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woodmizer outriggers

Started by northwoods1, September 16, 2010, 02:14:39 PM

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northwoods1

I have an LT40 model woodmizer. Is it just me or does anyone else think the outrigger setup as it comes from the factory leaves a lot to be desired? I'd have a hard time thinking of many things to be critical about when it comes to this mill I really love. I see they offer that fine adjust outrigger system for extra money but would it really be that difficult to have all the mills set up with a decent system? Maybe I'm off base but using that iron rod to lift and lower the mill seems kind of goofy and most of the time the outriggers are not even making equal contact to the mill can move around. And I fine it a particular pain in the rear when trying to lift up the outriggers when moving the mill, first you have to stick the rod in the outrigger and take the weight off the pin, pull the pin out and then somehow pick up the outrigger when there is no place to even grab on to it. Guess it just puzzles me a bit why they chose to go with this particular system. tc

ronwood

northwoods1,

I would say that the outriggers on my Woodmizer is my biggest complaint also. Been trying to come up with a way to use the existing outriggers and make those adjustable. For now I utilize shims of various thickness.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

bugdust

I'm in total agreement with each of you. The outriggers that are accessed from inside the frame are a royal pain. I've actually thought about bolting my own screw jacks to the frame to replace the original. The fine adjustable would be much easier, but at the time I could not justify the cost. :'( They say hind sight is 20-20.
Since I retired I really like work: It fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours.

terrifictimbersllc

The one on the inside 2nd from the front is the worst but close to the 2nd from the back.  Don't lose the SS bar in the snow unless you have a metal detector.  Also don't drive off with it laying on the front of the mill next to the top guide rail.  If you do, leave your window open, so you can hear it fall off on the highway after about 5 miles. Don't ask me how I know this. Better yet get a spare and keep it in the truck of course you can lose that too.  8)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

D Hagens

 
Hi guys, I just watched a vid of an LT 50 with fine adjustments, looks pretty slick and simple.
So I can better understand the way your outriggers are and what the differences between the old and new are can someone explain?

Chuck White

TT;  I did exactly that last year.
I left the jacking handle laying on the mill somewhere and then drove off.
Needless to say, I lost it even though we back tracked looking for it!  It was only a 1½ mile move.
In the meantime, I was sawing for a neighbor and was telling him about it and he said there was one like what I was describing leaning by the door on the outside of his garage and I could have it if I wanted to stop and pick it up!
I was surprised, it was a Wood-Mizer jack handle.
Well, about 2 weeks later I found the original laying in the sand next to the road!
So, now I have two.
I bought one for my FIL's mill about 5 years ago and at that time it cost $18.00
$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Qweaver

I don't like the outriggers either.  They are a RPITA.  I'mgoing to add a trailer jack to the front to help make them easier to adjust.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Chuck White on September 16, 2010, 04:31:19 PM
TT;  I did exactly that last year.
I left the jacking handle laying on the mill somewhere and then drove off.
Needless to say, I lost it even though we back tracked looking for it!  It was only a 1½ mile move.
In the meantime, I was sawing for a neighbor and was telling him about it and he said there was one like what I was describing leaning by the door on the outside of his garage and I could have it if I wanted to stop and pick it up!
I was surprised, it was a Wood-Mizer jack handle.
Well, about 2 weeks later I found the original laying in the sand next to the road!
So, now I have two.
I bought one for my FIL's mill about 5 years ago and at that time it cost $18.00
$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.

i've stopped to take it off the front of the mill twice after leaving home.  seems to stay there pretty well.   also heard it fall off on I-95 going 55 mph and was able to pull over and walk back to get it. now keep it on the floorboard next to driver seat.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

isawlogs

 I have a '93 lt40HD they outriggers are and have been a pain since then , but in there difence , they are a step ahead of some that I have seen/used on other mills. That beeing said , I sure dont understand not having anything better for that long.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

northwoods1

Quote from: Chuck White on September 16, 2010, 04:31:19 PM

I bought one for my FIL's mill about 5 years ago and at that time it cost $18.00
$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.


When I first saw that arrangement they had with the iron rod I thought, well that sure is going to get lost or forgotten somewhere and I bet it won't take long! It amazes me I haven't lost mine yet or drove off with it sitting on the mill. And it doesn't even seem necessary, I mean I can't understand who thought of that system and what are the possible advantages? Simple, easy, cheap?... I wouldn't describe it as any of those. What would really be nice is if they were infinitely adjustable. And easy to raise and lower with no parts to loose. I don't remember how much the quick adjust option cost but I remember it seemed kind of pricey to me.

wwsjr

I have an LT40 with Remote on front. I found it too heavy for me to lift and hookup to truck without help. I mounted a screw jack by the hitch so I did not have to lift, I am old and my back is not what it once was. To setup, I position the mill, place 4' level on rail, lower the hitch end slightly below level. Move to the rear, drop jacks and snug up with the bar. I try to always carry a few 1" and 1 1/2" square blocks to use on ground to even up the jacks. Sometimes I use a small square point shovel to remove dirt. After the rear jacks are set, I go back to front, jack up to slightly above level and repeat the same for the front jacks. I then usually raise the screw jack until pressure is off. I have found this method works real well for me. I have never lost a bar out of the holder on the loading side rear jack when the jack is raised for travel.   
Retired US Army, Full Time Sawyer since 2001. 2013 LT40HD Super with 25HP 3 Phase, Command Control with Accuset2. ED26 WM Edger, Ford 3930 w/FEL, Prentice Log Loader. Stihl 311, 170 & Logrite Canthooks. WM Million BF Club Member.

beenthere

Quote from: Chuck White on September 16, 2010, 04:31:19 PM
...................$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.


