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At what length do you charge?

Started by Todd Tittle, September 10, 2010, 10:54:47 PM

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gunman63

now granted this would take a little time, but very little i think, if theres a few logs over length, wouldnt take the sawyer long to cut a cookie off the long ones, if of course the guy that bucked them just figured close enough to 8'6". mite save u time in the long run.

Magicman

Yup, with come customers, squaring up is necessary, and I always leave them at least 6" over.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Dan_Shade

boards stack better if the logs are all cut to the same length, it keeps the ends properly stickered.



Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Chuck White

I've had a customer or two that had logs "obviously" over-length.

When I mentioned it to him, he said to just "go ahead and buck them off to about 3-4 inches above nominal length if you want to".

Then I got to thinking on it a little and realized that I can zip right through that last 10 inches or so quicker than I can measure and cut each of the logs.
I did include the issue of overlength in my sawing contract shortly after that!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Cedarman

If a customer asks for 8' 9" lumber because that is what he needs, what would you charge if they are his logs?  If you are asked to sell 8'9" lumber from your logs , what would you charge?
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Jeff

I'd be charging him for nine footers, because to get a 8' 9" product he would need to start with at least 9 foot logs. The customer would need to know that going in. If he gave me ten foot logs to get his 8' 9" logs he would be charged for 10 foot.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Chuck White


Yup!  Round to the nearest whole foot.  ;)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

terrifictimbersllc

Lengths for sawing charges and wood sales wouldn't have to be handled the same, no?  Seems to me lengths for wood sales would fall more under whatever regional or association rules are practiced whereas sawing charges are more what policy the sawyer wants to have in place.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

paul case

at my mill 8' 9'' is a 9' charge if it has to be end trimmed. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

red oaks lumber

so we no longer measure by the boardfoot, now its the boardinch?
judging by how some of you responded to this topic i can say  some would not be very good customers to deal with.if being the sawyer and wanting to charge for 8'10" log. put the shoe on the other foot, would you want to be charged for that?
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Bodger

I always under count the pile anyway...that way if the customer counts he is happy or if there is some wain on the ends of a few boards he can't quibble.  If he does fuss and demand a recount then I will count them all.  Over 90% of my customers are repeats and have become friendly.  When I first started out I had rules like a pharisee but over time I've softened quite a bit and found I am none the poorer.  I live in a poor rural area and can make more in a day than most hour workers make in a week so it's hard for me to gripe.  You don't want to be like the guy who could put a walnut in his mouth and a nickel in his hand and if you tired to get the nickel he cracked the walnut.
Work's fine for killing time but it's a shaky way to make a living.

gunman63

 I thought at the begining it started out as a guy sawing logs a  few were over length,and how to charge for the  over length few,  not buying a 8'9" board. Me, if im buying a 8'9" board,  im buying a 10 footer. almost sounds like we are talking about both in the same thread.

Magicman

Well it's easy to get yourself all tangled up in "what if" scenarios.  That's a never ending argument without an ending.  Every situation has it's own answer, and we each have to answer to the customer when unusual circumstances arise.  It's not about either the customer or sawyer taking advantage of the other.

Any unusual situations can be talked out with the customer before the job begins.  If you discover unusual lengths in the whack, then is the time for a question to the customer.  I had an instance a couple of months ago.  When questioned the customer responded, "aw, I just forgot to take my ruler that day and guessed at them".  He was building a house.  He didn't want odd length framing lumber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

backwoods sawyer

When I am building with my own rough sawn wood, I like to have more then just a few inches of trim. Knots and end checking can be cut out of some boards that are foot or so longer then needed. I encourage my customers to leave plenty of trim on there logs and do not charge extra. I also like to do a sight evaluation before bringing the mill in, this gives me time to talk over with the customer what he is doing as well as the whole process. Then when I bring the mill in we are ready to get down to the business of milling the logs and there is no confusions.
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

ely

i used to figured each board and write down the board footage so i would have an accurate bill to show the customer. i got to notice it took alot of my time and the customer just looked dumbfounded at times.

then i started to just sticker all the lumber then if it was 8ft lumber i would make them 4 ft wide stacks. i would count the layers and figure 32 bdft per layer.  i call it averaging, anyway if i had one layer that was a ten footer i would just call them 8 ft also. all the customers liked the way i figured because it was in there favor . alot of them will give me a 20 dollar tip after they write the check. some even will round up the bill from 175 bucks to make it an even 200.


Meadows Miller

Gday

BWoods im the same its always better to be a foot over than a couple of inches short Mate  :o   ;) :D :D  ;D 8)

Elly I use Tally sheets all the time on custom orders and larger milling jobs  it gives the customer something that they know exactly what they have to work with on  bigger orders i scan a copy and staple it to the invoice it pays to have a backup esp if your sending custom sawn stuff into large yards with upto 20to3 mmbft in stock at any one time like i have in the past  Mate  ;)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

LorenB

Quote from: Todd Tittle on September 11, 2010, 09:03:42 PM
John and Paul I didn't mean to imply that people who have manual mills should not charge by the hour.  It's just that for me at my pace and skill level I don't feel comfortable charging by the hour. I have about 60 hours on my 3 year old mill.  When I have a few hundred hours under my belt and get better/faster at knowing what a log will give me and what it won't, I might change my mind about hourly rates.




Todd

Todd,

Everyone starts out a novice.  After I got my first saw the word got around even before I started to advertise and I got a call out of the blue for a big job.  A man was having his own trees cut and needed someone to mill them into lumber for the barn that was to be built. 

I didn't realize when I looked at the house-sized pile of 16-20 foot logs, most of which were about 20-30" in diameter, how long it would take me to cut them.  As it turned out, it took months, in my off days (I still had my day job back then). 

I explained to the potential customer that I was new at this and therefore would probably be slow and would make a few mistakes.  I said that as an adjustment for my inexperience, I would charge half my "normal" rate.  He accepted. 

By the time that job was done, I had 200 hours on the brand new saw and a lot more experience.  The customer got a very good deal on his lumber, I got some training, the sawmill got broken in, I paid for several boxes of bands, and still had a little spending money. 

As long as you and your customer both understand that you might not be as fast or as good as a more experienced sawyer and you charge accordingly, you should be fine charging by the hour. 

Good luck,
– Loren
Loren
Baker 3667D portable sawmill, Cook's edger, Logrite arches & peaveys.  Husky 272XP chainsaw & two Echos.

paul case

that is correct, my $40/hour dont sound too expansive when compared to the nearest hydraulic mill that charges $85/ hour.  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Todd Tittle

Thanks again guys.  I greatly appreciate everybody's insight on this topic.

Todd 

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