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Started by ArcFault, September 03, 2010, 12:48:31 AM

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nas

I wouldn't take a tractor into the swamp in the dead of winter.  It won't freeze under the snow.  Maybe an ATV of a snowmobile.

Nick
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
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JohnG28

Even if the tractor wasnt able to drive through it, should be able to drag logs across, I would think.  Probably need to buck them into reasonable size logs, not tree length, but I would think it could still be possible to get some of that hard to get wood out of there.  Also, is it possible to maybe cut in a new access road/trail, maybe survey a way to get to the harder to get wood you want.  I realize you still need to get that new saw to be more productive and able to take on more, but some more to think about.
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SwampDonkey

Yeah, watch those swamps for freeze up. Maybe flag a path with ribbon up in the trees across areas that aren't a muck mire, and maybe brush out. Once you make a first path through let it freeze up over night. Do this on a real cold spell, likely in January. I don't know how well that tractor will wade snow though.  :-\ When we worked in cedar ground it never froze much.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Randy88

Try to get as much cover off the ground as possible so the ground is exposed and the more you drive on it after its froze you drive the frost deeper, works just like a driveway with a lot of traffic, the frost will go four feet deep or more in the driven area and have no frost at all in the area beside it that has a little snow cover on it.   We've already shoved the snow off with a tractor and blade and also the underbrush out of the way and gone in after a few days of really cold and windy weather and just kept the snow plowed off and in a few weeks you could drive almost anything on the path, but the key is to keep the snow off, stay away from areas of flowing water, expecially in muck areas those will virtually never freeze and unless your on tracks to distribute the weight I'd never attempt that, but theres usually an area where you can make a path to, the idea of ribbons tied to the trees is excellent, I"ve already spray painted a mark all the way around trees to mark a path and also used different colors to mark areas to avoid at all costs, its harmless and in few years is gone, but those have a tendancy to get covered with snow and you can't see them.   Depending on how wet the area is winter can work in your favor but if its a marsh and swamp completely it can also be a nightmare, if you'd fall through the ice and end up in muck, you just made for a bad day thats only getting worse, been there done that as well.   

Okrafarmer

Don't drive over any open water of the swamp-- it's just not safe, unless you really know what you're doing. Question-- how close can you get to the maples in winter time without going on real treacherous swamp? When the ground is frozen you should be able to get closer even if you can't get right to it. And-- how long is your winch cable? Another thing you can do is to get more cable, if it would help.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

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Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

ArcFault

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Now here is what I've learnt talking to my girlfriends mom.


The swamp never freezes. She said on the really cold days you can see some sort of steam coming off of it actually. I found that weird. Anyone know how this is possible?



The winch cable is very long but it's also maxed out. So adding to it is impossible. But it's dang near 100' I bet. And it can pull a full lenght aspen without delimbing it. (If it's cleared ground or just brush. It comes to a dead stop if I hit a stump. :D)



I went out and used a can of spray paint and marked some stuff. The little ridge makes it difficult to go around and get to the other side. I cleared about 30' of trail and can't get any further. Tractor does not like the ridge.



They have been across the swamp on a snowmachine, their snowmachine trail continues on the other side. I know the cable reaches across. I've tried.



Thanks guys.

nas

A lot of swamps I have seen never freeze in the winter.  Sometimes they have water flowing from one end to the other, and sometimes warmer water is always pushing up from the ground.  This may be the case with your swamp, that the water is running underground from up the hill, and coming up in the swamp.  You could wait for a dry summer, or make a sleigh for the sled and do it in winter.  Check out member Quebecnewf for a good setup.  The other option may be to access it from a neighbours property if it is possible.  Good luck :)

Nick
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
Husky 365
1 wife
6 Kids

ArcFault

Quote from: nas on September 12, 2010, 11:48:42 AM
A lot of swamps I have seen never freeze in the winter.  Sometimes they have water flowing from one end to the other, and sometimes warmer water is always pushing up from the ground.  This may be the case with your swamp, that the water is running underground from up the hill, and coming up in the swamp.  You could wait for a dry summer, or make a sleigh for the sled and do it in winter.  Check out member Quebecnewf for a good setup.  The other option may be to access it from a neighbours property if it is possible.  Good luck :)

Nick


Going on the nabours land is not a problem. They owm hundreds of acres all arround. I may try talking the one nabour into letting me use his property to gain acess to the hardwood in the far corner.

beenthere

Quote from: ArcFault on September 12, 2010, 09:45:35 AM
..........The swamp never freezes. She said on the really cold days you can see some sort of steam coming off of it actually. I found that weird. Anyone know how this is possible?...............