Why buy it, rather than just make one?  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

terrifictimbersllc

It's stainless steel for some reason, maybe it's stiffer? 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Slabs

The bar is probably "drill rod".  I don't really know what it is but I have some and it's very strong.  I don't know anything short of drill rod that would substitute.  It's available from Enco-3 feet for $11.03(5/8")

Yes, I find the operation of the jacks difficult but that may be from not having to practice but a couple of times every few years.  They are probably the most durable jacks made.  Indestructable would be an understatement.  As for coupling to tow vehicle, the front jack does well for a tongue jack if all the others have been stowed.

Cuss 'em and enjoy 'em.
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

isawlogs

I lost mine a long time ago, I did not call to see how much to replace the thing as I knew that it would more than likely be lost again. I took out my connecting bar from my high steel tool belt and used it.
  It is a tapared pointy bar with the other end being flat to use as a pinch/pry bar the pointy end was used to put in the holes of the beam and the colum as you where doing the steel erecting. With the bar in the hole , you could get a bolt out and into the other bolt hole and after tightening you went on the the next connection the crane brought up.
  It is still the same connecting bar that I took out of my belt 15 years ago that I use today.
 
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: wwsjr on September 16, 2010, 05:58:50 PM
I have an LT40 with Remote on front. I found it too heavy for me to lift and hookup to truck without help. I mounted a screw jack by the hitch so I did not have to lift, I am old and my back is not what it once was. To setup, I position the mill, place 4' level on rail, lower the hitch end slightly below level. Move to the rear, drop jacks and snug up with the bar. I try to always carry a few 1" and 1 1/2" square blocks to use on ground to even up the jacks. Sometimes I use a small square point shovel to remove dirt. After the rear jacks are set, I go back to front, jack up to slightly above level and repeat the same for the front jacks. I then usually raise the screw jack until pressure is off. I have found this method works real well for me. I have never lost a bar out of the holder on the loading side rear jack when the jack is raised for travel.   

On my list of things to do is similar what wwsjr has done. Since the hydraulic box is right there, I plan to add a bang cylinder right beside the front jack. I have wallered out the holes in several of the jacks from using the bar to lift and lower the jacks. When the holes get wallered out the jacks get harder to set up as well. These jack are fine for a semi stationary mill but as far as for a completely portable outfit they fell way short of my expectations. I drive wedges under the legs to fine tune the adjustment, lost 3 wedges on one job. That was the only time that I have lost any. I keep the bar in the front jack so it is handy as I start with the front jack and end with the front jack.   
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

AvT

I just got some quotes on a couple of Woodmizer mills and this is what I'd have to pay for the outrigger option.  After reading LARRYs Timberking B2000 thread I'm seriously looking at what it would cost to get one of those babys up here.  If I get one, Timberking will owe Larry commission :)

FAO-KIT SET OF SIX HAND CRANK FINE ADJUST OUTRIGGER JACK LEGS $1,049.00 CAD
Wannabe sawyer, Cord King M1820 firewood processor Palax KS35 Ergo firewood Processor, 5403 John Deere, Bunch of other farm equipment,   LT70 Remote Woodmizer.  All good things but the best things in life are free.. If you don't believe me.. hold your breath for 2 minutes

DGK

I am so tired of those jacks and setting up/taking down, that I am planning to go stationary.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Dan_Shade

the outriggers are a little bit of a hassle, but I don't find them overly cumbersome.

A trick I learned somewhere along the way (I think from Marty Parsons) was to use two shingles to compensate for any fine tuning that is desired.

I have found if you use the weight of the sawhead to set the saw up, it makes a very quick job of setting up the mill.  In fact, I can have both tires off the ground (if I want) and the mill set up level in about 20 minutes or so from getting to a job site.

I think a lot of folks get frustrated with the legs because they don't use the sawhead as counterweight for the frame.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Dan_Shade

Here's how I set the mill up.

1) drop leg at the tongue

2) unhook from truck, possibly leaving safety chains attached depending on terrain.

3) start mill and let it warm up

4) walk around the saw and  drop the rest of the legs without trying to make the pin click into a hole

5) get the bar and make the forward two of the mid section click into holes

6) raise up the front leg by one or two holes so it's a few inches off the ground

7) run saw head to tongue end of the saw.

***This is the trick***
Since I raised the front leg by a hole or two, and the sawhead is over the tongue, the tail of the saw is "floating"  I go back and level up the mill side to side with the back 2 posts of the 4 midsections (not the single one at the end of the mill).

8) I drop the back post and then raise it up a hole or two so it is a few inches off the ground

9) run the saw head to the back, making the front of the mill float

10) set the front two legs of the mid section so that the mill is solid

11) run the saw head to about the middle of the frame.  At this point, the 4 center legs should all be solid on the ground (which may take shimming the legs)

12) set the front leg so it is solid

13) set the back leg so it is solid

14) lower lift arms

15) start sawing

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Brucer

The original legs are simple, reliable, and low maintenance. Don't forget the original WM mills were manual mills without all the bells and whistles we see nowadays.

