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Anybody using the optional seat on the WM?

Started by StephenRice, September 18, 2010, 09:13:40 PM

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StephenRice

The command control does look like the best option but, at a nearly $4,400 premium, I am looking at all options to decide options' cost versus value.

Another thing to consider is aging and slowly diminishing eyesight.  The command control allows a person to get away from the sawdust, but it also keeps you further away from the 'goings on' of the sawmill to monitor the cutting and everything else with the mill head and what not.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

backwoods sawyer

You could always do like the big mills do and mount a camera right on the saw head and place a monitor in the saw shack. ;D
Seems like someone here has an LT-40 with the remote. It allows you to get out of the sawdust and get to where you can see all the goings on of the mill.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

StephenRice

Only then you are back to either walking around or getting in the way of your helpers who are off-loading and staging logs.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

Magicman

Quote from: StephenRice on September 21, 2010, 11:02:03 AM
getting in the way of your helpers who are off-loading and staging logs. 

How many "helpers" do you have  ???   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

D Hagens

Quote from: Magicman on September 19, 2010, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: StephenRice on September 19, 2010, 02:23:16 PMI do wonder how the sawdust is when you are sitting so close to the cutting head?  

That is a drawback.  When I can, I place the mill so that I am facing SW.  That way, the prevailing wind is in my face.  I have been known to sit up on the seat back.  That helps me to see over a a big log, as well as avoiding sawdust at times.  I also always wear a dust mask and eye protection when sawing.





  As mentioned in a few of the posts above is the issue with sawdust. I as a perspective sawmill buyer have been looking at every aspect of mills, good and bad. The good needs to never be addressed, the bad on the other hand will always need attention at some point or another.
I for one have never understood why Wood Mizer insists on having the operator walk through piles of sawdust or have it blown in ones face.
The mills that I've seen/operated all have the chutes on the side where it should be, not on the working side of things.
I've asked Wood Mizer about this and the answer was side tracked in a very fast talking way and there never was an answer.
I inquired about the chute being put on the other side as an option if I was going to buy one.
I'm not a rocket scientist but let's face it, the sawdust has to come out at some so how hard is it to put the chute where it belongs? In all reality there's no reason for the mill operator to know each and every day that he's sawing logs by walking through it or choking on it.
Wood Mizer I'm sure you make a great mill but I for one enjoy my health and I will be looking elsewhere.

StephenRice

Quote from: Magicman on September 21, 2010, 02:00:06 PM
Quote from: StephenRice on September 21, 2010, 11:02:03 AM
getting in the way of your helpers who are off-loading and staging logs. 

How many "helpers" do you have  ???   :D

Trust  me, I will have at least one or two.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

StephenRice

Quote from: D Hagens on September 21, 2010, 02:37:48 PM
Quote from: Magicman on September 19, 2010, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: StephenRice on September 19, 2010, 02:23:16 PMI do wonder how the sawdust is when you are sitting so close to the cutting head?  

That is a drawback.  When I can, I place the mill so that I am facing SW.  That way, the prevailing wind is in my face.  I have been known to sit up on the seat back.  That helps me to see over a a big log, as well as avoiding sawdust at times.  I also always wear a dust mask and eye protection when sawing.


  As mentioned in a few of the posts above is the issue with sawdust. I as a perspective sawmill buyer have been looking at every aspect of mills, good and bad. The good needs to never be addressed, the bad on the other hand will always need attention at some point or another.
I for one have never understood why Wood Mizer insists on having the operator walk through piles of sawdust or have it blown in ones face.
The mills that I've seen/operated all have the chutes on the side where it should be, not on the working side of things.
I've asked Wood Mizer about this and the answer was side tracked in a very fast talking way and there never was an answer.
I inquired about the chute being put on the other side as an option if I was going to buy one.
I'm not a rocket scientist but let's face it, the sawdust has to come out at some so how hard is it to put the chute where it belongs? In all reality there's no reason for the mill operator to know each and every day that he's sawing logs by walking through it or choking on it.
Wood Mizer I'm sure you make a great mill but I for one enjoy my health and I will be looking elsewhere.


