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making a saw

Started by litewood, November 09, 2003, 06:15:23 AM

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litewood

Hello,
 I have been reading alot here lately.Interested in making some sort of mill either band or chainsaw.
yesterday fellow up the road that just moved in said he was getting rid of junk so i went up to look. in the barn were piles of nuts bolts screws pullys gears handles some stuff still in boxes.mostof the stainless screws still in boxes.
Ended up getting lots of big nuts and bolts to 12 inches long.
drill bits up to about 2 inches lots have never been used.
a big chainhoist is still up in a tree will get it today.
all sorts of weird looking chunks of steel alot is stainless
lots of iron scrap angle and pipe some aluminum
going to get alot more today got it all for 27 dollars cause that was what I had in front pocket he was going to just give me the stuff.but had to offer something.
anyway I think there is enough stuff here to build several things.
any thing off hand that you could use a 1/2 horse continous duty motor think its actually bigger it weighs about 100pounds  and 7/8 or inch shaft thinking it would make something.smaller bandsaw?
also is a looks like a combo woodsplitter /who knows what itsan odd looking thing only two wheels in back big gearbox motor with side shaft like a roto tiller only bigger don't know what it is, and 4 or 5 other riding mower motors
 lots of other odd stuff.some looks like parts used on milling machines or something.threaded rods slotted pieces simular to machinist vise only different and some strange looking tools I have worked  maintenance around swedish and lots of german machinery  set up and worked on lots of  different stuff  at juice plant and other places and never saw stuff like it.
curious about something simple to build.
 just for own use.
what would I need for parts minimum .have a trailer frame
its 5 ft widex16ft plus alot of pieces from mobile home frame
that is I beam. three set of axles
any ideas?

Fla._Deadheader

  Where do ya live??? I wanna move next door. :D :D
  Sounds like someone could build the ultimate mousetrap with the stuff you got.  Post pics. We need LOTS of pics on this site. Makes it easier to not be so confused. ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Duane_Moore

 :Dsounds like my shop ;D  only neater
village Idiot---   the cat fixers----  I am not a complete Idiot. some parts missing.

litewood

Fla._Deadheader I liked your rig for trailer I will have to make something like it and will need alot of ideas on making stuff cheap.haven't read everything in here yet but will.and will ask alot of questions

  none of the larger allthread was over 2 1/2 long hoping for 4ft ended up with alot of oddities that will be useful
. the guy who used to live there was a  pipefitter most of the time but did other work to  and he collected alot of things from jobs and lots of tools with different initials laying around in shed/barn,when he moved I guess he figured he could always get more.I left the tools, but took all the big drill bits over 3/8's got over a hundred.
I should have hauled as much as possible when i first showed up. went over yesterday and guy who moved there wants some of it now thats how it usually goes.I brought 5 gal buckets and a large magnet  in a coffee can for non stainless nuts bolts and his wife said she would pick most of it up for me they don't need it and want to park vehicles in there.

would rollers about 2 or 2 1/2 inches work on mill? there are abunch about 18 or 20 inches long with 1/2  inch hex shafts with bearings and plates wih 4 bolt holes think I may go back and get them

Fla._Deadheader

  I don't see how it would be possible to have too many rollers. Takes a BUNCH of work out of lifting and handling boards and cants. We make ours in 10' sections.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Danny_S

Now I am no genieus, but I would just suggest getting out and get a good look at some mills. Take pictures. Ask questions. Look at all different kinds of mills and you will get ideas. There are lots of good ideas in the Forum here too. That is how I got alot of my ideas was just seeing different mills and see how people have allready built it. Use your imagination. You might be looking at a mill and say "Hey! I can use that handle off that old peice of machinery I have for that!  That is how I use my brain anyways. Maybe I am a strange duck... but that is what I would do
Plasma cutting at Craig Manufacturing

Danny_S

Plasma cutting at Craig Manufacturing

T_in_SC

Hi folks,
I'm new to the forum but have been reading it for quite a while and getting all sorts of useful information.  Not to mention the entertainment.

