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Is forestry a viable career anymore?

Started by wpayne, November 07, 2003, 07:18:25 AM

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wpayne

I know there are jobs out there but how's the future?  I'm a college student (again) after a career change from the computer field and agriculture in general, forestry specifically are all that seem to interest me.  I don't want to waste 4 years or more in school and have to go back to the computer jobs I gladly left.  I guess the title should be "Can I get a job with my forestry degree?" and if not what do I need to do to be a forester?  I have been in the Army before and I'm willing to relocate for the RIGHT job(s) if they aren't available in my area.  Also, what is a day in the life of a "real" forester like?  I know its not an 8 hour nature walk.  That's enough questions for a first post I guess.  Thanks for any input.

Randy

beenthere

Yes, Forestry is a 'viable' career, and the answer to "can I get a job with my forestry degree?" is "maybe".  That depends on you, your portfolio (sounds like it is pretty full already), and the experience you bring with you. i.e., if you were successful in computers, then that should be a real plus when looking for a job with a 'successful' degree in forestry. There are many options in a degree in Forestry. You may want to look at majoring in one or two of them, depending on your interest. Don't find out too late that you are not really interested in a career, because 4 years in studies is too long to waste. Just getting a degree (in Forestry, or anything) isn't in itself a ticket to a job or career.  It just gives you some of the tools to use to support your work if you get the chance.

Jobs in forestry, from my limited aquaintances and experience, is that the 'graduate' gets placed in the field (forest) and works his/her way up into a desk job where the 'new hires' are now the ones in the forest. Seems backwards to have the less experinced in the forest, but probably there are arguments to support both ways.

Good luck in your future decision.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Forester Frank

Forestry is a viable field, and so is the military. Are you in the National Guard? If not, the how come? The Guard can help get you through school and you can spend a weekend a month and two weeks out of the summer serving your country. Your computer experience may help you on the GPS/GIS side of forest mapping - blends well with Cartography.

As long as we have forests we will need foresters!

Take a few classes in Forestry and see how you like it. Start with Dendrology and move on from there. See if you can get an internship or part time job in Forestry with the state, feds, or private industry to give you a feel for what foresters do.

Do you mind being alone? Can you supervise yourself? Do you schedule your time well? You were in the Army, so I am sure you got cold and wet. Foresters generally get cold and wet, but we try to schedule office time on the bad weather days.

Good luck with the career move and don't forget that Michigan State was one of the few teams that beat KU in basketball last year.
Forester Frank

wpayne

I'll look over that Michigan State comment, no need rubbing salt in my wounds... hehe.  UK basketball is a religion round here.

As far as the time scheduling, working alone and self supervision I would have to say, yes, yes and yes.  I prefer to work alone or in small groups and I sure did get cold (and hot, did a tour in AZ) and wet in the army.
  
I've done well in my professional life, army and private sector, and see myself doing well in this as well.  Being able to get a job doing what I go to school for is my greatest concern.  I am quite proficient with computers and technology in general, I had never considered the GIS angle as a plus for me before.  Looks like my computer days weren't useless in this field afterall.  

I got hooked on this career idea while doing tree trimming and cleanup after the ice storm of last spring.  I just wanted more science and less chainsaw.  I was looking into getting my arborist certification and that search led me to forestry.    Forestry had just never been presented to me as a career option before.  "Go, get a computer job they say, this dot com thing will never go bust."  Three bankrupt companies later I was having second thoughts about that advice.

And to answer the first question last, I'm not in the National Guard.  I was medically separated from the Army so they wouldn't want me.  Nothing serious but I'm non-deployable nonetheless.

Sylvus

The short answer is "yes", forestry remains a viable career and probably will for a long time to come.  However, in the short run, I think it's in the trash can.  The economy and budget woes have slashed jobs in just about all sectors.  However, there will likely be a huge turnover from retirees within the next few years and cycles always have upswings after the downswings.  Your computer background will be invaluable.  Willing to move will increase your opportunities many-fold.  There is no such thing as a typical day in the life of a forester.  The field is incredibly diverse.  You might have a field job, office job, a specialty job, etc.  You might try visiting the website for the Society of American Foresters as www.safnet.org.  There is a section on careers.  

beenthere

After learning more about your situation, another suggestion is join the Society of American Foresters (and other forestry related societies, such as the Arborists or Forest Products Society), attend and participate in their meetings, and get to know the graduate foresters from UK.  Visit the alums if possible, and seek part-time (summer) employment, if available, under them or where they are employed, or at jobs they might know about. Let yourself be seen by others, and if they like what they see, you will have a good leg up on future employment, IMO.

