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Smaller homes....is the McMansion era over?

Started by Piston, August 21, 2010, 03:54:42 AM

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Piston

I have been thinking a lot about 'smaller homes' and I came across this article on yahoo today that made me think some more.  Here is the article from yahoo on the "Death of the McMansion"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Death-of-the-McMansion-Era-of-cnbc-1051033821.html?x=0


It just got me thinking more about living in a modest sized home, not tiny, like some of those 'tiny homes' , but small.  It seems some people consider anything under 2,000 square feet to be for the 'less fortunate'.  I think I would rather a well built smaller home than a low quality larger home with nothing but drywall everywhere. 

This is my own personal preference and I truly don't mean that as an insult for anyone with a larger home that is mostly drywall, for some people I'm sure it is their dream home, so please don't be offended by my own opinions.

My wife and I are planning on building a 'cabin' in NH (have been for quite some time so who knows when :D) and we want to build something around 1000-1500 square feet, with a full basement.  I know that storage is one of the most important things in a small home. 
My 'master plan' is to eventually move up there full time, and I have always thought, okay we'll build a cabin that we could add on to in the future if we were to move up there full time, however the more I think about it, the more I realize that if we just really designed and planned out a really well laid out floorplan, with plenty of storage, we could easily get away with a standard 'smaller sized' home. 

If you were building a small home, or for some that live in one, what would you plan into your design? 

Or what would you change about the small home you live in now? 

Everyone always says, build bigger than you think you'll need, but is this TRULY neccessary? 

What do you think?
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Ron Wenrich

The biggest problem I see with smaller homes is they still want to go the 3 bedroom, 2 bath route.  That leaves all your rooms pretty small.  An open floor plan helps eliminate that feeling. 

Our house is under 2000 sq ft.  Its an old farm house built in the 1850s.  It had a little over 1000 sq ft when I bought it.  An eat in kitchen, a dining room, and a parlor on the first floor, and 2 ½ bedrooms and a bath on the second floor. 

I eventually expanded it to the summer house, and my square footage is still below 2000.  I have a full basement under the house, and never use it.  I have a 3 car garage, a barn, a woodshed and 2 other sheds.  If you need storage, put it into sheds.  Same goes for work areas. 

I never bought into those big houses.  It costs more to build, more to maintain, more to heat, and more in taxes.  I put my money into quality material.  On the addition, I have radiant heat, cherry floors, and pine ceilings.  I even sprung for a couple of closets. 

The older home upgrades included new windows, wooden floors, and better quality appliances.  I also didn't run up any bills, but paid in cash. 

I would go smaller and put the extra money in energy savings.  Go off grid or use solar.  Energy is going to be an expensive commodity in years to come.  Plan accordingly.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Planman1954

I think the major thing to consider would be family size. Are you planning on more children? Will your mother-in-law be moving in with you....plan ahead... you NEVER know what life will bring. Other than that, if you are sure that your situation is semi-permanent, make a list of your basic needs. Put them down on paper...brainstorm with your wife.
That will lead to a list of rooms that you need, as for example, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, a half bath for visitors, etc. You may not need or want a formal dining room...just a kitchen/dining area. That will cut square footage. You may not need a full size laundry room, maybe just a washer dryer area behind some bi-fold doors.
As far as total square footage of the house, smaller sometimes gives a feeling of coziness. You can get lost in a room with a 2 story ceiling! Also, you being up north with a basement, consider the space created by that area and future rooms....game room....movie room... whatever.
Building yourself will save you 10-15% usually...or sometimes quite a bit more than that if you do most of the work. Hope this helps a little.
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Patty

In addition to what size your family is or will be, is to consider raising the ceiling a bit to make the room "feel" more spacious without adding alot of cost. Higher ceilings will keep the claustrophobic feelings at bay.
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And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

Bro. Noble

There are lots of differences in 'small' houses.  A person needs to really do some thinking and looking before he builds a house.  

We used to live in an 8X50 trailer when our first son was born.  It was arranged so that every square inch was used efficiently.  It was small, but we got by very well.

I think one thing people overlook is that a house should be enjoyable to live in.  Such things as landscaping, views, dormers, porches, windows etc can make a crackerbox house into a home with character.

