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M-14 shaft sizing

Started by Birk-man, August 17, 2010, 04:42:10 PM

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Birk-man

Hi all,

I found pulleys at the scrap yard to slow down my engine speed to the right range (540rpm) for my blade, a 40" with 24 inserted teeth. 

The M-14 mill uses a 1 3/8" shaft standard but I'm wondering about converting to 1 1/2"?  I found a 28" pulley which will be heavy and wonder if the bearings on the 1 3/8 shaft would handle the weight of the big pulley on one end and the saw blade on the other?

The larger pulley is 28" in diameter & the smaller is 11.25".

I am considering using three 145" 'B' belts with the 50 hp Deutz diesel as the power plant.  They should end up about 40.8" center to center with that length belt.  Thinking of a Lovejoy type belt tensioner (idler) in the system so I can adjust the lead on the blade without having to redo belt tension adjustments.

Peter Wendel

Here's a photo of the two pulleys -

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2942&pos=1

Ron Wenrich

You can just add the photos to your post.  





I don't see the advantage of going to the heavier mandrel.  The expense is probably higher than what you expect. 

I have yet to see bearings go out on a mill.  But, they do go out, and usually its from either too much grease or not enough.  If you think there's a big problem, then put a 3rd bearing on it. 

How often do you expect to change your lead?  When we do the occasional tweaking of the lead, we don't lose much tension in the belts.  You'll lose more tension from normal wear and tear vs lead changing.   
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Birk-man

Hi Ron,

I tried to add the photo to my post without success - is there a secret handshake I need to learn?  Can you walk me through how to do that?

Thanks for your observations on the shaft size-change.  It's all food for thought at this point.

Peter


bandmiller2

Peter,your arbor and bearings should have no trouble with those pulleys.I would put the arbor pulley close to the bearing.Alot of strain can be taken off the arbor with a pillow block bearing outside the big pulley and an adjustable rod going to the engine gearbox,keeps it from flexing under load. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Ron Wenrich

Not a secret handshake.  When you have come to your photo on the gallery, look below and you'll see the following:

Click here to copy this photo code directly to your Forestry Forum post window

Simply hit that and the code will come up in your post.  That will put the photo on your post.

If that doesn't work, there is a plan B.  Go down to the white box that has an [IMG] statement.  Simply copy the whole code and paste that in your post. 

Here's the thread on posting pictures:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,23851.0.html

Next to last post on page 1 by Jeff will give you the visual.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Joe Lallande

When I converted my Belsaw from the flat belt system to V belts and pullies, I wanted to move the engine away from the mill frame. With your current approach, the engine will be very close to the mill. Do a search for Oliver diesel engine and you will see my set up using a cross shaft and tractor drive shaft. I use three C belts and after several hours of steady cutting, they are warm. I can e mail additional pictures.   Good luck.

Birk-man

Hello Joe,

I found your pictures - nice set up!

You said you wanted to move the engine further away from the mill.  I don't have a lot of extra space to move the engine further away but could consider it - what do you see as the advantage of more space between engine and mill?

With the reversing speed reduction unit on my PTO I can have the output end of the engine towards the mill and have the correct rotation for the blade shaft.

I'll be running three 145" 'B' belts between  11.25" and  28" pulleys - you also have a large pulley in your system that has high inertia - does it complicate engaging the drive with the clutch to have that extra mass?  Or does that extra weight act like a flywheel and help maintain momentum through tougher cuts?

Peter

apm

Hi Peter, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I think you'll find that the mandrel is only 1-3/8" at the saw collar end. I think it's 1-3/4" the rest of the length. That would make a difference on the pulley collar sizes.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Joe Lallande

My Oliver diesel turns CCW so I had to turn the engine around.  Having extra room between the engine and the mill allowed me to mount the saw dust blower without any bends in the pipe. I was able to use a standard size tractor drive shaft. I had a couple of the shaft adapters made. I used Stanford Lunstrum's guide to circular sawmills to size my belts and pullies. I also know the owners of a family saw mill in town and was able to look at their installations. They had a room full of good belts and pullies that I was able to use. I engage the PTO at a high idle to loosen things up then I set the RPM I need. I cut a couple of 18" white oak today. Did your mill come with a frame? The angle iron track on my mill was off and when I first tried to cut a large log and it would hang up mid way.  I had to hacksaw the angle iron and grind it to allow the carriage to move freely. Make sure your track is aligned. Good luck.

Birk-man

Quote from: apm on August 18, 2010, 01:34:51 PM
Hi Peter, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I think you'll find that the mandrel is only 1-3/8" at the saw collar end. I think it's 1-3/4" the rest of the length. That would make a difference on the pulley collar sizes.

Greg


Hi Greg,

No argument - I still have the M-14 packed in the shipping crate - so your clarification of the shaft size is very helpful!  I'll have to unpack the box this weekend and become more familiar with all the parts.

Thanks for the tip!

Peter


captain_crunch

Birk-man
Your Bellsaw in pallet did not come from the Sawmill exchange people did it ?? There was a Bellsaw listed in Oregon in that condition only Brand new one I have heard of
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Birk-man

Cap'n,

I watched eBay for several years before this saw came up for auction.  I had a price limit and I wanted to be able to drive to bring it home myself.  It came to me via eBay and Bidadoo Auctions in Seattle.  The box just fit my trailer so it was an easy haul to pick it up.

I started dismantling the crate last night - looks like I might have some extra parts to figure out where they might fit.  All the nuts and bolts are in two ziplock bags so I anticipate that this is going to be a big puzzle to put together with the limited diagrams I got with the mill. 

Birk-man

captain_crunch

send me a pm with your E-mail ifn I can get it to work I have assembly manual that Two Ladys Sawyers sent me saved on my computer.  Where around Corvallis are you ?? I am in Lorane about 18 miles South of Veneta
Brian
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

captain_crunch

Birk-man
I sent the file to you at around 10:00 tonite. Look in My Gallery there are lots of bellsaw pics but mine has been modified added carrage added track and hyd drive on carrage. So if you have any questions I mgiht have some pics that may help
Brian
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

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