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Is This Glossy BuckThorn ?

Started by g_man, September 06, 2010, 09:53:06 AM

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g_man

I believe I have found a Glossy BuckThorn Tree. It is by itself, in a dry acidy place,  about 12' high, alternate simple leaf without teeth or hair. The berry has one seed in it. Other than the dry site it seems to meet the discriptions I have found. Not sure if it is as invasive as the Common BuckThorn? Thanks for the help.

gg








Holmes

We just identified the same "glossy buckthorn" in our yard today. It has spread around our land quickly. Holmes
Think like a farmer.

SwampDonkey

Apparently, it has invaded NS. I see an article by David Sutherland in the latest Atlantic Forestry Review magazine. Apparently, about the only native shrubs that can compete with it are alders, dogwoods and chokecherries. He tried to plant hardwood (red oak and red maple) among it to grow a forest from an old wet field with no luck. But, who knows how much effort he put into it. With a lot of such projects the enthusiast often runs out of puff and steam. I've seen it happen just with alders and hawthorns that folks tried to reforest with spruce, so I know. :D ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

g_man

I found that one 4" diameter tree which seemed to be by it self. The next day I was on the lookout for the stuff and found quite a few small ones started in an old drained out beaver pond about 200 yards away. They were mixed in with rasberries and black berries.

RynSmith

Well, a very quick search leads me to believe that you should be as agressive as possible to get rid of it.   >:(

Can't help with how to do that, but a good ol' google (or your favorite search engine) search should help pretty well.  Unless, of course, you like it a whole bunch.  :o

g_man

Been waiting for a dry day - they promise tomorrow is it. Going to pull the small ones and any I have to cut I will treat with RoundUp.

Clark

As you know that is definately buckthorn.  Technically it's a sub-alternate leaf pattern (or is it sub-opposite?), but few really care for that level of detail!

I've dealt with it in the past and will continue to deal with it in the future.  RoundUp seems to have very little effect on it.  As a stump treatment it may work but on foliage it is nearly useless.  All stumps need to be treated, some don't resprout but those are few and far between.  A small initial sample this spring was conducted by myself, simply mounding salt on the cut stump yielded great results.  Hopefully more of that will be tested this fall as it has promise to be an environmentally benign and cheap method of killing the root system.  If deer are present it is wise to pull the cut stem back over the stump as the deer will otherwise lick away the salt.  I think that will be more important in my treatments this fall.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

g_man

When you say salt do you mean table salt ? Or coarse road/rock salt ?
I used 25% Round Up on the four I had to cut. Most I was able to pull but It left the ground pretty well tore up in the place where it had colonized. I wonder about that. Looks like a good place to start more.
Someone else told me to put an upside down tin can over the stump to keep it from resprouting. Then someone else said I need at least 40% Round Up. Must be no sure fire solution.

SwampDonkey

We have a species of hawthorn around here on old fields that we have sprayed herbicide on to control in tree plantations. I've never seen any of it ever work. Some leaves will wither and die and it comes right back.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Clark

I use softener salt.  Nothing special about it, just buy it as cheap as possible, cut the stump as low as possible and use the minimum to cover the stump. 

Doesn't look like I'll get around to treating much more this fall but next spring I plan a full-frontal assault on the stuff.  I'll post some pictures and results next fall.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

John Mc

I have a lot of buckthorn on my property. All I can say is, if you've got it, get on it NOW. If you don't, it can easily become the dominant species in your understory, suppressing the growth of desirable species. If you have limited time, focus first on those that are producing the berries. At least you can start to cut off the source of seeds, then go back later and deal with the sprouts.

A quick way to zero in on Buckthorn: They are usually the first to leaf out in the spring, and they stay green the longest in the fall. Look for the flash of green after everything else has turned color.

I generally don't see berries as light colored as that on my buckthorn this time of year. They are usually dark purple, sometimes almost black by September. If you are in Vermont's NEK, I'd expect you're a bit ahead of me here in the Champlain Valley.

In my dealings with it, I've found that the "concentrate" sold by most hardware stores of about 18% glyphosate is not very effective when treating cut stumps. Likewise, the hardware store "ready to use" 1 or 2% concentration is only somewhat effective as a foliar spray. I had somewhat better results with 25% concentration (I bought 50% and watered it down), but even with this, enough survived and sprouted that I was having to spend too much time going back and retreating. I could mostly get away with about 33% concentration. I now use the 40 or 41% concentration straight out of the bottle sold at most farm supply stores in my area. The generic stuff is cheaper than RoundUp brand name, and just as effective if used in the same concentration.

When doing cut stump treatments, it's important to get the Glyphosate on the stump soon after cutting. The next day is no good. an hour later is not very good either. Try to get the Glyphosate on the stump within a few minutes of cutting. Basically, the quicker the better.

Also, do cut stump treatments during the growing season, not when the tree is dormant. July, August, September have been pretty good months to treat for me. Even well into October in some years, but I suspect you may be a bit ahead of us in the change of seasons, due to your elevation and latitude (I'm at 600 feet)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Coon

What you guys need to use is an agricultural broadleaf spray and mix it a bit on the heavey side of the spot spray rates in the directions.  It works well on both buckthorn and lilacs foliage from what I have found.  I too have a bunch iin my yard to kill off yet.  I personally use Ester 2-4D. 