My wife used to teach a class in interior design.  While we were looking at house plans, she was always pointing out serious errors that professionals had made.  We finally selected a plan and made several changes in it.  After living in it a few years, we looked at the original plan and are really glad we made the changes.  A house needs to fit your likes and needs.

There's a house near us that was a typical FHA house.  Rectangular with no character.  A family bought it and built a porch all the way around it with a gazebo like structure on one corner of the porch.  The gazebo is painted yellow with the rest of the house white.  They put up a sign "The Yellow Roxe" at their front gate.  What was once considered a crackerbox house is now considered by some to be a mansion.  Of course the elaborate treehouse they built behind and the old painted up JD antique implements in the yard might help. 8) 8)
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DeepWoods

Let me tell you a short story of our situation.  For 30 years my wife and I lived in a 1400 sq. ft house in the suburbs of Minneapolis.  I had a 1200 sq. ft garage/wood shop and another shed that was 240 sq. ft.  After both of us lost our jobs, (due to outsourcing)  working for a major retailer for the same 30 years.  We decided to move to  our cabin up north, and retire early.  We now live in a cabin that is 384 sq. ft.  Yes, 16 feet by 24 feet.  We have no bedroom, no bathroom, just an outhouse.  Only a wall separates the kitchen area from the bed area.  We had to sell, give away, and donate a large part of our possessions prior to moving to our cabin knowing we would not have any room for them.  I was able to keep my woodworking equipment as we also share another cabin with my wife's son that has a 20 X 48 ft garage. We have been here for over a year now and let me tell you, both of us are happier now then when we had all that room and stuff.

We have talked about adding on a real bedroom and bathroom but I want to take things slow and cut all the lumber for the possible addition myself.  We are on a fixed income, and we don't want to tax ourselves out of our house by adding on too much.  We also pay for everything in cash, so things take a little longer that way.  If we were to have built instead of moving in to what we all ready had, we may have built more storage areas, but we have found that just gives you more space to put more stuff.  Even now we are finding things that we brought with us that we no longer need. 

We did replace the windows with energy efficient ones.  And we also put in new insulation in the walls when we ran the electric into the cabin.  So we are able to heat using about a cord and a half for the entire heating season.  We are much warmer in the winter now then when we lived in the "cities". 

Now some people might think we are "less fortunate" as some of our neighbors on the lake think.  But we think we are very fortunate to have a lot less, and be where we always wanted to be.  There are times when we thank our former employer for eliminating our jobs.  It made it easier in some ways to be forced into our current position than to decide on our own.  If we had to do it all over again we would still take our small cabin vs. a big house with all the stuff.

I guess what I am getting at is one doesn't "need" a big house to be happy.  Even your best laid plans could be changed in the future by things you have no control over.   

Les     
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

Larry

Patty brought up a great suggestion to raise the ceiling to make the house feel more spacious...and interesting.

Our last house was about 1,800 sf with our bedroom on the main level.  The living room had an open stairway to an open loft over looking the living room.  The loft served well as a multi-purpose room over the years.

Were building a new one now a bit larger at 2,100 feet.  Not that we need the room but it seems like 3 bedroom houses are the norm and perhaps the best sellers.  We realize were getting to the age were house maintenance could become a problem, so building to help (we hope) at re-sale time.  We robbed space from two of the bedrooms to help make our bedroom bigger along with the living room.  Considered using 9 foot studs but that adds quite a bit of expense.  Put a trey ceiling in our bedroom and that cost was near zero...bit more labor for me.  Cathedral ceiling in the living room.  Used trusses so we could still insulate to the max.
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Dave Shepard

Piston, have you read any of the "Not so Big House" books by Sarah Susanka? She advocates smaller, well thought out houses. However she seems to suggest taking the saved money and making the smaller house more extravagant, which I'm not sure I follow along with. There are houses, and then there are homes. Most big, flaunt your money houses are not homes. They are not comfortable spaces.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Norm

When we built our house in 01 the plans called for 9' ceilings on both levels (2 story) and I questioned that too. Now having lived here for some years am glad we did but the additional costs are not slight because everything is made for a standard 8' one. One thing I didn't do was have the basement poured to 9', and have really regretted that. It has steel I-beams under the joists and that makes it down to 7' where they run.

