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Is forestry a viable career anymore?

Started by wpayne, November 07, 2003, 07:18:25 AM

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wpayne

I know there are jobs out there but how's the future?  I'm a college student (again) after a career change from the computer field and agriculture in general, forestry specifically are all that seem to interest me.  I don't want to waste 4 years or more in school and have to go back to the computer jobs I gladly left.  I guess the title should be "Can I get a job with my forestry degree?" and if not what do I need to do to be a forester?  I have been in the Army before and I'm willing to relocate for the RIGHT job(s) if they aren't available in my area.  Also, what is a day in the life of a "real" forester like?  I know its not an 8 hour nature walk.  That's enough questions for a first post I guess.  Thanks for any input.

Randy

beenthere

Yes, Forestry is a 'viable' career, and the answer to "can I get a job with my forestry degree?" is "maybe".  That depends on you, your portfolio (sounds like it is pretty full already), and the experience you bring with you. i.e., if you were successful in computers, then that should be a real plus when looking for a job with a 'successful' degree in forestry. There are many options in a degree in Forestry. You may want to look at majoring in one or two of them, depending on your interest. Don't find out too late that you are not really interested in a career, because 4 years in studies is too long to waste. Just getting a degree (in Forestry, or anything) isn't in itself a ticket to a job or career.  It just gives you some of the tools to use to support your work if you get the chance.

Jobs in forestry, from my limited aquaintances and experience, is that the 'graduate' gets placed in the field (forest) and works his/her way up into a desk job where the 'new hires' are now the ones in the forest. Seems backwards to have the less experinced in the forest, but probably there are arguments to support both ways.

Good luck in your future decision.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Forester Frank

Forestry is a viable field, and so is the military. Are you in the National Guard? If not, the how come? The Guard can help get you through school and you can spend a weekend a month and two weeks out of the summer serving your country. Your computer experience may help you on the GPS/GIS side of forest mapping - blends well with Cartography.

As long as we have forests we will need foresters!

Take a few classes in Forestry and see how you like it. Start with Dendrology and move on from there. See if you can get an internship or part time job in Forestry with the state, feds, or private industry to give you a feel for what foresters do.

Do you mind being alone? Can you supervise yourself? Do you schedule your time well? You were in the Army, so I am sure you got cold and wet. Foresters generally get cold and wet, but we try to schedule office time on the bad weather days.

Good luck with the career move and don't forget that Michigan State was one of the few teams that beat KU in basketball last year.
Forester Frank

wpayne

I'll look over that Michigan State comment, no need rubbing salt in my wounds... hehe.  UK basketball is a religion round here.

As far as the time scheduling, working alone and self supervision I would have to say, yes, yes and yes.  I prefer to work alone or in small groups and I sure did get cold (and hot, did a tour in AZ) and wet in the army.
  
I've done well in my professional life, army and private sector, and see myself doing well in this as well.  Being able to get a job doing what I go to school for is my greatest concern.  I am quite proficient with computers and technology in general, I had never considered the GIS angle as a plus for me before.  Looks like my computer days weren't useless in this field afterall.  

I got hooked on this career idea while doing tree trimming and cleanup after the ice storm of last spring.  I just wanted more science and less chainsaw.  I was looking into getting my arborist certification and that search led me to forestry.    Forestry had just never been presented to me as a career option before.  "Go, get a computer job they say, this dot com thing will never go bust."  Three bankrupt companies later I was having second thoughts about that advice.

And to answer the first question last, I'm not in the National Guard.  I was medically separated from the Army so they wouldn't want me.  Nothing serious but I'm non-deployable nonetheless.

Sylvus

The short answer is "yes", forestry remains a viable career and probably will for a long time to come.  However, in the short run, I think it's in the trash can.  The economy and budget woes have slashed jobs in just about all sectors.  However, there will likely be a huge turnover from retirees within the next few years and cycles always have upswings after the downswings.  Your computer background will be invaluable.  Willing to move will increase your opportunities many-fold.  There is no such thing as a typical day in the life of a forester.  The field is incredibly diverse.  You might have a field job, office job, a specialty job, etc.  You might try visiting the website for the Society of American Foresters as www.safnet.org.  There is a section on careers.  

beenthere

After learning more about your situation, another suggestion is join the Society of American Foresters (and other forestry related societies, such as the Arborists or Forest Products Society), attend and participate in their meetings, and get to know the graduate foresters from UK.  Visit the alums if possible, and seek part-time (summer) employment, if available, under them or where they are employed, or at jobs they might know about. Let yourself be seen by others, and if they like what they see, you will have a good leg up on future employment, IMO.