Before I move the mill, I always make sure I have a bunch of shims -- 1/8", 1/4", 1/4". etc. That makes it easier to level the mill. Use a system similar to the one Dan Shade uses and setting up the mill becomes straightforward. There's a storage slot for the handle on one of the back outriggers -- so use it! Before I put the mill on the road, I do a walk-around, making sure the outriggers are all up, the clamp mechanism is up, the safety chains attached, the lights all working, and the handle in its slot.

I've seen the second generation fine-adjust outriggers in action and they are truly simple. I don't move my mill around much these days so there wasn't much point in adding them. But I did replace the front and back outriggers with FAO's so I could fine tune the front-back level without messing with shims..

So a set of FAO's costs $1000 extra. Have you noticed that the price of the mills is dropping? Perhaps they should have kept the price the same and made the FAO's standard.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Chuck White

Quote from: Dan_Shade on September 16, 2010, 11:44:00 PM
the outriggers are a little bit of a hassle, but I don't find them overly cumbersome.

A trick I learned somewhere along the way (I think from Marty Parsons) was to use two shingles to compensate for any fine tuning that is desired.

I have found if you use the weight of the sawhead to set the saw up, it makes a very quick job of setting up the mill.  In fact, I can have both tires off the ground (if I want) and the mill set up level in about 20 minutes or so from getting to a job site.

I think a lot of folks get frustrated with the legs because they don't use the sawhead as counterweight for the frame.

Exactly right Dan!
It is 10 times easier to setup if you use the saw-head as a counterweight.
In other words, if you're adjusting the front, move the head to the rear, if you're adjusting the back, move the head to the front.
Makes it a whole lot simpler.  :)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

woodbowl

Wow! I don't think that I have ever been so amazed at the type of response from a WM topic. Most of the dislikes mentioned here are the exact reasons I do like the WM jacks. I recognize the annoying features stated, but those disadvantages are actually advantages to me. I do this for a living, setting up and taking down several time each week and I don't think I could ask for a better jack system. No, I don't have the fine tune jacks. I don't shovel dirt from under the jacks and I've never lost a bar. (knock on logs) The jacks are quick, easy, strong and simple. The only problem I can see is the one mentioned by wwsjr. I too have had some back trouble in the past and that speaks for itself. A piece of pipe used as an extention handle on the bar solves those problems.

The way I set up is as follows. If on a hillside, the mast should be reasonably plumb so I'm looking for a dip to drive the high wheel into. Driving onto a 2X on the low wheel usually levels things pretty good. Don't want to dig at all if possible. I disconnect from the truck and set the hitch jack with the beam level, sometimes one hole less. (depending on how fast I want the head to return) I bring the head to the hitch end and jack up the 2 back jacks raising the mill, but not clearing the wheels off the ground. The jacks are either too loose or too tight you say? Well of course, it happens every time. Now, take that bar you've been cussin' and with a side swing, glance the top of the dirt directly under the jack. Drop the jack and glance some more if needed. Be carefull or you will knock out too much. Backfill dirt will settle more.

So how do you raise the mill without clearing the wheels off the ground and not have the top of the jack sticking up over the bed rail? After years of creating new hemiroids  to clear the wheels off the ground, and realizing that there was no situation that would require me to use those extra few inches, I cut the top of the jacks off. I was so iffy about it that I would only cut off one hole to try for a while untill I found what worked for me.

Then I move the head to the back of the mill, drop the #3 jack (from the hitch end) and set it firm without tilting the bed backward. Drop #2 jack and let float if the logs are small or set it if they are large. I'm usually leveled and ready to run within 5 minutes before disconnecting from the truck unless there are unusual circumstances. Since I don't clear my wheels from the ground, settling is more obvious and I tweek when needed.

Is this the way WM says to do it? No. In my ever changing situations with terrains and soils, this is what works best for me. Without a doubt, concrete and firm ground with raised wheels, offer the most rigid and non adjusting setup.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: woodbowl on September 17, 2010, 11:40:29 AM
Wow! I don't think that I have ever been so amazed at the type of response from a WM topic.
Yes it's been an interesting exchange with lots of opinions.  Don't know if it's true but I heard once that one of the highest number of responses ever received by Ann Landers concerned the topic of which way the toilet paper roll ought to be placed in the holder!!!   Maybe this topic is like that one!!! :D :D :D
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

isawlogs


  I am of those that think that the roll should come up and around and the sheet face outwards.
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Dan_Shade

I keep the roll behind the seat of my truck
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

backwoods sawyer

One thing to remember is that not all of use are running a WM mill just like what every one else has so the weight distribution is not the same on all mills. I use the same method as Dan Shade however I have 300 lb of tongue weight and step #9 just dose not quite happen.
Course it don't matter much which way the TP roll faces if it never gets used.
Same with the jacks on the mill if they never get used then it don't matter much, use them everyday and it don't take long to figure out that there is a better way of doing things. Kinda like stuffing pills down a horse's throat when you could just add it to the grain.