Oh, come now.  Let's talk about that and give WM a fair shake.

First of all, WM's sawmills have a shoot that piles up the sawdust several feet from the mill, thus allowing the operator to have a reasonably clear path to walk over.  Once you get a pile of sawdust so huge that it is overflowing to where the operator has to walk, then you will have cut a lot of logs and it will be time to go home, move the mill over just a bit, or move the pile with a piece of equipment.  Even if you were to just use a s*** shovel, it would only take less than five minutes to move the pile out of the way.

Also, to be fair, most other portable mills will require the operator to walk alongside the mill as well, unless they have spent a good bit of money for upgrades, something that WM offers as well.  The command control or remote control systems totally remove the operator from the area of flying sawdust.

Most of the sawdust that we have been talking about flying around I would assume does not come from the shoot, but rather directly from the cutting area on the deck.  ALL mills will have that issue.  It is not a problem incidental only to WM.  I think that this is the main source of flying sawdust that we are talking about.

As far as which side that the dust shoot is on, stop and think about it.  All band sawmill blades that I have seen have the teeth set in the same direction, meaning that the mills all turn clockwise regardless of the brand.  So, it only stands to reason that the majority of the sawdust is going to fly off in that direction, right?  So, if you were designing a band saw mill head and were to add a dust shoot, which side of the mill would you place it on?  Isn't the obvious answer to place the chute coming off of the mill head immediately behind  the flow of sawdust?  That would mean that the chute would have to be located on the same side that WM places it.  Who would want the sawdust traveling through the whole millhead to get stuck all over the drive wheels, under the band, and filling the mill head with sawdust?  Talk about a sticky sappy mess!

Also, you have to walk on the front side of the mill as well, right?  Do you really want a big pile of sawdust right where you are trying to stage and load your logs?  Do you want to bury waiting logs in sawdust?  Sounds like a bigger mess to me.  And, if you reply by saying that you load the mill with a piece of equipment, then you can also use that equipment to easily move the pile of sawdust on the other side of the mill.

I have to hand it to WM on this one.  I think they placed the sawdust chute in the best place that they could.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

Qweaver


[/quote]
I'm not a rocket scientist but let's face it, the sawdust has to come out at some so how hard is it to put the chute where it belongs? In all reality there's no reason for the mill operator to know each and every day that he's sawing logs by walking through it or choking on it.
Wood Mizer I'm sure you make a great mill but I for one enjoy my health and I will be looking elsewhere.
[/quote]

I looked at my WM LT28 and I can't see how you could make the sawdust come out any other way.  And I would not like operating from the other side.  I also looked at some other mills and they were the same.  If the mill is operated remotely then the operaters station could be put anywhere but not if you have to walk back and forth.  You have to saw toward the stops and the sawdust has to come out on the exit side of the cut.  How could they change that?  I'm quick to complain about poor design but I don't see how they could do this in a better way.  Show us a drawing of the design to fix this.  I don't know how all of the bandmills work.  Give me an example of a mill that does this better.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

beenthere

Quote from: D Hagens on September 21, 2010, 02:37:48 PM

I'm not a rocket scientist but let's face it, the sawdust has to come out at some so how hard is it to put the chute where it belongs? In all reality there's no reason for the mill operator to know each and every day that he's sawing logs by walking through it or choking on it.
Wood Mizer I'm sure you make a great mill but I for one enjoy my health and I will be looking elsewhere.