We used to work hard getting students to attend our society meetings, even to the point of paying for their travel expenses. When the students were at the meetings, they would act like students  8). So the next step was to get them to talk and have conversations with the others at the meetings (and visa versa) to realize that they were more than just students and they had things to talk about with others, and to look for mentors there.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

wpayne

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm feeling better about forestry already.  I'll have to start networking in the UK alum and any local society meetings ASAP.  

Bud Man

The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

jrdwyer

With your computer background, the GIS aspect of a forestry education or related fields like urban planning should have quite a few job prospects available upon graduation. Our region just started a GIS system. You could end up working for a city, county, or regional government or an engineering firm doing landscape planning. Not traditional forestry, but land use planning that is similar to multiple-use forest planning.

I work as a traditional forester self-employed as a consultant. There are job opportunities in this area, but overall the number of openings avaialble is quite small compared to other fields of study like accounting, medical, ect. So if you stick with traditional forestry, be prepared to search far and wide upon graduation. You will eventually find a good job, but it will take some effort and time to find what you desire.

SwampDonkey

HI:

I recently recieved a newsletter from the Facaulty of Forestry at UNB, New Brunswick and they suggest that most of their graduates have good paying jobs with the average salary of $46,000 CDN. Most of these jobs have been in regions west of Quebec where companies own or manage huge tracts of land. In the last 5 years I've noticed alot of GIS jobs being created for foresters. Seems like a viable career from my perspective.  8)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

BCCrouch

Legitimate natural resource careers are moribund.  Mickey Mouse jobs that pay less than 35k per year and have limited benefits and career potential are less uncommon.  I'd very much like to see survey data from graduates of the top 10 undergraduate natural resource programs in the USA conducted at the 3 and 10 year post-degree points to determine:

1] the percentage of people with a B.S. in Fisheries, Forestry, or Wildlife Management who are still employed within their chosen field;

2] their level of satisfaction and outlook for the future;

3] the reasons the others are not gainfully employed in natural resource management;

Additionally, information from the private sector and government agencies regarding their number of new hires per year versus the number of degreed people being churned out by the universities would be most welcome. By law, all of the above should be provided to every single undergraduate freshman on their first day of class.  All of the above should be updated every 3 or 4 years to keep things current.

Gee, I wonder how all of the Ivory Tower types would react to such a scenario?     ;)
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

Tom

Hey Brian.  Welcome back.  A voice from the deep dark bowels of the forum. :D

Don't hesitate to tell us what you think.  Don't be gentle.  We can take it. :D :D

Tell us how you've been doing and what you're up to.  How's the last few months been treating you? :P :)

BCCrouch

What've I been up to for the past few months? Re-read the post above. I'll give you 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.  
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

Ron Scott

Two Positions on the Ottawa National Forest, Watersmeet & Bessemer

Watersmeet Position
Timber Sales, GS-11
http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=21049150

Bessemer Position
Silviculture, GS-11
http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=21049285

Both of these are open-market postings, USFS experience is not a requirement. Both have closing deadlines of 22 March, 2004.
~Ron

BCCrouch

Thanks, Ron, but you need a good deal of experience to walk into a GS-11 position.  For those of us with policy and educational forestry backgrounds, jumping into field forestry or sales work would require extensive training or an internship to bring us up to speed.
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

Ron Scott

Conservation District Forester Position

Midland and Gladwin Counties are looking to hire a Conservation District Forester.

Depending on workload, flexible work location between Midland and Gladwin.