Litewood,
I'm mostly finished building a mill using the plans sold by Mr. William Rake (http://pennswoods.net/~zigbug/).  It is a simple mill using trailer wheels for band wheels.  It seems to work pretty well.  I intended to have the tires balanced but haven't gotten around to it.  It doesn't have much vibration.  I wouldn't build it too small.  It only takes a little more material to build a bigger mill,  same amount of figuring and labor.  Made mine 14 ft, if I was doing it over I would make 20 ft. Here are a couple of pictures if I can do it right.



Fla._Deadheader

  Nice lookin wood pile, "T". Welcome to the Forum. Are there any covers over the wheels to keep the blade from escaping???  If ya ever back a blade off the wheels, hope no-one is near the mill.  Nice job on the mill.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

T_in_SC

Thanks FD,  Right now it just has about a 3 inch deep "U" shaped fender that goes across the top of the blade and down the outside of both wheels.  I plan to add a front cover for the wheels and a quard over the drive belt on the back.  Its powered by a 13 hp honda and the blade does 4400 ft per minute.  Do you think I should change the small drive pulley to get more speed?

solidwoods

Buy steel.  It is very cheap.  It would take more time making from "almost what you need" than to buy at leat the main frame memembers, have thick wall to weld to, be done with the job and get to a pay job.

Mobile home frame won't make a good trailer,,,too thin and tall.  
Makes a good piece to put in the middle of a laminated door way header to a shed.

I would stay away from inflatable wheels.
I would buy steel wheels off the shelf.
JIM

T in SC I have a friend that has a mill on Savannah.  He runs a tree svc but dosen't use the mill much.  I bet he would sell logs or work a "you mill and split lumber" deal with his mill.  
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

Fla._Deadheader

  Without offending anyone on this forum, that offered all kinds of ideas and support when we were building our mill, I found that once the mill is cutting, you have to find what works best for you and forget about "manufacturer's" suggested requirements.
  At 4400, does it cut straight and not wavy???  Is the engine pulling hard when you cut??? If there is room for tweaking, is it worth the extra expense and effort???
  We got some great input from the guys here. Helped us a bunch. You might want to try different brands of blades. We just nearly doubled production with another brand. Just got 5 more delivered yesterday. If they work as well as the first, I will be very happy.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

T.,
When I first got my mill up and running, I had it pulleyed for a band speed of 5000 ft/min. Having it powered with a electic motor, the saw was not sawing most of the time. I was getting no blade life, so decreased the speed to 4000 ft/min.. I lost a little sawing speed on the 4 inch cuts, but on the larger widths, I could not see any difference. The slow speeds give you longer blade life, the teeth don't dull as fast, and the spill-over is less. If you go to more hp, then think about more blade speed.

Fla._Deadheader

  Hey "D". Forgot to respond to your info about slowing the blade speed, but, keep up the feed speed, for larger dust size. It worked well. 8) Course we had different blade to try also, but, I believe you got a good idea. Thanks for posting it.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

T_in_SC

SolidWoods,
   Savannah is about 3 hours from me so I doubt that would work out.  Now if he has some nice Walnut, but I expect he would cut that himself.  I do this as a hobby so it doesn't take much to keep me busy.

F_D and D.
   I misspoke about the 4400 ft per minute.  Its 3800 fpm.  I was thinking 44 MPH.  I have been using Timberwolf blades and the Suffolk guy said that was on the slow side.  It cuts straight as long as I keep a fairly sharp blade on and don't try to go too fast.  And the engine doesn't bog down much at all.  F_D, dont you want to fill us in on the kind of blades that worked so well.

Fla._Deadheader

  Already did. We have 5 more, and if they work as well as the first, I will let you know.
  If you have the adjustment space, you might go up 1 inch or so and see if you like what you get. I would definitely go up in small increments at a time.
  I have the blade speed formula around here someplace, if you want specifics.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

T_in_SC

Litewood
  My frame is 3x5x1/4 angle iron with 3x1/4 channnel for cross pieces.  I dont think I would go with any thing much lighter than that.  If I make another mill I'll probably use 2x6 or 3x6 box tube.