Something else about these jacks is there tendency to fail, especially the front jack. With the weight of the saw head on and off the front of the mill the pin works its way out and when the head comes back the front of the mill is sitting on the ground. This has happened to me once and to another mill locally. WM sent me some add on keepers that flip up and help to hold the pin. Even with them on I had a middle leg drop while towing the mill across a cow pasture.

Is there room for improvement on these jacks?
Absolutely.
Do the fine adjustment jacks address the issues that are being posted here?
No, they just replace a $5.00 wedge.     
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

DR_Buck

I use Dan Shade's method as well.  It works great for me.    The only problem I've had with the outriggers is I've lost the cap off the front one twice now and it fills with sawdust and bark.  When that happens, the handle is hard to get into the holes and sometimes the pin will not seat.

Tonight while I was hooking up to the truck for a job tomorrow morning I raised the tongue end way up and removed the front outrigger completely to knock out the sawdust so I could adjust it.    It works great again.
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Magicman

I keep a few caps on the truck.  Even with the caps on, I occasionally have to just remove the jack completely and wash them out.  That's just part of it.   ;)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

StephenRice

Maybe I am just mistaken, but wouldn't it be a lot easier to just mount some HD trailer jacks mounted on swivel plates?  Of course, they couldn't be the cheap flimsy ones, but some of those heavy duty ones that could easily swivel up for transport sound like an easy solution to a seemingly big hassle of a setup process.  They might cost a little bit, but nowhere near the thousand dollars WM wants for their upgrade jacks. 

Harbor Freight has 2,000 lb. top-wind swivel mount jacks for sale for $19.99 each.  Seems like a simple solution to an aggravating problem to me.  Am I missing something here?
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

Gary_C

Quote from: StephenRice on September 20, 2010, 02:26:01 PM
  Am I missing something here?

Yep. Try mounting one of those top-wind swivel mount jacks on that frame and not saw the top-wind mechanism off or bend it with the first large log you roll on the deck.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

customsawyer

I have to go with woodbowl on this one in that I don't think there is a jack out there that would work any better or hold up as long. I have added a couple of extra jacks on the front of my stationary mill that have the side wind on them so that I wouldn't cut them off and I will just tell you that they don't hold up to the regular pounding that the WM jacks take. I don't think I own a single piece of equipment that I haven't made modifications on to make it work for me and the way that I use it.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Bill Gaiche

StephenRice, I have those very jacks on my home made mill, 6 ea. They arent the quality that i would use on a larger mill and especally if i was trying to make a living with it. They work just fine for me because its no way as heavy as the LT28 and larger. But they have jacks on the market that will work. Just cost more $$.bg

Bill Gaiche

Did i just miss some kind of warning? bg

Bodger

Magicman, do you take the whole assembly off to remove the jack post? 
Work's fine for killing time but it's a shaky way to make a living.

Magicman

Quote from: Bodger on September 20, 2010, 09:00:31 PM
Magicman, do you take the whole assembly off to remove the jack post? 

Yes,  there are only 4 bolts holding the jack assembly on.  Really, that is the only way that you can empty the inside 4 jacks.  There is a hole in the bottom of the jack pad which aids with washing them out.

I saw 100% portable, and I have no problem with the WM jacks.  Sure, sometimes I have to dig down, sometimes I have to slip a board under one, sometimes I even have to pull a tire up on a 2X12.  but that is no big deal.  I carry several and don't always find all of them when I move.



I remove a square plug which is saved and returned to the hole when I finish the saw job.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DR_Buck

Quote from: Magicman on September 20, 2010, 10:38:52 PM





Magicman,    Looks like the Wood-Mizer could use  a little paint.  smiley_safety_glasses


Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

StephenRice

Quote from: Bill Gaiche on September 20, 2010, 08:13:48 PM
StephenRice, I have those very jacks on my home made mill, 6 ea. They arent the quality that i would use on a larger mill and especally if i was trying to make a living with it. They work just fine for me because its no way as heavy as the LT28 and larger. But they have jacks on the market that will work. Just cost more $$.bg

Obviously, the right jacks would have to be used.  I think that they would have to be at least 2,000#, I would imagine.  The 1,000# jacks would be too flimsy.  I have a 5,000# jack on my dump trailer, and that would be more than strong enough, even massive overkill.  That is the size used on large gooseneck trailers.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

backwoods sawyer

The biggest hassle with the jacks is that the front jack is used several times during the set up process and with the added weight of the command control on the front of the mill it can take a couple try's to get it to lift just one hole. Installing a hydraulic cylinder that swivels out of the way just for the purpose of lifting and lowering the front of the mill during set up would make set up of the larger heavier mills much easier and safer. Let that bar slip out of the hole and see how quick the front of the mill is sitting in the dirt! However to be able to use the hydraulics the head has to be at the front of the mill. However that issue could be taken care of in a couple of way as has been discussed in other posts by adding a second hot rail or running a heavy duty battery wire thru the agus track. The over all cost to do the up grade would be relatively inexpensive. Not to mention that the front jack would not have wallered out holes that allows the pins to fail because they cannot sit squarely in the holes. Besides they are touted as being hydraulic mills and yet the set up is still very much manual.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