For information and scope of work for resume, Contact:

Midland Conservation District
1031 E. Saginaw Road
Sanford, MI 48657
989-687-9760
989-687-9678 (fax)
~Ron

JD350Cmark

Randy,

Don't bother looking at any State jobs in Ca.  They are laying off over 200 foresters statewide in the next month or two.  Gov. Arnold is dish'in out the cutbacks.  Good luck.  -Mark
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25

Norwiscutter

Wisconsin DNR currently has a hiring freeze on.  I have two friends that just graduated with forestry degrees...one is putting in septic systems and the other is a climber for a local tree service. Both probably pay better than the forestry jobs around here anyways.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

BCCrouch

Ahh, for the chance to send a message to my younger self back when I was starting my degree in forestry...    :-/
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

BCCrouch

QuoteLegitimate natural resource careers are moribund.  Mickey Mouse jobs that pay less than 35k per year and have limited benefits and career potential are less uncommon.  I'd very much like to see survey data from graduates of the top 10 undergraduate natural resource programs in the USA conducted at the 3 and 10 year post-degree points to determine:

1] the percentage of people with a B.S. in Fisheries, Forestry, or Wildlife Management who are still employed within their chosen field;

2] their level of satisfaction and outlook for the future;

3] the reasons the others are not gainfully employed in natural resource management;

Additionally, information from the private sector and government agencies regarding their number of new hires per year versus the number of degreed people being churned out by the universities would be most welcome. By law, all of the above should be provided to every single undergraduate freshman on their first day of class.  All of the above should be updated every 3 or 4 years to keep things current.

Gee, I wonder how all of the Ivory Tower types would react to such a scenario?     ;)

I see that no university faculty or extension people have picked up the gauntlet.  Why am I not surprised?  

On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

redpowerd

it may be because the folks that post here enjoy their mickey mouse jobs and sore backs, and the ones that dont, dont have the time or energy or willpower or working knowledge to enjoy a mickey mouse job and a sore back, eh? ;)
NO FARMERS -- NO FOOD
northern adirondak yankee farmer

Jeff

BCCrouch, I think that good attitude has a lot to do with whether one becomes or can stay gainfully employed in their chosen field. Till now I have kept my mouth shut, but that persistent black cloud of yours just got some sprinkles on me. The Mickey Mouse comment implies that the only important thing in a career is the size of a pay check. I think it has more to do with accomplishment.

Ditto Red.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

Very well said, Jeff.  When one comes upon a snarling dog, one is a little hesitant to engage in a "discussion" rather than just stepping aside. My forestry curriculum covered many subjects including the sciences along with engineering, math, and statistics. English and speech were also thrown in as many subjects are needed (at least they were in the 50's and 60's) to give a pretty 'liberal' education. Most of my college classmates didn't end up in a truly "Forestry" career, and some drifted away into totally different careers. One ended up a top VP in the Weyerhauser organization, and others were top 'dogs' in the Forest Service. Quite a variety, and I trust that most were happy. One or two ended up being preachers, a couple are farming, and a couple others own and operate their own business, unrelated to wood. Another owns and operates a large moulding company.
Per BC's comment about faculty not jumping in on the thread, I often felt a bit sad for some faculty (and highschool teachers) who put their heart and soul into training and developing skills in their students to see them excel and become very successful in their own careers, often many times the salary of the faculty. I am sure they are proud of their students accomplishments too, and those are their rewards. Certainly not monetary rewards.
BC.  Hope you can find something you can enjoy doing, and make money doing it at the same time.  Seek and ye shall find. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

JoeZ

Quote from: BCCrouch on February 14, 2004, 10:01:36 AM
Legitimate natural resource careers are moribund.  Mickey Mouse jobs that pay less than 35k per year and have limited benefits and career potential are less uncommon.

A major reason- that you won't read about in the SAF Journal- is that in most states, any first grade drop out can go harvest timber with little restrictions- and that person can tell the forest owner that he'll "manage the forest" for him. If only qualified licensed and/or registered foresters could manage forests, including all harvesting, you'd see a huge increase in real forestry careers- and you'd see better forests for the long term. Of course, many foresters are not motivated to do great work- they must be weeded out of the profession.

Joe

tonich

Quote from: JoeZ on October 26, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
Of course, many foresters are not motivated to do great work- they must be weeded out of the profession.

But then, wouldn’t be the forest labor market itself that get rid of the unmotivated persons?

BrandonTN

To me, it seems the only way to fully use one's potential (ie, to "succeed") in a "career", is to have one's heart in the work. And for me, it's not about whether or not I'm currently on the payroll of a Forestry or Wildlife and Fisheries agency, or how much $ I'm making (ie, table scraps I'm being thrown from The Man) , but instead that am I spending my time working on what my heart is into.