Fla._Deadheader

  Box tube will definitely take the twist and rack out of the frame.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

litewood

howdy,
I am going to look at two old industrial bandsaws saturday  the guy who is selling said I would need a horse and 3 or 4 guys to move the small one.they sold the business and cleaned out the place and stuck alot of stuff at another place out in the weather......
he said they worked or did two months ago.who knows
He only wants 100 for the smaller one and 200 bucks  for the big boy.if they seem ok  I will offer 2 for both and if necessary come up  this should make some sort of mill depending on the wheel size  we will see.shouldn't be hard at all to modify one.
if nothing else i will be able to saw some smaller stuff as is.
also know  a guy who has alot of steel  he worked power plant jobs I believe and on one said he got paid for cleanup at the end of one job and hauled it to his moms place.   (I got six sections of pipe I needed for a dock on pond  and he said just take it I wanted to pay so he said ok 2 bucks! i gave him 10 or 15 stuffed it in his shirt pocket) I need to go by and see if he is around and what all he has.
he had a variety of ibeams  it may be all gone by now this was in the summer.
I kind of wondered if mobile home frame was stiff enough for bigger stuff.
my son in law told me that a sawyer died recently and  to go talk to his wife about his stuff.I think its the same guy who asked about trees out back for ties several months ago he was only one around  as far as i know.didn't know him or his wife  if i had the cash i would check if its all still there and may anyway  need stuff cheap but don't want to cheat his wife  don't really know the value.I will check sawmill exchange maybe afewotherplaces.
oneway or another I will cut up some logs! this may take awhile but i will get it done.  

it starts with afew boards for self....naturally I will need plenty or woodworking equip.to make things from boards....then what *smile*
like any thing else always lots of accessories........

from there  its backhoe or something,trailers, bigger truck,
then i will need afew buldings and a solar kiln/kilns etc  then a big planer molder one thing after another.then bigger saws
lite

solidwoods

Litewood.  I also forgot to suggest making a 4 post mill horizontal blade.  Cantilevered mill designs are fine also but you may need an example for that more than one for a 4 post.
Also ask to see a used mill work.


FL Dh.  Don't worry about me, I like all mills and mill design.  Just some more than others :D

One of the things I don't like about inflatable bandsaw wheels is the wide face.  A solid wheel has just enough face for the blade, so it should be easier to work with for tracking and blade performance trouble shooting.  A person could pull some hair out trying to get the best tire for the job,  especially if it is their first mill to be around or don't have some reference to work from.
It's quicker and more reliable to use mill components right off the shelf since they have proven performance, and almost maintenance free.

Happy Recycle Day
JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

Fla._Deadheader

  " FL Dh.  Don't worry about me, I like all mills and mill design.  Just some more than others ". Have I missed something, Jim???

  Munksforsager has NO re-sharp program. Will you be able to sharpen them??? Have you seen their gullet shape??? It looks a little like WM. I will have 6 to send you, in the beginning. I will order more, if these work out. That will give us extras.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

D._Frederick

Solidwood,
I agree with you about the band wheels, you have a lot more problems to over come with inflatable tires. The biggest problems are: Vibration caused by rim or tire being out of balance, Tire not being round causing blade whip, keeping air pressure correct causes tracking problems, not enought crown for tracking. Tires do work, but I think it would be easier to sell a mill with steel wheels and it would increase its value.

wiam

Just wondering if you guys that put down inflatable tires have ever used them.

Will

solidwoods

Fl Dh.

I'll check to see if I can get a cam to grind Munk/ blades.

Wiam.
I use all kinds of tires.  But not on my mill (Kasco).  I think using tires for mill wheels is using them too far from there designed purpose.  If you prototype it to find just the right type of inflatable tire (like thin not thick, extra thick sidewall for those broken band teeth cuts,  non corrosive rim, a balancing system that won't change because a lead weight flew off) a safe and reliable wheel could be made (and is) but if you are an amateur builder making a mill, an off the shelf, solid wheel is a much better "design/build/make it work right without having a frustration stroke" choice.
JIM
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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