terrifictimbersllc

Would just putting a fine adjust outrigger on front help out with most of the problems?    I think the jacks are very effective for what they are.  However my biggest difficulty is probably with the second (inside) one from the front on the main  rail, if I have to apply much force to it then the angle for me makes operating it very difficult.  Also I have to use the front one on the outside sometimes to raise and lower the front of the mill, if the ground is sloping towards the back of the mill, the front outrigger needs to be set very close to the ground and runs out of holes. Seems like both problems would be solved by being able to crank the very front one up and down over its full length.  Still leaves the problem of having to dig out enough for the second ones back so they go below the bed rails.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

customsawyer

Backwoods Sawyer I don't know about your mill since it is a prototype mill but on the remote LT70 I have there is a ground strip on the back of the mill so you can operate your hyd. from the both ends.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: customsawyer on September 21, 2010, 08:11:37 AM
Backwoods Sawyer I don't know about your mill since it is a prototype mill but on the remote LT70 I have there is a ground strip on the back of the mill so you can operate your hyd. from the both ends.
That was a feature that was added after mine was built. Although a full-length hot rail would solve the issue as well, and they are available in 20' sections from local sawmill scrap yards.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

StephenRice

Pardon me if I am wrong, but from looking closely at the pics of those fine adjust outriggers in the WM catalog, they are nothing more than top-wind jacks with adjustable (extendable) legs.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

Magicman

A little more than that.   The initial adjustment is "quick set" as seen in the last part of the video.  That is one heavy duty jack. 

http://www.woodmizer.com/us/sawmills/options/fineadjustoutriggers.aspx

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Qweaver

I looked at the WM jacks today and they are good looking units.  But at $209 each X 6 = $1254 plus shipping...I think I'll just put a top wind 5000 lb drop leg jack on each end of the saw.  This will make it very easy to adjust the standard outriggers.  I ordered 2 of them today @ $85 each with free shipping.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

StephenRice

Not really, MM.  I just looked at the video and they worked exactly like they looked in the picture.  They are like mini versions of the jack that I have on the front of my dump trailer.  My jack is a 5K#.  The ones on the WM FAO look to be maybe half of that.  Someone is manufacturing those jacks, and I doubt that they are doing it just for WM.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

D Hagens

Quote from: D Hagens on September 16, 2010, 04:07:52 PM

Hi guys, I just watched a vid of an LT 50 with fine adjustments, looks pretty slick and simple.
So I can better understand the way your outriggers are and what the differences between the old and new are can someone explain?


   Hello guys :) Can we back up the boat a bit and give me an answer here please :)

Qweaver

Quote from: D Hagens on September 21, 2010, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: D Hagens on September 16, 2010, 04:07:52 PM

Hi guys, I just watched a vid of an LT 50 with fine adjustments, looks pretty slick and simple.
So I can better understand the way your outriggers are and what the differences between the old and new are can someone explain?


   Hello guys :) Can we back up the boat a bit and give me an answer here please :)

The easiest thing for you to do would be to go to the WM online site and look at the pictures.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

D Hagens


I did but an explanation from one that uses them and has issues about them would be better. :) On the site they don't knock their own products. :D Hence the reason for asking here. :)

StephenRice

I have to make a humble pie retraction here.  I just went out to look at my dump trailer jack, and it is a massive Fulton 12K# unit, NOT a 5K# jack as I thought.  I also did a little looking around on the net, and it appears that the WM FAO setup is made up of Bulldog top wind jacks in the 5K, 8K, or 10K class, or something similar.  The 10K jacks can be purchased online for about $111 each from Trailer Parts Superstore.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

StephenRice

Quote from: D Hagens on September 21, 2010, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: D Hagens on September 16, 2010, 04:07:52 PM

Hi guys, I just watched a vid of an LT 50 with fine adjustments, looks pretty slick and simple.
So I can better understand the way your outriggers are and what the differences between the old and new are can someone explain?


   Hello guys :) Can we back up the boat a bit and give me an answer here please :)

The FAO are crank up jacks, where the regular style are simply manual outriggers where you have to snake a rod into the holes from both the inner and outer tubes and lift the mill yourself with back power.  Watch the WM video with the guy adjusting the regular outriggers and you will see how it can easily put you into the doctor or chiropractor's office with a herniated disc.
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

Chris Burchfield

I've not had any problem jacking and having the saw head away from me.  On occasion I have used a farm jack cause the leveling required more than the jack would travel.  I used 2'X8"X8" to shim with.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

Chuck White

Quote from: Chris Burchfield on September 21, 2010, 06:52:09 PM
I've not had any problem jacking and having the saw head away from me.  On occasion I have used a farm jack cause the leveling required more than the jack would travel.  I used 2'X8"X8" to shim with.

Me too Chris.

Sometimes I'll jack up one side or the other in uneven ground and put a couple of 2X's under the tire, let it down and go from there.