So if you want to do it more than anything else, then do it.

Forester, Nantahala National Forest

Texas Ranger

The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Phorester


A 3 year old thread, but since it has been picked up again.....

"I see that no university faculty or extension people have picked up the gauntlet.  Why am I not surprised? "

Dont' be so smug.  None of these types have come to this forum, so the gauntlet will not get picked up.

Phorester


I agree JOEZ about Forester registration and licensing.  But in Virginia, the Foresters who want this can't get the legislature to pass it.

ibseeker

It would be interesting to hear from Wpayne. It's been 4 years.

Did he continue his pursuit of a career in forestry?

Did BCCrouch have a change of attitude?

Who's going to pick up the gauntlet?

What's happened in those fours years to the forestry professionals?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm curious. I recently had a encouter with a consulting forester. It was interesting and informative. I understand and appreciate the value of Consulting Forester's.

BrandonTN: You hit the nail on the head!

Chuck
worn out poulan, Stihl 250SC, old machete and a bag of clues with a hole in the bottom

wpayne

It's hard to believe four years have passed since I posted this.  It's even harder to believe that this topic is still active.

I didn't complete my degree, forestry or otherwise.  I could rationalize several reasons for not finishing college but it boils down to my being a poor student.  I can work and give it my all when I have something tangible to achieve, but the tedium of college killed my motivation.  The fault there is my own.  Luckily, I had an my prior job skills to fall back on. 

I did learn quite a bit in my hiatus from the working world.  Most of it wasn't included in any text book and none of it is on my transcript.  My biggest turning point was realizing that I've enjoyed every job I've ever had when I worked with good people.  I've returned to the IT business and couldn't be (much) happier.  I still dream of walking timber in southeast Alaska every now and then but I plan to scratch that itch with an upcoming vacation.  I enjoy my work but I'm learning to pursue my interests after business hours, on weekends, and during vacations.  So far it's been an acceptable compromise.





Tom

Wpayne,
Giving it a shot is worth the effort.  You, at least, are able to get your priorities straight, and that is important in life.

One thing to remember and to look at every day is that you don't have to do just one thing.  You also don't have to do what you do all at once.

If you like forestry and want to be educated in it, do it.   Education in later years isn't like the hard-pressed schedules put upon teens and youth in their twenty's.   You have a job and know your path.  The schedule is yours.  If you want to take a course in anything, you can. Even if it doesn't lead to a degree.  The schools are full of interesting subjects from Botany to welding.  Many who hold degrees will think that you are a slackard without a sheepskin, but it's what you learn in life that is important.  Sometimes education like this leads to a degree and sometimes it doesn't, but you know that you know. 

I've run into many young professionals who look down their nose at me because I've sawed wood.  Little do they know my past.  It is amusing to watch them act so superior and know that I did their job in another life too. :D

There's a lot of education to be had outside of formal classes in a University too. 

Pick a course somewhere and take it.  You might just end up in Alaska, cruising trees after all.

Riles

I started my forestry degree at age 44. Absolutely loved it. No comparison to the other two times I was a college student. You excel at the things you enjoy.

I can't find a job because I moved away from the place with all my contacts and committed to living in this location where they're not hiring "beginners." So I continue to do things to improve my marketability. I've passed the NC registered forester's exam. I've taken four of the pesticide applicator certification exams. I'm still loving this.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

cantcutter

Quote from: Tom on November 01, 2007, 07:56:11 PM

I've run into many young professionals who look down their nose at me because I've sawed wood.  Little do they know my past.  It is amusing to watch them act so superior and know that I did their job in another life too. :D


Isn't that a great feeling? They look down on you and you can just sit back, grin and think "you sucker".

Geoff Kegerreis

Quote from: wpayne on November 01, 2007, 06:57:08 PM
It's hard to believe four years have passed since I posted this.  It's even harder to believe that this topic is still active.

I'm glad that it is, because eventually someone will have the same question and then they can read this thread, and maybe it will offer them some perspectives on this topic.

