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TSI Saw

Started by BlaBla, August 16, 2010, 07:03:54 PM

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BlaBla

I'm in the market for a small TSI saw. I think I'm looking for a Stihl MS 170/180 or Husqvarna 235. I have used an MS 180 but was a little disappointed with it being underpowered compared to the old 011 I also used (but this was in heavy blackjack oak territory and probably wouldn't be as much of a concern in eastern IL). The Stihl sales guy also tried to sell me a top handle arborist saw (192?) for the job, but it seems leverage could be an issue here, though weight certainly wouldn't be!

So...I'm looking for a reliable, lightweight saw that can handle the job without breaking the bank. Any suggestions/concerns about the saws above or others that might be fit for the job?

Thanks

Rocky_J

What does TSI mean?  ???

sprucebunny

TSI= Timber Stand Improvement.

The Stihl 180 is a great little saw. I have 3. But the chain oiler has been testy.

I love my Stihl 210 but the 211 is all that's available here, now. It's supposed to be the same but 'greener' or something.

The weight is only slightly more than the 180 with better power and reliable oiling.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

441FELLER

I would deff. recommend the MS200 not the 200T but plain 200, professional internals and plenty of ass! try it with the e-light bar made with car.fib. makes a great carver too.

Ed

What 441FELLER said...as long as price isn't an issue. The rear handle ms192 is also an option, slower than the ms200, but much cheaper.

Ed

SawTroll

Quote from: sprucebunny on August 16, 2010, 07:22:47 PM
TSI= Timber Stand Improvement.

The Stihl 180 is a great little saw. I have 3. But the chain oiler has been testy.

I love my Stihl 210 but the 211 is all that's available here, now. It's supposed to be the same but 'greener' or something.

The weight is only slightly more than the 180 with better power and reliable oiling.

None of those are anywhere near "great" - they all are cheap consumer saws, and pretty crappy ones into the bargain..... ;) :)
Information collector.

SawTroll

Quote from: sprucebunny on August 16, 2010, 07:22:47 PM
TSI= Timber Stand Improvement.
........

Could mean something totally different as well, if my memory serves - that is why I looked at this thread at all....... :)
Information collector.

Al_Smith

I've never heard of TSI saw either .Given that though it could be anything from a Mini Mac to an 084 Stihl depending on how much improvement was neccessary . :D

Cut4fun

google is my friend. Just typed in TSI saw chainsaw and got Maine and KY sites 1-2

http://www.maineforestry.net/Forestry%20Items/timber_stand_impr.htm

Al_Smith

Must be a Maine thing, here in the buckeye we just let them grow .

Ed

Depending on the size of trees to be cut, a clearing saw would be an option also.

Ed

Cut4fun

Down the road from me Al, they did a pine thicket I call it. Pecker pole size but tall, just like they show in that Maine link.  They left 1 tree standing every so often.

tlandrum

sometimes when i am doing a clear cut the prescription calls for leaving seed trees every so often. that is probably what was left on the site your talking about.
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John Mc

Around here, TSI (Timber Stand Improvement) refers to work you in between commercial harvests to improve the quality of the stand. Pre-commercial thinning, crop tree release, and etc. are things that would fall under the description of TSI. A regeneration cut or the actual commercial harvest would not generally fall under this description.

I've never heard of a "TSI saw", however. TSI work varies greatly. The type of saw best suited to the job would vary greatly depending on the type of work you were doing.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

saw_nut

For that type of work I use a Husky 250 clearing saw and the Husky 242/246 chainsaw. My next new saw will be a Redmax GZ4500.

nhlogga

Husky 357 is what my dad uses for TSI. 346 Husky would work good too.
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Al_Smith

Quote from: Cut4fun on August 19, 2010, 10:55:03 AM
Down the road from me Al, they did a pine thicket I call it. Pecker pole size but tall, just like they show in that Maine link.  They left 1 tree standing every so often.
I saw that last time I went over to visit and thought it rather odd . ???

I think I get the drift .TSI and thinning must be one in the same .Fine perhaps on some species but in these giant oaks that take several life times to mature,pretty much a waste of time .

Mother nature thins the herd in these parts .You get to fiddling with the eco system of a hardwood stand you pretty much screw it up .Thin it out to get better timber then you get little short fat trees .Keep in mind though it takes about 2 hundred years .

John Mc

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 25, 2010, 09:48:37 PM
I think I get the drift .TSI and thinning must be one in the same .Fine perhaps on some species but in these giant oaks that take several life times to mature,pretty much a waste of time .

Mother nature thins the herd in these parts .You get to fiddling with the eco system of a hardwood stand you pretty much screw it up .Thin it out to get better timber then you get little short fat trees .Keep in mind though it takes about 2 hundred years .

TSI work is pretty common around here in hardwood stands. Done wrong, you might get the results you describe. Done right, the trees grow faster, and with good form... including oaks.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ianab

Done wrong it's easy enough to dis-improve for sure.

But if you are walking through your re-generating forest and see a sapling thats large (going to be a dominant tree) but has lousy form, forked and banana shaped. You think heck, thats going to be worthless in 200 years, so you cut it down and leave the space for the better tree beside it, you have done some simple TSI.

Spending 200 years watching a worthless tree grow doesn't make any business sense, even if you are not the one thats going to see the end result.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Al_Smith

Well  on hardwoods or at least in these parts it is selective cutting,not the whole stand .It could go on for eons of time . You take the prime trees then maybe 10-20-30-40 years later get some more .

My kin folks over near C-4 Fun have been logging an 820 acre  stand for as long as anyone can remember .Fact is I had some pics on another site of the stumps of white oaks that were cut in 1937 . I put a few of them down myself but not  in '37 .Those were days B-A --before Al . ;)

John Mc

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 26, 2010, 09:01:25 PM
Well  on hardwoods or at least in these parts it is selective cutting,not the whole stand .It could go on for eons of time . You take the prime trees then maybe 10-20-30-40 years later get some more .

For a TSI job, it's generally just the opposite: you take the worst trees, and leave the best. The idea is to reduce the competition for sunlight, water and nutrients to your best trees. This description is an over simplification. The real foresters on here can probably describe it much better than I.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

 :D Oh I know what is they just don't do it these parts .Thinning around here is dropping a storm broken tree  and on occasion cleaning out the dead ones .

You have to remember thouh this is in the eastern portion of the "corn " belt not some high producing lumber region although some of the best hardwoods come from here .

If I'm not mistaken  though thinning is practiced more towards the eastern portion of Ohio where the pines grow . They might get pretty decent pines in 40-60 years where as a good hardwood takes maybe twice 3 times that long . Pines would do good around here but corn has a "pay day" once a year where pines only pays once a generation .

John Mc

I grew up in NW Ohio, right on the shore of what was once the "Black Swamp". Great corn and soybean country, and flat as a board. Not much in the way of forests, though.

I guess we've strayed pretty far from "TSI saws" here, however.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

Quote from: John Mc on August 27, 2010, 09:01:22 PM
I grew up in NW Ohio, right on the shore of what was once the "Black Swamp". Great corn and soybean country, and flat as a board. Not much in the way of forests, though.



John Mc
That as a matter of fact is exactly where I'm at ,the southern end of same and yes there still are giant oaks .However thinning is not,as I said before ,practiced TSI saws or no .Those 10 to 50 acre patchs are selectively cut .

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