No problem at all jacking if I move the saw-head to the opposite end of the mill.  ;)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

terrifictimbersllc

If the front end is hard to jack up make sure the jack in the rear isn't down. 8) 8) 8)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

MartyParsons

FAO are manufactured by WM.
I have thought about doing a video on how to use the standard jacks.
Some owners make it hard. Everytime a non owner helps set up a mill they pull all of the outriggers before moving the saw head. I use the saw head weight to help. Some of you have stated that you do this.
If you have trouble with the inside pin use the front or rear outriger to set the inner outrigger. Drop the inner outrigger ( pin not engauged in hole) Lift up the rear outrigger till the pin on the inner outrigger pops in. Set the rear outrigger. Move the saw head to the rear and check the front outriggers.
Remember the mill is rated at 4500 lbs.
There are some safety precautions needed when setting the outriggers. Please dont sitck fingers in the pin holes and drop the leg.  :o  Sometimes the rear leg needs to be lowered to prevent the mill hitch end from raising up. Wheels need to be chocked to prevent rolling. ( I have learned the hard way on this one, almost lost a new mill over a large hill doing a delivery)  :-[

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on September 21, 2010, 08:40:07 PM
If the front end is hard to jack up make sure the jack in the rear isn't down. 8) 8) 8)
The jack in the rear is the last thing that gets set.
On "My Mill" I already have heavy tongue weight when the mill is setting on the wheels. To raise the mill to the operating position the head weight makes setting the front jacks to the first height not a problem, bring the head to the front and the rear height can be set at the final height. But to bring the front end up to final height even with the head all the way to the rear of the mill something better then the present jack is needed. The rear set of jacks are well behind the axel changing the amount of weight that has to be lifted at the tongue in the final step from 300lb to closer to 500lb this is the step where the little bar will slip out of the whole and allow the front of the mill slam down. I use a longer bar for this step but you still have to flip up the keeper, turn the pin and pull the pin out while holding the weight of the mill off of the pin and my arms are only so long. Then lift the mill two more clicks to bring it up to level. 
Now spent the day handling lumber and tailings and repeat this process of taking the mill down, bringing it home and setting it up again.
Is making this jack easier to operate going to make me more money? Probably not!
One thing that I did learn while working in the production mill is that when you bring the engineers, mill wrights, saw fillers and operator all together prior to doing an up grade, is that in the end you end up with a piece of equipment that is more user friendly and easier to work on, and there is always room for improvement.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Dangerous_Dan

Here's my fix. It's cheap and easy.





I drilled another set of holes 2.063 inches down from the original set.





Machined another pin, found a spring, washers and a cotter pin that fit and installed them in the new hole. This reduces the vertical adjustment step from 1.375 to .688 inches.

When 1 pin is in the other is out. You only need to pull 1 of the pins and lift, the other is already out and will pop in after the jack extends 11/16 of and inch.









Only 1 jack has been modified so far and it still needs to be fully tested but it looks promising as a partial fix that reduces some of the aggravation of setup.

I wonder what WM wants for 6 of the adjustment pins, springs, washers and cotter pin assemblies?

Patent Pending  ;D

DD
First you make it work, then you trick it out!

pnyberg

I hope you applied for a patent on that before posting.

--Peter
No longer milling

Magicman

Then you gotta pull both of them to raise the jack to the travel position?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

northwoods1


Why would he need to apply for a patent ??? , being his mill I would think he could do whatever he wants with it? Making the outriggers infinitely adjustable somehow is a good thing. The PITA part about setting up is having to shovel out or shim up under the outriggers to get the mill stable. With the pins locking in every 5/8" or so instead of every 1 3/8" of an inch the need for shimming or digging would be reduced. Looks like a good idea to me :)

customsawyer

The only trouble I have had is that I broke the rod/jack handle once but that might have been my fault for not having the weight in the right place.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Jeff

Quote from: northwoods1 on November 09, 2010, 08:10:34 AM

Why would he need to apply for a patent ???

I'm pretty sure it was said as an exclamation that it was a great idea.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30


terrifictimbersllc

Being granted a patent on an invention allows the patent holder to prevent others from practicing the patented invention,  currently for a period of 20 years, in the country granting the patent.   Patents are generally a very good thing for society, as they provide an incentive to inventors to spend the time, energy and money to invent things, and to be able to openly share the details of the invention with, in exchange for an exclusive right to be able to profit from that invention for a limited period of time.  After the patent expires then anyone can practice the invention without permission of the inventor.   An alternative to patenting inventions is to keep the details a secret (like the formula for Coke), but usually people can take an invention and figure out how to copy it. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Burlkraft

I got some pictures somewhere I'll dig up or maybe I'll take some more.......

But I put 3 hydraulic cylinders on my LT28.
They lift the mill up and I set and shim the stands, let the mill down and I am all ready to go.

I have to go to town now, but I'll do them pics later.
Why not just 1 pain free day?

Dangerous_Dan

Yes, Magic Man you would have to pull both to raise the jack leg.  :(
And I've got a fix for that too.  ;)
Maybe you will like it  :) maybe not  >:(
This is a simple part I made that pulls the pin out and locks it in the released position.
I made it the same on both ends so it can flip either way. Makes a good T-handle too.









Hope this mod helps you guys that were complaining about holding the pin and lifting the leg at the same time, I feel felt your pain.

I like the simple and robust design of the WM jacks over screw type jacks but they apparently left something to be desired. IMO they just needed alittle extra reengineering to make them a little more operator friendly. Some seem to think they are good enough the way they are, maybe I should just  :-X

DD
First you make it work, then you trick it out!

paul case

Quote from: scrout on November 09, 2010, 10:53:54 AM


https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=28-1746&catname=

These look cool...
just think though for less than the cost of 2 of those you could buy 6 of those sidewind jacks. my luck is just when i get the electric ones all rigged up all my batteries would be dead.  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Magicman

Quote from: Dangerous_Dan on November 09, 2010, 08:08:56 PM
Yes, Magic Man you would have to pull both to raise the jack leg.  :(  And I've got a fix for that too.  ;) Maybe you will like it  :) maybe not  >:( 

That's what I'm talking about.  Yes I like it !!!  Very much.  Outstanding.  I would have liked it even more on my mill today.   ;)

Did I say that I liked it  ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

pnyberg

Quote from: Jeff on November 09, 2010, 10:35:36 AM
I'm pretty sure it was said as an exclamation that it was a great idea.