QuoteI still dream of walking timber in southeast Alaska every now and then but I plan to scratch that itch with an upcoming vacation.  I enjoy my work but I'm learning to pursue my interests after business hours, on weekends, and during vacations.  So far it's been an acceptable compromise.

...and THAT is what the majority of the population decides to do.  A forestry career is for someone who really wants to work in (and with) the forests and that's a primary goal that will not be compromised by mere mortal values such as money.  :D   





[/quote]
I have an active lifestyle that keeps me away from internet forums these days - If I don't reply, it's not personal - feel free to shoot me an e-mail via my website (on profile) if there is something I can help you with!  :-)

BCCrouch

The fall Michigan SAF conference at the Kellogg Center in East Lansing will (hopefully) address the meat of this thread with it's topic of "The Future of Forestry: Changing Roles of Foresters."  That's a tentative title, so don't hold me to it.

Yes, I'm still plugging away at my nursery work, producing trees & shrubs for discriminating buyers in SE Michigan at Bordines.  And, yes, I still snarl, but I'm now the Second Vice-Chair for the LP MSAF, so I do try to keep it to a nearly subsonic rumble...most of the time.
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

pappy19

Interesting thread. I graduated from Louisiana Tech with a double major of Forestry and Animal Science back in the late 1960's. Back then with the Vietnam War going on, there were more jobs than there were graduate foresters. Short story is that I worked for the Forest Service, Idaho Department of Lands and Idaho DEQ, mostly in private timber sales, administration and erosion control/stream protection. I finally got real tired of the bureaucracy and got a friend of mine to get me hired on a natural gas pipeline project assisting with permits and erosion control. From there I worked for an engineering firm acquiring easements for utility projects and settling damages, overseeing contractors in all types of construction issues and so forth. I believe that a forestry degree is one the best, if not the absolute best, degrees and backgrounds that a right of way agent can have. I have personally hired numerous forestry graduates as "junior" right of way agents. Young graduates just starting out in this field make 4-5 times what a graduate going into the woods will make. As a right of way agent, you will contact and work with all types of rural situations including alot of timber, woodlands, wetlands, farms and associated permitting situations. One thing I have never understood about the academic world is that there are no classes on how to be a good supervisor and what it takes to be one. All college graduates are aiming to become supervisors or managers. The good ones become good generally by accident or they have a good supervisor who showed them how to manage subordinates. Soon after I graduated, I was working on my master's and I taught a class of freshman foresters. I asked the class on the first day why they wanted to become foresters. Almost all of them said because they liked to hunt and fish and be in the woods. I told them if that was the case that they should change their major to banking or insurance as those graduates would have the most time and money to hunt and fish. I then outlined what a young forester would be doing for about 10 years and what kind of salary they could expect. I lost about half of my class over the months as on field days we went out in the woods and worked as foresters. I didn't softsoap any part of the field experience. Two fellow in my class transferred to Humbolt State as they both were heavy into high lead logging and I told them that HS was one of the best there was at the time. Now the present state of forestry and foresters is deplorable, both environmentally and job wise. True forest management is a thing of the past. Federal forests are an insect ridden mess of fire hazards with no means of modern management techniques. Private forests are being either split up into housing developments or high graded for timber, not much in between and not much in the way of management with a few exceptions. Basically the environmental movement of the 70's,80's and 90's was very successful and we will forever be behind the eight ball with forest management; not managing but facing one disaster after another and trying to manage them instead. Sorry for the rant-
2008 F-250 V-10
2007 Lincoln LT
1996 Ford Bronco
Kubota 900 RTV
Shindiawa fan

Riles

Pappy, you might be happy to know that Tech still has a reputation for graduating "timber beasts." The environmentalists go to LSU for their forestry degrees.  All five of them.


Class of '07
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

pappy19

Riles-

That's good to know. Tech had a great forestry school with more field expertise than most forestry schools could offer. I almost went hard core to Paul Smith's, but at that time forest management was in it's heyday in the south. There were 7 mills of one kind or another within 30 miles of Ruston. We were macho peckerwood foresters. When I went west and got to the ponderosa pine and doug fir country, I was humbled for a while, big stuff. No mills left to take any of it now. Where I live in Idaho, Boise-Cascade had nearly 300,000 acres of managed timber lands. They shut down all of their mills and sold all of their timber lands. They blocked it up into 200-300 acres parcels and auctioned them all off. Most of the buyers then clear cut or high graded the timber to pay off the land and what's left is now being roaded and subdivided into small lots. It's a real shame.
2008 F-250 V-10
2007 Lincoln LT
1996 Ford Bronco
Kubota 900 RTV
Shindiawa fan

Phorester


More of the same in my area.  According to the VA Forestry Association, 10 years ago there were about 1,000 sawmills in VA, now about 150.