Now if someone wants a big house or a small house I could care less. I don't give much thought to how others spend their money be it on housing, vacations or toys.  :)

paul case

i think open floor plans make small homes look bigger and more spacious. our house has a kitchen dining room and living room with no seperations 24' x 24'. holds a lot of company comfortably.
something else we did was to do away with a utility room. water heater and pressure tank are under the counter in one bathroom . it also hides the breaker box and has the washer and dryer in it.
my house would list  as 4 bed 3 bath with a large family room and large living room all in 1976 sq ft.  pc
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SwampDonkey

As far as space and family, I've seen a lot of family pack into a small house. When I was going to school on the school bus we stopped at one house each day with 6 kids boarding the bus from a small two story house. I'd guess about half the size of my main part of this house. I still have two attics and a garage (old wood shed conversion) on this place.


If this place burnt down, I would never build as big and no basement. All one floor with in floor heating, garage and storage.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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Holmes

I would build a 3 bed room 2 bathroom ranch with a full basement. I would put in 2 lb. density spray foam insulation in all walls and roof, good windows , good doors, and radiant heat. Spending the money up front for high quality heating and insulation will save a lot in future heating costs. I do not like the open concept , you get no privacy. Holmes
Think like a farmer.

Dave Shepard

A friend of mine built a house a couple of years ago and put it on a 9' foundation. That makes the basement usable. A worthwhile investment in my opinion.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

T Red

Quote from: Piston on August 21, 2010, 03:54:42 AM
Everyone always says, build bigger than you think you'll need, but is this TRULY neccessary? 


For storage I believe that is a true statement. 

Tim

ihookem

I hope the monster houses  are over. I think they are ugly and many want to go so big they end up with vinyl siding and cheap windows. My wife and I went with 2200 sq. ft ranch and put in quality. It is all brick and hip roof. I think it is plenty for us four. I even thought of going smaller some day like 1500 sq. ft.

Dave Shepard

Build what you need for right now, and pay for as much of it as you can. If you need more, then build it later. No sense in taking a mortgage on the whole package all at once and paying back four fold. What you save on the first installment will pay for the next expansion, without the bank getting any more than necessary.
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Okrafarmer

I used to think I wanted a big big house and all the money to maintain it-- three stories, cathedral ceiling, 8 or 10 bedrooms, you name it, basically a palace. Now I just wish I could be out of this 1400 sq. foot house and out of debt. We only owe on the house-- we paid $68,000 for it four years ago and have barely paid $5,000 on the principal-- no downpayment-- my wife and I agree if we could just buy a cheap plot of 10-20 acres we'd live in travel trailers, sheds, lean-tos, whatever it took to just get us out of debt. And yes, we have four kids and probably aren't done yet.

Just give us freedom, and take your debt and shove it! I never intend to go into debt again, and if I can ever get rid of this house, we'll be debt-free!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

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Don_Papenburg

we're DEBT FREE!!!!!!!    Has a good sound.     Only the sheds need to be big. ;D ;D
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Radar67

My neighbor just can't understand why it is taking me so long to get my house built. I prefer the pay as you go method, while he is sitting a quater million in debt for a house that may be worth $150,000 right now.  ;) I'll just keep gathering my material and making my plans.

As for the small houses, I have lived in cracker boxes for most of my life, it's time to get 2500 square feet plus under me.  ;)
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

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This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

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Piston

Some great suggestions and thanks for sharing your views and advice.   8)
My wife and I are thinking about building a small 2 bdrm 1.5 bath cabin, with the bedrooms upstairs and an open floor plan below.  We want it to be efficient enough to heat with central woodstove.  I love the 'super efficient' ideas but sometimes I worry that not enough 'fresh' air is passing through the home.  Jack Sobon has some really good points on that. 

We don't have any kids yet but are planning on it soon. 8)  That's one of my main concerns with space because since we aren't parents yet we really don't know what to expect.  We are thinking that if we put up a 2 bdrm cabin then this would be great for our 'vactioning' needs but if we do decide to live up there permanently then we could add a first floor master to the downstairs.  Since I really don't plan on ever getting rid of this land then I do think the cabin we build will be there for the rest of our lives (with any luck anyways.)
I want to build it right and make it comfortable but cozy.  My wife really likes the smaller 'cozy' feel and loves the look of the 'primitive' look on the inside of a rustic cabin.  She is excellent at decorating and we want to incorporate some of her 'primitive' syle decorating into the design. 