We used to work hard getting students to attend our society meetings, even to the point of paying for their travel expenses. When the students were at the meetings, they would act like students  8). So the next step was to get them to talk and have conversations with the others at the meetings (and visa versa) to realize that they were more than just students and they had things to talk about with others, and to look for mentors there.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

wpayne

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm feeling better about forestry already.  I'll have to start networking in the UK alum and any local society meetings ASAP.  

Bud Man

The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

jrdwyer

With your computer background, the GIS aspect of a forestry education or related fields like urban planning should have quite a few job prospects available upon graduation. Our region just started a GIS system. You could end up working for a city, county, or regional government or an engineering firm doing landscape planning. Not traditional forestry, but land use planning that is similar to multiple-use forest planning.

I work as a traditional forester self-employed as a consultant. There are job opportunities in this area, but overall the number of openings avaialble is quite small compared to other fields of study like accounting, medical, ect. So if you stick with traditional forestry, be prepared to search far and wide upon graduation. You will eventually find a good job, but it will take some effort and time to find what you desire.

SwampDonkey

HI:

I recently recieved a newsletter from the Facaulty of Forestry at UNB, New Brunswick and they suggest that most of their graduates have good paying jobs with the average salary of $46,000 CDN. Most of these jobs have been in regions west of Quebec where companies own or manage huge tracts of land. In the last 5 years I've noticed alot of GIS jobs being created for foresters. Seems like a viable career from my perspective.  8)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

BCCrouch

Legitimate natural resource careers are moribund.  Mickey Mouse jobs that pay less than 35k per year and have limited benefits and career potential are less uncommon.  I'd very much like to see survey data from graduates of the top 10 undergraduate natural resource programs in the USA conducted at the 3 and 10 year post-degree points to determine:

1] the percentage of people with a B.S. in Fisheries, Forestry, or Wildlife Management who are still employed within their chosen field;

2] their level of satisfaction and outlook for the future;

3] the reasons the others are not gainfully employed in natural resource management;

Additionally, information from the private sector and government agencies regarding their number of new hires per year versus the number of degreed people being churned out by the universities would be most welcome. By law, all of the above should be provided to every single undergraduate freshman on their first day of class.  All of the above should be updated every 3 or 4 years to keep things current.

Gee, I wonder how all of the Ivory Tower types would react to such a scenario?     ;)
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

Tom

Hey Brian.  Welcome back.  A voice from the deep dark bowels of the forum. :D

Don't hesitate to tell us what you think.  Don't be gentle.  We can take it. :D :D

Tell us how you've been doing and what you're up to.  How's the last few months been treating you? :P :)

BCCrouch

What've I been up to for the past few months? Re-read the post above. I'll give you 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.  
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

Ron Scott

Two Positions on the Ottawa National Forest, Watersmeet & Bessemer

Watersmeet Position
Timber Sales, GS-11
http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=21049150

Bessemer Position
Silviculture, GS-11
http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=21049285

Both of these are open-market postings, USFS experience is not a requirement. Both have closing deadlines of 22 March, 2004.
~Ron

BCCrouch

Thanks, Ron, but you need a good deal of experience to walk into a GS-11 position.  For those of us with policy and educational forestry backgrounds, jumping into field forestry or sales work would require extensive training or an internship to bring us up to speed.
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

Ron Scott

Conservation District Forester Position

Midland and Gladwin Counties are looking to hire a Conservation District Forester.

Depending on workload, flexible work location between Midland and Gladwin.