Across the border in West VA, Westvaco has sold 10's of 1000's of acres of their timberlands.  From what I understand about all have been bought by developers. 

BCCrouch

Quote from: pappy19 on February 29, 2008, 05:16:58 PM

*SNIP*

Sorry for the rant-

"There is not a truth existing that I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." ----Thomas Jefferson

Do not EVER apologize for speaking the truth.  Your former students were blessed with a forthright professor who did not shirk his fiduciary responsibility to the students and their parents who were likely footing the bill.  Would that the present cohort of Ivory Tower types were so honest...  :(
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

SwampDonkey

We don't get developers buying up woodland much here. Although, I do know of one fellow who is trying to sell old company lands in remote areas. He's pushing for fishing and hunting lodge potential. He's probably about 5 decades too late. I know a couple that were 10 years trying to sell their lodge on the Mirimachi R. Hard to sell those places when the forest is all harvested up to within 100 feet of the lakes and salmon rivers. What's left standing blows down from not being so wind firm is wetter soils.  ::) The fishing has changed a lot here in 30 years, which paralleled the increased harvest levels over those years. When you silt up those spawning streams you kill about 95% of the eggs. And only 1 in 8000 eggs survive in good spawn beds to begin with. Didn't matter about low survival of the eggs when you had thousands of fish in the pristine times, now when you have 100 fish returning you barely keep up with mortality rates. If all our adult salmon died after spawning like in the west, the Atlantic salmon would have been long gone by now.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

BCCrouch

The Michigan SAF conference  coming up in October might shed a little light on this subject and if you're in the Great Lakes region or you know a young forester in the Great Lakes region, I'd strongly recommend attending.
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

BCCrouch

Particularly those of you consdering going back to school for a degree in forestry or any other natural resources program.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/03/05/student.loans/index.html

On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

Dezian

Guys, I started studing forestry not even 2 months ago. Preciesly it's "protection of forest resources". Today our dean informed us, that we have to declare which specialization we choose: natural, or industrial. Choosing natural spec we will learn more about botany, species, trees diseases and how to protect trees from them etc. Choosing industrial spec we will be taught forest engineering, forest roads building and depths of reforestation. And here's my dilemma. My heart leans towards natural spec, but I must take into account the chances of finding a job after it. It seems to me that industrial might give me wider perspectives....

I will be thankful for every single one piece of advice  :)
"When I was born I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a half."
--Gracie Allen--

SwampDonkey

Hmm, here in NB we have two Forestry Programs for undergrads. One is Forestry and the Environment and the other is Forest Engineering. Even the engineering course has some overlap including the way the forest grows, responds to disturbance and the species that grow there, including the moss.  Also the soil the trees grow best on and how to identify the soil. How can you apply a dividing line? Interesting.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dezian

Well, I know too less about differences between these specializations. What our dean told us yesterday doesn't really help to make up my mind. I'll try to get more familiar with both specializations and later I'll share with you what I find out. It was said that "Protection of forest resources in natural conditions" predispose to work in reserve nad national parks, when "Protection of forest resources on industrial grounds" pushes us slightly towards private companies. I'm confused,and the worst thing is I don't really know what differences in teaching programme there are  ::) Hope in the evening I will know some more.
"When I was born I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a half."
--Gracie Allen--

Dezian

I've been to dean's office, asked for more info about both specializations. Clearly, a lady sitting on front of me was very busy drinking her coffee, as she gave me a sheet of paper nad called "next"  ;)  Here are the exact differences in teaching programme,they begin with 2nd semester:

"Protection of forest resources in natural conditions"
"Protection of forest resources on industrial grounds"

II semester
Botany
  • lectures 20h
  • indoor excercises 24h

Botany
  • lectures 10h
  • indoor excercises 10h

III semester
--------------
Forest Reclamation
  • lectures 13h
  • indoor excercises 14h
  • outdoor excercises 16h