Possible that the swamp never freezes or that there is "steam" coming off?    :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ArcFault

Quote from: beenthere on September 12, 2010, 12:44:26 PM
Quote from: ArcFault on September 12, 2010, 09:45:35 AM
..........The swamp never freezes. She said on the really cold days you can see some sort of steam coming off of it actually. I found that weird. Anyone know how this is possible?...............

Possible that the swamp never freezes or that there is "steam" coming off?    :)


I meant the steam... I know how steam works, don't worry. I just meant, would a swamp do that?

fishpharmer

Could the swamp be spring fed?  Is there any waterflow out of the swamp area?  A spring may not have to be "warm" if it has enough flow, to produce steam in the winter.  Just a thought.
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Okrafarmer

Might not be steam, just water vapor, like when you see your breath in the cold air. The water coming up from below would just be warmer than the air, and when it hits the surface, some of the water, agitating a little, swirls with the air and the air causes it to freeze off like seeing your breath. Also, some swamps generate and release methane or other chemicals enough to produce various visible gas phenomena.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

John Mc

I wonder if you've got a seep.

I've got a couple of marshy/swampy areas on my land that are pretty good sized. During wet seasons, water does actually flow through them, and a seasonal stream forms at the outlet. They do freeze up in the colder portions of winter. I've only had the guts to take my tractor over the very edges of it, but I do ski across it.

I've got one small area right in the middle of an old logging trail that is constantly wet, even in the middle of a drought. It rarely freezes in the winter. When it does get a cap of ice on it, it's usually very thin... even walking on it will break through the ice. It's on the side of a hill, where the slope gets shallower (though not flat). It's always wet, though I don't ever see much flowing water. There is no obvious inflow source, so I has to be coming up out of the ground. It makes the trail pretty useless (which is why it only gets used on foot, and even then I go around this spot). One of these days, I'll relocate the trail altogether...

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

ArcFault

Quote from: John Mc on September 13, 2010, 09:13:54 AM
I wonder if you've got a seep.

I've got a couple of marshy/swampy areas on my land that are pretty good sized. During wet seasons, water does actually flow through them, and a seasonal stream forms at the outlet. They do freeze up in the colder portions of winter. I've only had the guts to take my tractor over the very edges of it, but I do ski across it.

I've got one small area right in the middle of an old logging trail that is constantly wet, even in the middle of a drought. It rarely freezes in the winter. When it does get a cap of ice on it, it's usually very thin... even walking on it will break through the ice. It's on the side of a hill, where the slope gets shallower (though not flat). It's always wet, though I don't ever see much flowing water. There is no obvious inflow source, so I has to be coming up out of the ground. It makes the trail pretty useless (which is why it only gets used on foot, and even then I go around this spot). One of these days, I'll relocate the trail altogether...

John Mc


That is kinda neat. I know they have two springs that come up on their property. I've seen two anyways. One gushes, the other trickles. So this may be a spring fed swamp.

Randy88

If you have two know springs then there are more in the swamp you can't see, thats usually how it works or its a peat bog or whatever you want to call it.   Most areas that have a sping usually have more, I do ag tiling and when we tile and drain a spring as the ground dries up others not so large are still pumping water and will show up then or you can see them then is more like it.   We dug in a tile line a few years back alongside a spring and did it with the excavator and in a 250 ft long run we counted another 18 springs in the three feet wide width we were digging in, thats why wet areas that are spring fed are really tought to dry up, if thats what your dealing with then the ground will never freeze due to the fact theres always 40-50 degree water being pumped up from below ground and keeping the area thawed out all winter long.  Theres almost always springs coming up in the stream bed as well, you just can't see them pumping water out cause theres flowing water in the stream, thats why the stream is where it is, we've had mother nature reroute streams before due to floods and since you can't put them back again[its against the law] the old abandoned stream bed becomes pasture, farmland, whatever and we always end up going in and tiiing out the springs that are still in the old stream bed to help dry them up.

John Mc, your wet spot in your logging trail thats a boil hole, its at the base of a hill where the hill begins to level off, theres a crevas in the rocks there that channel the water to that spot from off the hill and underground, as the hill seeps water it runs in the underground rock layer and is channeled there and thats where it boils up, I've tiled a lot of those out before, its a rock upcropping that comes closer to the surface there and is different than the underground rock layer around it, if you were to dig in that spot deep enough you'd find a hole that you could stick your arm into and only one hole, thats why the water boils up there, it must be pretty deep or you'd never drive across it, if you did it right you could actually pipe the water to the surface and use the underground water pressure to get it to come out on top of the ground in that spot, we've done that as well, for watering livestock, some call them springs others a sand point well or artishian well, boil holes, side hill seeps, whatever you want to call them they work about the same way.  As the water comes off the hill underground it builds up pressure as it falls and when it gets to that point it shoots out ontop of the ground at the lower elevation.   I'd put my road elsewhere, it'll be wet there till the end of time.