Exactly so.  Sorry if that wasn't obvious.
No longer milling

northwoods1

Quote from: pnyberg on November 09, 2010, 08:33:55 PM
Quote from: Jeff on November 09, 2010, 10:35:36 AM
I'm pretty sure it was said as an exclamation that it was a great idea.

Exactly so.  Sorry if that wasn't obvious.

No need to apologize I'm just to stupid to have realized it.

Dangerous Dan, those modifications are really quite ingenious! :)

Peter Drouin

Nice mods on the jacks. But for me less time .Put on the new WM screw type jacks an your  sawing! and set up is fast   8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

terrifictimbersllc

Only real trouble I have with the WM jacks is on an asphalt or cement hill.  Also don't like digging holes in someone's yard for the jack to clear the rails when on a hill but hey, that's where their logs are.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Magicman

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on November 10, 2010, 09:21:58 PM
Also don't like digging holes in someone's yard for the jack to clear the rails

You gotta keep those square plugs and put them back when the sawing is complete.   ;)



Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

terrifictimbersllc

Yes that's right  put a bunch of sawdust under them if there's no dirt and put it in on top.  Nobody gets a broken ankle.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Dale Hatfield

Ill trade my stationary legs  for for the adjustable units and pay the shipping .
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

Peter Drouin

Dale don,t forget the top locks.your going to like them a lot less work!!! more time sawing  have fun  8) 8) 8) 8)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Ljohnsaw

Funny no one has mentioned this.  I see LOTS of hydraulic add-ons that are pretty ingenious!  I'm surprised no one has taken the auto-leveling unit off of a big Class A RV and retro'd it to a mill.  Just press the "level" button and DONE! ;) :D
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Kbeitz

Quote from: ljohnsaw on October 18, 2015, 02:25:06 PM
Funny no one has mentioned this.  I see LOTS of hydraulic add-ons that are pretty ingenious!  I'm surprised no one has taken the auto-leveling unit off of a big Class A RV and retro'd it to a mill.  Just press the "level" button and DONE! ;) :D

Big $$$$$ they are....
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

starmac

Well you guys can call me a dummy, but the first time I set my mill up, I didn't even realize the outriggers were their own jacks, so just used a handyman.
Looking it over I thought what is this rod here, what does it do and why in the world is there just one of them, lol the light went on, so no more handy man.
So when I decided to move the mill (it was set up in my shop) I used the factory jacks, now this was hard, so in my infinite wisdom, I says to myself that the saw head will make a great counter weight and it did, easy peasy.
Now I need to hook back to the hitch, but the front is too low (this part scared me) so I decide to move the sawhead back and again easy peasy right, well I had the back leg raised all the way, and it was a little too easy, actually way too east, the saw head took off and I couldn't even think about holding it so the tail hit the concrete, the scary part was I didn't know if it would stop there or continue on off the tracks, wrecking my new to me mill that I had owned a couple of hours. lol Belive me this happened a lot faster than it takes to tell about it, much less type it.
I took it outside and set it up and took it down a couple of times using the head as a counterweight to get my method down, now, after that I have zero problems with the jacks, except this thread has shown me that there is suppose to be caps on the jscks to keep bark and sawdust out (they were pretty full when I picked it up) and I will probably do the t handle mods like those shown to hold the pin out. I have other jacks set up similat that you twist the pin on.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Jim_Rogers

I think many have at times let the head get away from us and slid down the track and raise up the hitch end. I know I have.

On my LT 30 I only have five outriggers. To raise the back two I leave the saw head at the hitch end. Then after they are up I move the head back to the travel peg and usually lower it down onto the peg for safe keeping.

Then I raise up the hitch end outrigger. This automatically raises up the other two near the bed and make it easier to raise them up by hand.

With the hitch end out rigger up I can then back the truck under the hitch.

To set up I usually do the opposite way. But use a level to make sure it fairly level, if possible.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Magicman

Yup the sawhead is your friend when setting up.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

petefrom bearswamp

I'm totally stationary on a nice flat concrete slab and still have to re do the jacks on occasion from carelessness with my tractor in loading big logs or slamming the head back inadvertently.
I use rubber truck bed  mat pieces under the jack bases  both on the concrete and on top of the shims where possible to lessen movement but it still happens then I re level with different thickness shims.
I also feel that the rubber helps lessen the possibility of the posts failing due to excessive shock.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

taylorsmissbeehaven

This is the first time I have read this thread. I must admit that I was pretty discouraged with the jacks when I first got my mill. I kept my mouth shut and figured it was just me because I did not hear/read any others complaints. Over a couple of weeks I learned the tricks that are talked about here. Now I like them much better! My only complaint now is that the hitch on my tractor is very low. getting the mill down onto it often results in the bar stuck between the jack and the ground. This is frustrating but gives me an excuse to buy that three point hitch Ive been wanting! JMTC Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