IV semester
Forest Phytopatology
  • indoor excercises 11h
  • outdoor excercises 16h
Engineering Management of Forest
  • indoor excercises 8h
  • outdoor excercises 12h

Forest Phytopatology
  • indoor excercises 9h
  • outdoor excercises 6h
Engineering Management of Forest
  • indoor excercises 18h
  • outdoor excercises 12h

V semester
Environmental Protection
  • indoor excercises 12h
  • outdoor excercises 8h

Enviromental Protection
  • lectures 4h
  • indoor excercises16h
  • outdoor excercises8h
Ecological Monitoring
  • lectures 12h
  • indoor excercises 10h
  • outdoor excercises 8h

VI semester
Spatial Economy
  • lectures 20h
  • indoor excercises 10h

------------

VII semester
Landscape Formation & Conservation
  • lectures 20h
  • indoor excercises 20h
Legislation of Environmental Protection
  • lectures 15h

Biology and Water Conservation
  • lectures 30h

Sorry for looong post  ;) Now,it seems to me that "Industrial" specialization may give me more useful skills...but I don't know if I'm right.
On my diploma there will be no information about what specialization I've been thru.
"When I was born I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a half."
--Gracie Allen--

SwampDonkey

If the program is accredited by your countries' accreditation body, then your employers will know. Here in Canada that body is the Canadian  Forestry Accreditation Board. One member of that board is the CIF (Canadian Institute of Forestry) who give you an insignia ring to wear. Other members are your Forestry Associations, the ones that register you as a professional forester. You will be called a Forester or Forest Engineer I am assuming. For example it will be designated as BSc. For.  or BSc FE , something like that possibly. As far as credit hours, Forestry has as many or more than most engineering degrees.

I lost my ring stacking firewood.  ::)  :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dezian

The die is cast - "Forestry on industrial grounds" will be my specialization. Honestly, I'm not expecting the difference between specializations to be large...still they say it will be substantial. Time will show.
"When I was born I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a half."
--Gracie Allen--

Phorester


Not knowing what the forestry situation and landowner situation is in Poland I can only offer you my perspective on my own job.

I am employed by a State Forestry Agency to work with private forestland owners.  In the Southern USA well over half of all forestland is privately owned.  In Virginia, about 80% is privately owned, 10% industry owned, 10% government. 

My primary job task is to write forest management plans for private landowners.  I include forest botany, biology, insect and disease problems, soils, past management history, future expectations based on soils and tree species present, etc.  I couple this biological information with what the landowner wants to do with his property - hunting, income from timber sales, recreation, etc., or a combination of these. I give him management recommendations in the plan.  Then I follow through with him over the years helping him carry out as many of these recommendations as he wants to do.  Those recomendations might inculde conducting timber harvests, converting one forest type to another (poor quality hardwood to pine, usually), creating wildlife habitat, tree planting projects, etc.

In the USA the largest employer of Foresters is government - State and Federal.  Private industry is the second largest. Third is educational - college professors etc. Way down the list is self-employment.

Dezian

Thank you Phorester smiley_thumbsup I find these infos helpful. It's important for me to get to know how the job looks like in different parts of the world. You know, I think that IF I find a job after my studies, it will be in one of national parks. That means, the "industrial" specialization may be not the right one for me. But, I belive I will be able to catch up with any shortages in botany or dendrology, whereas the engineer skills I can gain only at the university (I'm not smart enough nor strong-willed to master them single-handed). They may be useful, you never know.

Guys, each one post similar to Phorester's one will be deeply appreciated  :)
"When I was born I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a half."
--Gracie Allen--

MichHunter

As someone interested in a career in forestry, I appreciate everything that has been posted on here over the last few years.  The good, bad, and ugly help me to look at things from different views and attitudes.

Warbird

Hi MichHunter, and welcome to the Forestry Forum.  As you have discovered, there is a wealth of information here.  Pull up a stump and make yourself at home!

jim king

What ever you decide to do is up to you but in my opinion it would not be a wise choice to get into tropical forestry as it is operated by the Non Profit industry and they have never set foot in a jungle.  BUT the pay is good if you want to lean that way and you never get your shoes dirty.

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