If you take into consideration a WM mill, where would you put the sawdust chute?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

pineywoods

Quote from: Qweaver on September 21, 2010, 04:18:18 PM

I'm not a rocket scientist but let's face it, the sawdust has to come out at some so how hard is it to put the chute where it belongs? In all reality there's no reason for the mill operator to know each and every day that he's sawing logs by walking through it or choking on it.
Wood Mizer I'm sure you make a great mill but I for one enjoy my health and I will be looking elsewhere.
[/quote]

I looked at my WM LT28 and I can't see how you could make the sawdust come out any other way.  And I would not like operating from the other side.  I also looked at some other mills and they were the same.  If the mill is operated remotely then the operaters station could be put anywhere but not if you have to walk back and forth.  You have to saw toward the stops and the sawdust has to come out on the exit side of the cut.  How could they change that?  I'm quick to complain about poor design but I don't see how they could do this in a better way.  Show us a drawing of the design to fix this.  I don't know how all of the bandmills work.  Give me an example of a mill that does this better.
[/quote]





works for me, if it doesn't, I just add more stove pipe.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Jeff

After trying to wade through all these quotes and theories, I've come up with a pretty good idea. There are a couple guys that should spend some time actually sawing or working with a sawyer for some real world experience before making assumptions here.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

D Hagens




[/quote]

If you take into consideration a WM mill, where would you put the sawdust chute?
[/quote]

  Well I guess from running and operating some of the local saws over the years to get a better feel of them compared to watching videos and reading literature about them I would say that I do know what I like and what certain things I can not understand about some mill manufactures.
From what I've seen with many mills is that they stage and load from one side and they shoot the sawdust away from the operator on the other side. Seems to make sense to me.
The very first time I ever saw a mill in operation was in 2000 in Powell River, it was a Wood Mizer demo. One of the first things that went through my mind was "Why does the operator have to walk through and shovel the sawdust?"
Up the street from me there's a company that builds bigger mills and I've been there a few times and have asked the same question. Their polite answer was "To be honest it doesn't make sense but to be fair its best that you ask them directly"
Reading the posts here there's a few comments by Wood Mizer owners about this issue and maybe my question should be this.
As a Wood Mizer owner if you designed the mill how would YOU address this problem?
I see many innovated ways of adding fans and duct work which is great for a stationary mill but what about the portables?

beenthere

I thought maybe you were just going to move it somewhere else.
The design of the mill likely takes into consideration many of the different factors, only one of which is the sawdust. Others would be direction of the blade travel, power source, weight distribution of the head, and the list goes on and on. I'd imagine everything can't be perfect. Your hangup is sawdust on the ground. WM prolly doesn't lose too may sales based on their sawdust chute. They have so many other good points, I would venture to guess.  :)

For some reason my mind wandered (and wondered) why rockets direct that blast to the ground like they do.  ::) ::)  But that doesn't apply here.  :)  Bad analogy.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Dan_Shade

I haven't found the sawdust on my woodmizer to be a problem.

I can cut well over 1000bf of lumber before the sawdust gets too bad, and it's a 5 minute fix with a grain shovel (i carry one with me), or I'll just take my foot and push it to the side.

It can make a huge mess if you're doing a large job.  I have had to lock my pickup into 4wd a few times to get the mill out.  another time, I really thought I'd have to get the guy to pull me out with his tractor.

If I were sawing stationary, i'd put a blower on it, and pipe the dust to a convenient place for future disposal.

if the wind is blowing, and you're outside sawing, you are likely going to get dust in your eyes.    I think a set of ski googles would help on a breezy day.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Larry

 



This one throws sawdust the proper direction.  Operator stands on the left.  Eventually it starts plowing sawdust on the last few boards, so it's either time to shovel or knock the peak off.  To get em to run the proper direction the motor has to be in front of the blade instead of behind.  And yes I think it is a much better design than conventional.

My new TK has a swing console so I can get away from the sawdust, but I still eat more than I did on the old Kasco.  Just the nature of the beast as the sawdust comes out of the chute higher off the ground.