We currently live in a house just under 1500 square feet and there is much more room for us and our 3 dogs than we need.
We have a formal dining room that we have probably eaten in 25 times in the 4 yrs we've lived in the home.
I've learned that for me, a full (dry) basement is a must.  My wife has learned that a first floor washer and dryer is mandatory for her.  Having our 'less than ideal' home that we live in now has taught us many things that we like and don't like in a home.  My wife has turned our fairly bland house into a cozy, primitively styled home...it's amazing the 'eye' she has for decorating.

However, like I said before we don't have kids yet, so after we do maybe we'll change our mind about a smaller home, but we both hope not. 

It's great to get other people's ideas and advice on something like this because there are SO many things that we haven't thought of, I think everytime I talk to someone I get a new idea.  We are just starting to make our 'lists' of things we want, need, and also what we don't want. 

The latest issue of 'home building' has some great storage ideas in it, however those guys make it look too easy.  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Piston

Quote from: Don_Papenburg on August 22, 2010, 12:15:25 AM
we're DEBT FREE!!!!!!!    Has a good sound.     Only the sheds need to be big. ;D ;D

God I hope I can say that someday! 

Deepwoods:  That is awesome you and your wife are having such a great time in your small home.  I love hearing stories like that as it shows you don't need all the materialistic things in life to be happy.  I need to remind myself of that often, I do like my toys and extras but I need to appreciate the smaller things in life more.  Your an inspiration to us all  8)


Dave:
I haven't read her book but have seen them somewhere.  I also saw that Yestermorrow has some sort of class on smaller homes I believe. 

We do want to plan as much as we can but also keep things open to change, as you all have pointed out we really dont' know what our needs will be in the future so we need to keep an open mind.  I'm still young and dumb and I want to learn more from other peoples mistakes rather than my own.   ;D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

tree-farmer

No one solution is right for everyone, but if possible I would recomend a "pay as you go method of building". Wife and I bought 10 acres of land at the end of a mile long dirt road and began step by step to make a home. First was dirveway to the building site, septic system and tank, drilling well, each of these were paid for as we went forward (this represents about 4 years). Meanwhile lived on a budget and saved as much cash as possible. Finally had enough to start house consturction. Borrowed against old house and built new house over a years time. Not huge (about 1500 sq ft) but well built (2x6 walls, good windows, passive solar). Sold old house paid off loan and walked away with cash. This all took nearly 6 years but we have never had a morgage on this house. Have added 20 more acres of land since,  purchased with money not going to mortgage. Building was our big adventure, and it worked out well.

My moto is " if you can't afford it, you can't afford it with interest"

side note (with passive solar, wood stove with small gas heater for backup our heating runs less than $500 per year)
Old doesn't bother me, its the ugly that's a real bummer.

Roxie

Every family is different, but in my family we always end up in the kitchen.  My ideal home would have a huge kitchen with open family room, and no living or dining room at all.  It would have a laundry area on the first floor as well as a master bedroom with bath.  There would be a closet by every entrance and a two car garage.  I also dream of a walk up finished attic like they had in the old days.  A full basement with outside walk out would be awesome.  Another thing I've noticed that homes today usually don't have designed into them is a proper front porch.  The most comfortable homes that I've ever lived in all had a front porch for sitting, rocking and thinking.  
Say when

SwampDonkey

I agree on the porch idea, most put what they call a deck on and you never see a sole use them. Who wants to sit in the hot sun beaming down on them? That's why they don't get used unless they run in and out to the BBQ.  ;)

Jeff I wish I could show ya a camp that was built out of white cedar. An old fellow took me there some years ago on the Renous River. Even the door, is a great big door made out of cedar.   Oh, and the yard had bird's eye figured maple when we were there, standing live trees.  :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

scgargoyle

I read somewhere that 500 sq ft per person is about right, and that seems to be true. Our house is about 1500 sq ft for 3 people, and we have plenty of room. In fact, a second child wouldn't have cramped our style any. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, as I am planning to build on our land in SC. I keep coming up with 1200 sq ft for the two of us, which to me is luxurious. There will only be 3 major rooms- the living room, the kitchen, and the bedroom. With a full basement under the house, we can always add a second bedroom in case the boy moves back in with us.  :D Our focus was primarily on a nice piece of land, and a sturdy, energy-efficient house that we can grow old in. If we run short on money, well, I'll guess I'll just build smaller, but their will be NO mortgage!
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

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