WV Sawmiller

Jim/MM,

   I learned the hard way about the head movement when setting up on a job one time. Let it slide all the way to the rear end. Fortunately no damage and was able to pull it down. Now when I set up or break down I leave the tail end and front end outrigger up about 6" from the ground until I get the others in place or get the tongue on the ball of my truck. I have not put a trailer jack on the tongue like some have but have thought of adding a little extra weight in the back to help reduce the tongue weight.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

I think about the the first thing that I did was to run the sawhead to the back without the outrigger down.  I immediately remembered the previous owner warning me not to ever do that.  I did not remember his warning but I remember my experience.  That is not something that you ever forget or want to do again.   :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Nomad

Quote from: Magicman on October 27, 2015, 09:57:48 PM
I think about the the first thing that I did was to run the sawhead to the back without the outrigger down.  I immediately remembered the previous owner warning me not to ever do that.  I did not remember his warning but I remember my experience.  That is not something that you ever forget or want to do again.   :o

     I did that shortly after I started sawing with the WM too.  Like you, no damage...  But I'll never make that mistake again! :D
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Tom L

I raised the front of the mill once on purpose, by running the head back, it worked ok

the dumbest thing I have done was to try to raise the hitch end, with the rear jack down.

broke my back for 10 minutes before I realized it was down

Chuck White

Quote from: Magicman on October 27, 2015, 09:57:48 PM
I think about the the first thing that I did was to run the sawhead to the back without the outrigger down.  I immediately remembered the previous owner warning me not to ever do that.  I did not remember his warning but I remember my experience.  That is not something that you ever forget or want to do again.   :o

The only thing worse than that would be to do it with people watching.   :-[

Whenever my mill is unhitched, the rear outrigger is lowered to within a couple of inches of the ground!   smiley_thumbsup
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Magicman

I did mine in my own driveway the day I brought the sawmill home.  :-\  No one was watching and I do not remember how I got it back up.   ::)   ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

barbender

...and when you make this mistake, even a 280 pound man trying to hold the hitch end down doesn't work :o  ;D
Too many irons in the fire

hunz

Thought I was the only greenhorn this happened to. Haha. I never had that problem with my lt-35. I found out quick the lt-40 with a heavy diesel engine required big boy pants to be on and tightened down!
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

terrifictimbersllc

Just tell observers that the mill can saw trees that are still standing.  :D  Happened to me once. Think I managed to jack up the rear end until the head would go up the track.   Could always block the tires and pull the hitch down with the truck and a chain.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Chuck White

I've only done that once (I think  ::) ) and the rear outrigger must have been down a little because the hitch wasn't all that far off the ground and I just used the return drum switch on the control box and didn't seem to have a problem.

That's when I made it a habit to alway lower the rear outrigger to within 2 inches or so of the ground!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Saga Dan

I would have to admit now that a few months have passed since my event occurred with setting up my mill.  The ground was a little uneven and I could not get the front outrigger to match a hole to unhook the mill from the truck.  I stupidly did not put the back outrigger down before I moved the mill head to the end.  I though this would be great I could use a little bit of the weight to jack the young up a little bit.  I should have know by the amount of pressure it was taking to release the ball suppler that this was not going to end well.  Fortunately the tailgate of my truck only had a silver dollar size of bare metal exposed in the process.  It was fun to use physics to move the mill head and get the outriggers correctly in place.

To the original post topic...  I feel more confident in having the OEM outriggers on the mill and down when leaving my mill in any place other than in storage.  The people that know how to operate them typically will not be stealing your mill.  The ones that are looking for a free toy typically do not have the first clue in operating the standard outriggers to take your mill.
2014 LT40 Manual; XP346; XP395; Logosol M8

WV Sawmiller

Saga Den,

   There have been other threads on here about helping prevent theft of your mill. Leaving the head forward helps ensure the people unfamiliar with your mill can't lift it to connect to the ball hitch. Leaving a large cant or log clamped to the mill helps and maybe a log on the arms, if hydraulic. I also leave a tongue lock on mine plus I am pretty diligent about not leaving my mill where it is unduly exposed.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Wherever I am sawing is where my sawmill sleeps.  Farmers around here have cows, gates, tractors, dogs, and shotguns.  The only thing to do each morning is take the sawdust scoop and remove the cow plops.   :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

Quote from: Magicman on October 29, 2015, 09:17:43 PM
Wherever I am sawing is where my sawmill sleeps.  Farmers around here have cows, gates, tractors, dogs, and shotguns.  The only thing to do each morning is take the sawdust scoop and remove the cow plops.    :o

How true!!!

There isn't much that's any nosier than cattle, and when they're in that area, they'll leave their mark.

One other thing that I do when milling where there are cattle, is to roll logs up tight to the mill, and all the way to the log stack, that way the cattle aren't leaving their mark between the logs!  ;)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

isawlogs

 I leave mine also  where it sits at any farmers, I do though now cover all wires and make sure the cows can't get near any of them. We have road salt and that stays on the mill..... they will lick it and chew it, Had the light wires chewed off the mill and had them scrape the paint for salt.....Now I take logs and baricade to mill so they can't get to it, Only need a few logs to keep them away.  :)
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

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