Brad.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

John Mc

I stay away from the foliar spray on anything bigger than a few feet high. When you are talking trees, or even saplings (6 or 8 ft high and up), I just can't target the spray well enough, and there are too many other things growing nearby that I don't want to hit.

Even the professional outfit I had quote on treating my buckthorn wouldn't guarantee results in anything over 15 ft high, and even the 15 and under I was concerned about the oak ad other desirable species they were intertwined with.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

SwampDonkey

I sprayed some wild raspberry once because I thought there was nothing else growing there and was going to sink some white spruce in that spot. I had discovered later that I should never have touched it. It was growing sugar maple in under the raspberry canopy. From then on, I swore never to use herbicide on my woods. Something always comes back. Might not be spruce planted in straight rows, but there isn't a tree that grows that can't be sold in these parts. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

John Mc

I started off determined not to use herbicides in my woods. My determination met its match when I ran up against buckthorn. When you only have a few, it might be possible, but when it's as widespread as mine is, it's a losing battle.

I had a recommendation for non-chemical control of buckthorn:

  • wait until the buds break in the spring, but before the leaves are out. Cut it as close to the ground as possible.
  • the buckthorn will stump sprout (it always does). Wait until the sprouts are about knee high, then cut them off low again.
  • In theory, the above should kill off a good bit of it. If it sprouts again, wait till knee high and cut again.
The thinking behind the plan above was to force the buckthorn to expend as much of its energy reserves as possible, while not giving it the opportunity to get much (or anything) back from photosynthesis: cut before leaf out, cut after it's put energy into sprouting, etc.

In practice, I got less than 1/3 mortality after the first sprout cutting, probably still well under 50% after the second sprout cut. Most of these were on 0.5" to 1.5" saplings.

I finally gave up and went to brushing concentrated Round-up on the cut stumps. at concentrations over about 30% I got good results. I can live with that minimal use of chemicals, I guess. It's very targeted, since it's applied right on the stump. In heavily infested areas, I usually find if got a bunch of foot-high seedlings the next year -- probably from the seed bank left in the soil. I did try foliar spray of 3 or 4% glyphosate on one batch of these once, just to see what would happen. Results were pretty good, but I've gone back to just cutting these with a brush saw, since, like SD I'm not a fan of herbicides in the forest, and foliar spray is just too "un-targeted" for my preferences.

If someone does have a reliable non-chemical means of controlling this stuff, I'd love to hear it. It needs to be a lot less labor intensive than what I was doing, however. I was losing ground in my battle against buckthorn, since it was spreading faster than I was controlling it.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Holmes

  It is 2 years now and I have been cutting the buckthorn  3 times a year with a bush hog and thinning saw.  It keeps coming back with more shoots.  I just bought a sprayer and round up type spray at tractor supply, 50% solution.  Sounds like I need to spray this on at a the stumps at a 20% solution to make it work.  We shall see.
Think like a farmer.

John Mc

Quote from: Holmes on August 23, 2012, 07:28:30 AM
Sounds like I need to spray this on at a the stumps at a 20% solution to make it work.  We shall see.

Keep track of the concentration you use, and the time of year you applied it.  I'll be interested in the results you get.  20% did not work too for me (killed a good bit of it, but not all, or even almost all).  Others in my area seem satisfied with the results they get at around 20 to 25%.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

westyswoods

Been clearing a woodlot of invasives  for going on four years now. One thing for sure is there is no fast and or easy solution. Buckthorn can be dealt with through three different means, foliage spraying, basil bark treatment or stump treatment,

We have found stump treating is the most effect, also the most labor intense and basically needs two people. One cutting while the other immediately sprays or soaks the stump. Glyphosate is not that effective, look at the ingredients for Tahoe, Element 4 or similar herbicides. They have a Tri something base at 40%.

Basil bark spraying can also be very effective and not as labor intense. Same herbicide mixed with diesel fuel in backpack sprayer. Spray the bottom 12-18 inches and let be. This needs to be done in late fall or even early winter as long as leaves are still green and on tree. The translocation of nutrients to the root system along with chems kills tree.

Two years ago we had almost 100% kill rate with basil bark  last year not nearly as good. My belief is that the exceptionally warm winter meant the difference. If you get a good kill with basil bark the trees will just tip right over in late spring. Dead/dead.

A word of caution to those who may think of using a forestry mower in conjunction with broadcast spraying, make sure you check references. Not to say there not good businesses doing this, the four I've seen are far from effective and can just destroy your woodland. Suppose there will be a ton of repsonse on the last comment, just my experience.

Be Safe and Stay Well
Stay Safe and Be Healthy
Westy

John Mc

Here in Vermont, glyphosate is about the only stuff you can buy (or legally apply) without a pesticide applicator's license.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

SwampDonkey

Glyphosate by the name of Vision is all that is sprayed on forest land up here. But it does not kill the maples and beech very well, it just stunts it. Birches, alder, aspen and willow it kills stone dead. Hawthorn just gets greener.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

John Mc

I haven't noticed the Vision brand around here.  Mostly, it's RoundUp, though you see a lot more generic versions around (for less $) now that the patent has run out on RoundUp.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

SwampDonkey

There is a story behind it. They are both the same, by the same company. The reason it's called Vision is a rebranding/relabeling to get approval where the name Roundup was met with opposition from environmental groups. It's been Vision for at least 20 years for forest application and Roundup for agriculture and home.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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