The water vapor you see in the winter thats from warmer water hitting coler air, as the spring pumps water up from underground its usually around 45degrees give or take a little and when it hits really cold air on the surface it gives the apprearance of steam, just like seeing your breathe on a cold winters day, in hot summer days it works the opposite, the water is colder and hits the warmer air on the surface and gives off a fog like appearance, thats a big spring pumping a lot of water, like millions of gallons a week or a month, or more, make a fortune and bottle it and sell it as artesian water or something.

Okrafarmer

Just don't market it as artesian swamp water.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

SwampDonkey

Talking about an artesian well, there was always a spot at the end of one of the fields here that seeps water early in the summer and then dries up. That spot was dark earth. Well, when dad sold the farm I told the couple that they'd have all kinds of water just up the field from that spot. Good for a well. They dug the well there and it's been a giser like old faithful for 9 years now, just shooting up in the air around the well head. :D The folks sold out and moved on and another couple moved in and first they thought the well was busted or something with all the water shooting out. :D It's stronger in the fall and springtime. A neighbor dug 3 fish ponds and has a well all off springs in the field beside his house, his place is just down the road from the other house a piece. We had a couple other springs out on the back of the farm on the opposite side of the road of those houses to. You just took a cup in the shade of the cedars and spruce and had a good drink in the heat of summer. There is another just up the road where there was a hand dug well with a spring house over it, like at grandpa's dug well down on that same farm I mentioned. (fed two houses and the barn trough). Anyway that spring never freezes and I've seen day after day at -30 F in January, might crust a little but with the sun it opens back up. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Randy88

Maybe something like this instead, the freshest arteshian water overlookng a calm beautiful minature lake we're the backwaters are so quiet nobody even knows its there, get a sample of what peacefull and cooling refreshment is truely all about, nothing is fresher, more thirst quenching than natures own atresian water, bottled in a secluded location only the most daring will go to make sure its pure, fresh and available to only you and those that thirst for only the finest.   

Sounds better than, we pounded a pipe in the ground to bottle this junk from the mesquito infested hole that the world abandoned to relive fools of their hard earned money. :D

John Mc

Quote from: Randy88 on September 14, 2010, 11:08:02 PM
Sounds better than, we pounded a pipe in the ground to bottle this junk from the mesquito infested hole that the world abandoned to relive fools of their hard earned money. :D

Good one!  Did yo know that municipal water supplies are subject to significantly tighter standards and are more closely monitored than bottled water? Always makes me laugh when people think they're getting "healthier" water when buying bottles. Maybe in some parts of the world, or when compared to some private wells, but generally not when compared to most municipal water supplies in the U.S.

The only time I buy bottled water is when I forgot to bring some with me. Even then I had a hard time bringing myself to pay for it. I've finally rationalized it by thinking "I'm not buying the water, I'm buying a cheap container to carry it in... they just filled it up for me ahead of time."
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

SwampDonkey

I never buy it either, but I was drinking it at Jeff's pig roast because I don't drink carbonated soft drinks or beer. ;)

I know I've got better water from my well than being dispensed in plastic. If you can taste the plastic, and you can, than it ain't good.  :-\
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Okrafarmer

Quote from: John Mc on September 16, 2010, 12:09:45 PMDid yo know that municipal water supplies are subject to significantly tighter standards and are more closely monitored than bottled water? Always makes me laugh when people think they're getting "healthier" water when buying bottles. Maybe in some parts of the world, or when compared to some private wells, but generally not when compared to most municipal water supplies in the U.S.

The only time I buy bottled water is when I forgot to bring some with me. Even then I had a hard time bringing myself to pay for it. I've finally rationalized it by thinking "I'm not buying the water, I'm buying a cheap container to carry it in... they just filled it up for me ahead of time."

Unfortunately municipal water has chlorine and flouride in it, both of which are harmful to humans. Therefore I try to filter it out, or buy distilled water, which theoretically has neither of these ingredients in it. Unfortunately, my massive hydration needs dictate that I not be so picky and I end up drinking an awful lot of municipal water on a day to day basis-- sometimes 2 gallons or more a day when it's hot out. I believe somebody on here refers to that as a 3-shirt day? But I keep the same shirt on to gain benefit of the sweat already in my shirt to help keep me cool. Anyway, if I buy water it is distilled water and that is the best tasting stuff IMO.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

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