Still learning on the TK but grade sawing is harder with the console...can't see the board near as well.  The drag back helps if I can get used to it.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

terrifictimbersllc

I mill with remote command station from the front end and only rarely am troubled by sawdust blowing toward me.  Bumping into the help isn't really a problem everyone gets the idea.  I step in and do my end on boards and slabs when necessary and most of my walking otherwise is to stack boards for edging.  Edging and checking front to back tilt on heart center beam sawing is most of my footwork on the most productive days where most of my time is running the mill.  Not sure what if any benefit would come from being closer to the blade.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Chuck White

The sawdust chute on my Wood-Mizer has been modified and depending on the wind direction, I can sometimes blow the sawdust clear of the mill by 8 feet or so.


This pile of sawdust was after sawing about 6,000 - 7,000 board feet.





I'll try and get a couple more this weekend when the sawdust is actually exiting the chute.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

SAWMILL BUDDY

True happiness is being covered in sawdust 8) I just kick the mound in toward the mill and walk on it.

Larry

terrifictimbers, can you see boards well enough to grade saw with your console?

I talked with the owner of this little jewel about grade sawing.  He said that he was the off bearer and used sign language to tell the operator (hired hand) when to turn.  Little different than what is normally seen.



Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

StephenRice

Quote from: Larry on September 21, 2010, 07:32:45 PM




This one throws sawdust the proper direction.  Operator stands on the left.  Eventually it starts plowing sawdust on the last few boards, so it's either time to shovel or knock the peak off.  To get em to run the proper direction the motor has to be in front of the blade instead of behind.  And yes I think it is a much better design than conventional.

My new TK has a swing console so I can get away from the sawdust, but I still eat more than I did on the old Kasco.  Just the nature of the beast as the sawdust comes out of the chute higher off the ground.

Still learning on the TK but grade sawing is harder with the console...can't see the board near as well.  The drag back helps if I can get used to it.


Larry,

That mill is still throwing the sawdust out the same side as the WM.  The only difference that you mentioned is that the operator stands on the opposite side of the mill.  That might work great for a stationary or semi-stationary mill that sits on the ground like that one, but how will it work for one on a trailer that has either hydraulic forks or a loading ramp on it.  I can just imagine an operator tripping over a loading ramp and face-planting himself on the second one.  If you eliminate the loading forks or ramp, then you are back to square one.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

terrifictimbersllc

I get the helpers to show me the underside of the board they're carrying off so I don't have to take a brush to the one remaining on the mill.  Also if it goes onto the loading arms then we flip it over so I can see it.  Didn't think about that since i've never walked with the head.  If they take off the board before you walk back, you can look at the surface on the way back. My mill is a 2001 LT40 with remote fixed to the front so I'm not that far away just beyond the sawdust.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

StephenRice

Great pictures, Chuck!  It doesn't look like you are having any problems at all to speak of.  I would hate to pass up an a great mill like WM just because of a perceived problem with sawdust when it is obvious that it takes little effort to avoid it.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

Larry

Quote from: StephenRice on September 21, 2010, 08:29:37 PM
That mill is still throwing the sawdust out the same side as the WM.

Look again...closer this time as the head is moving away from the viewer.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

StephenRice

Quote from: Larry on September 21, 2010, 08:38:01 PM
Quote from: StephenRice on September 21, 2010, 08:29:37 PM
That mill is still throwing the sawdust out the same side as the WM.

Look again...closer this time as the head is moving away from the viewer.

Okay, I did not notice that the mill was moving away in the picture.  However, wouldn't that mean that the sawdust was traveling all of the way through the top of the housing from the left side to the right (in the picture) before discharging?  If so, then I would think that all of that excess sawdust could not be good for the drive wheels, blade, and other parts in there. 
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

Larry

No, the mill is just like any other mill except everything is backwards.  The band is turned inside out to run backwards...if that makes sense.

Another way to look at it is most small engines only run one direction.  If you turn them 180 degrees the shaft is turning in the opposite direction.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

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