For information and scope of work for resume, Contact:

Midland Conservation District
1031 E. Saginaw Road
Sanford, MI 48657
989-687-9760
989-687-9678 (fax)
~Ron

JD350Cmark

Randy,

Don't bother looking at any State jobs in Ca.  They are laying off over 200 foresters statewide in the next month or two.  Gov. Arnold is dish'in out the cutbacks.  Good luck.  -Mark
2004 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25

Norwiscutter

Wisconsin DNR currently has a hiring freeze on.  I have two friends that just graduated with forestry degrees...one is putting in septic systems and the other is a climber for a local tree service. Both probably pay better than the forestry jobs around here anyways.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

BCCrouch

Ahh, for the chance to send a message to my younger self back when I was starting my degree in forestry...    :-/
On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

BCCrouch

QuoteLegitimate natural resource careers are moribund.  Mickey Mouse jobs that pay less than 35k per year and have limited benefits and career potential are less uncommon.  I'd very much like to see survey data from graduates of the top 10 undergraduate natural resource programs in the USA conducted at the 3 and 10 year post-degree points to determine:

1] the percentage of people with a B.S. in Fisheries, Forestry, or Wildlife Management who are still employed within their chosen field;

2] their level of satisfaction and outlook for the future;

3] the reasons the others are not gainfully employed in natural resource management;

Additionally, information from the private sector and government agencies regarding their number of new hires per year versus the number of degreed people being churned out by the universities would be most welcome. By law, all of the above should be provided to every single undergraduate freshman on their first day of class.  All of the above should be updated every 3 or 4 years to keep things current.

Gee, I wonder how all of the Ivory Tower types would react to such a scenario?     ;)

I see that no university faculty or extension people have picked up the gauntlet.  Why am I not surprised?  

On the plains of hesitation lay the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of their victory sat down to rest, and resting, died.

redpowerd

it may be because the folks that post here enjoy their mickey mouse jobs and sore backs, and the ones that dont, dont have the time or energy or willpower or working knowledge to enjoy a mickey mouse job and a sore back, eh? ;)
NO FARMERS -- NO FOOD
northern adirondak yankee farmer

Jeff

BCCrouch, I think that good attitude has a lot to do with whether one becomes or can stay gainfully employed in their chosen field. Till now I have kept my mouth shut, but that persistent black cloud of yours just got some sprinkles on me. The Mickey Mouse comment implies that the only important thing in a career is the size of a pay check. I think it has more to do with accomplishment.

Ditto Red.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

Very well said, Jeff.  When one comes upon a snarling dog, one is a little hesitant to engage in a "discussion" rather than just stepping aside. My forestry curriculum covered many subjects including the sciences along with engineering, math, and statistics. English and speech were also thrown in as many subjects are needed (at least they were in the 50's and 60's) to give a pretty 'liberal' education. Most of my college classmates didn't end up in a truly "Forestry" career, and some drifted away into totally different careers. One ended up a top VP in the Weyerhauser organization, and others were top 'dogs' in the Forest Service. Quite a variety, and I trust that most were happy. One or two ended up being preachers, a couple are farming, and a couple others own and operate their own business, unrelated to wood. Another owns and operates a large moulding company.
Per BC's comment about faculty not jumping in on the thread, I often felt a bit sad for some faculty (and highschool teachers) who put their heart and soul into training and developing skills in their students to see them excel and become very successful in their own careers, often many times the salary of the faculty. I am sure they are proud of their students accomplishments too, and those are their rewards. Certainly not monetary rewards.
BC.  Hope you can find something you can enjoy doing, and make money doing it at the same time.  Seek and ye shall find. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

JoeZ

Quote from: BCCrouch on February 14, 2004, 10:01:36 AM
Legitimate natural resource careers are moribund.  Mickey Mouse jobs that pay less than 35k per year and have limited benefits and career potential are less uncommon.

A major reason- that you won't read about in the SAF Journal- is that in most states, any first grade drop out can go harvest timber with little restrictions- and that person can tell the forest owner that he'll "manage the forest" for him. If only qualified licensed and/or registered foresters could manage forests, including all harvesting, you'd see a huge increase in real forestry careers- and you'd see better forests for the long term. Of course, many foresters are not motivated to do great work- they must be weeded out of the profession.

Joe

tonich

Quote from: JoeZ on October 26, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
Of course, many foresters are not motivated to do great work- they must be weeded out of the profession.

But then, wouldn’t be the forest labor market itself that get rid of the unmotivated persons?

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