read that entire book. I'm not trying to be funny or disrespectful, but what you appear to have is not a sawmill, but a homemade oversized skillsaw.  Even a skillsaw wont rip with a crosscut blade.what type of blade do you use for riping?
crosscut meaning large hook tooth ? ok in that case im looking for a 24 -30""custom inserted tooth blade for a 1-7/16 arbor ,any info on who makes them would be helpful thanks
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2010, 11:11:25 pm »
There are a few things you need to keep in mind.  Saw blades are made to run a certain RPM. 1000 RPM is almost twice as fast as most sawmill saws run. How is your saw hung? Do you know what a saw collar is? Do you know what the function of the collars are?

You really need to gain an understanding on how a circle mill works before you go searching for a blade, or you are not going to make any headway at all. I say again, read that book!
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Online Ianab

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2010, 01:40:53 am »
At that size you may be wanting to look at the smaller circle saw blades, like used on the Swingblade mills.

http://www.petersonsawmills.com/products_blades.htm
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=DT10%2018
http://www.turb-o-saw.com/TURBOBLADE.html

Note that they use only 4 to 8 carbide cutters, reason for that is that for each cutter to work efficiently it takes 2 or 3 hp to drive it. If you try and run more cutters with limited power you end up just trying to scrape your way through the wood, making fine dust. Slow and heats up the saw. Once it gets hot, you loose the tension and everything turns to custard.

The info in Jeff's sawmill link is all correct, but it tends to consider more the larger circle saws, 50 odd teeth, turning at 540 rpm, with 100 hp to drive them. With the smaller dia, you would up the rpm, to keep the tip speed similar, and reduce the number of cutters to match the HP you have. Then each cutter interacts with the wood in the same way. Looking at the chips it cuts they should look exactly the same, that is chips, not dust. Of course the big saw makes a LOT more chips, but in exactly the same way.

Several members have built (or are building) their own swingblade mills, thats more along the scale you are looking at, just simpler as it need not swing.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2010, 05:37:57 am »
You may want to look into a chainsaw mill for those small logs.  A lot less hassle than trying to invent a sawmill.  I built one for less than $100, not counting the chainsaw.   If you're good at welding, a more substantial one can be made.

What you're doing is probably costing you more than the wood is worth, and it could be dangerous at those RPMs. 
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2010, 07:05:25 am »
Build/fix,we're all just shooting in the dark and really need to see picture of your mill.What Ian says makes sence with what you have for power a swing mill blade would probibly work if you can adapt it to your arbor as they are screwed to a flange with special countersunk bolts.Did you have any circular mill parts or build everything.?? Frank C.
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Offline buildthisfixthat

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2010, 09:34:13 am »
hello trying to post photos ,hope to figure out how to today and get them posted
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2010, 09:40:22 am »
If you dont get it figured out email them to jeff at forestryforum.com  and I'll put them up for you.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2010, 08:46:32 pm »
Buildthisfixthat's photos

 









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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: homemade circle mill 25"blade gets hot and dishes
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2010, 09:32:33 pm »
Build/fix,It looks like you have some hook on the teeth which is what you need for ripping cuts.That saw sure looks like a cordwood blade I really don't know if it will ever be efficient as a headsaw.Be sure you have enough set yours looks like spring set where alternating teeth are bent right and left.Also you must have the saw aligned with the carriage and a small amount of lead.Regular headsaws are tapered.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece