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chain spun backwards

Started by chep, August 14, 2010, 10:39:16 AM

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chep

Hey all,
  Along with tree work I have been putting some hours in the woods as a subcontracting faller. The other day after running several tanks of fuel through,  I again fueled up my saw (372) and fired it up. I went to make a cut on some brush and realized my chain was spinning backwards... I checked twice, dont worry. I shut it down. Waited a second and then fired it back up, the chain spun the right way.
  I am a bit concerned about this. Can anyone diagnose this problem. It has not happened again and I was a bit confused.
thanks

ladylake

Not to worry, most 2 cycle engines will do that , they make spark just before the piston get to the top and if you don't pull it over fast enough the ignition will force the piston back down the wrong way.  If you've had the starter cord kick back when trying to start it that's what it's doing.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

boobap

Wow, I have never experienced or heard of that...it sounds extremely dangerous if one was to try and cut at WOT with that happening...

Al_Smith

It's pretty rare but they will run backwards .Because of the way the clutch is mounted ,on most saws  it could spin the clutch loose .Not good .

Rocky_J

You won't cut much and the motor won't rev up very well since the timing will be so far off (after TDC instead of before TDC).

ladylake

 Thats how they get reverse on some snowmobiles and golf carts. Change the timing a tad and they reverse themselfs.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Al_Smith

They just start the EZ-go's up backwards .  I would imagine the ignition would work both ways on them . Could be a double points system or something similar .

On most saws though because of the way the recoil works ,they won't run backwards because the mechanism would prevent it from  . In the days of two cycle karts running alki/nitro they used a long shaft Ford starter and a vee belt .They had way too much comp to roll by hand unless you were superman .Those would take off in the wrong direction some times .

Rather comical on a twin engine kart without a live axle .They would hit the throttle and they would "zero " turn just like a bull dozer . :D

John Mc

Quote from: ladylake on August 14, 2010, 11:57:46 AM
Not to worry, most 2 cycle engines will do that , they make spark just before the piston get to the top and if you don't pull it over fast enough the ignition will force the piston back down the wrong way.  If you've had the starter cord kick back when trying to start it that's what it's doing.   Steve

Thanks for that bit of info, Steve. A rather slightly built lady I sometimes cut firewood with has trouble starting her Husky 51. You wouldn't think a 50cc saw would be tough, but it is for her. It was stiff the first few times I ran it (it had sat for almost a year), but now seems normal to me. I suspect she's too slow at the beginning of her attempt to pull. She often comes up against that first compression "bump" and stops dead (sometimes with the handle popping out of her hand). We've debated trying to add a decompression valve to it, but she hasn't gone to that expense yet. I wonder if she concentrates on getting a bit more speed on the pull to start with, it will make a difference.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Rocky_J

It goes against what the schoolbook preachers will tell you, but in my opinion drop starting is not only easier but safer than trying to set the saw on the ground and pull the rope from a static position. If somebody showed her the proper dropstarting technique then she could easily start her saw.

Oh boy, here come the fireworks!  8)

chep

Thanks for the replies. I feel a bit better about it now... iS is there anything that could be worn and instigating this odd performance? What should I be lookin at?
  Take your dropstarting argument to a different thread!
regards
chep

easymoney

i once put a chain on backwards. they dont cut very well that way. i wonder why?
i probably am the only one that has done that.

John Mc

Rocky -

I know you are a big fan of drop starting. She's just not comfortable trying it, and I don't use it (my largest saw is a 357XP, and easy to start) so am not the one to teach her the proper technique.

I've seen a couple of guys who give me nightmares with their drop starting technique. One guy is just flailing all over the place, with the saw swinging in various directions. No two starts look the same. He claims to have the saw "in control" -- but has nicked his chaps on at least one occasion that I've seen, and taken a chunk out of the visor on his helmet on another. Both happened when starting a saw. You'd think this would be a warning to him that his technique needs a little adjustment. The only thing he leaned from this is that "It's a good thing I always wear my safety gear". I can't argue with that... it's a DanG good thing he wears it. But he's still a good candidate for the Darwin Award for chainsaw starting.

From the description you gave on here once, I realize your technique is nothing like this, but I can see why the idea of drop starting scares her. The examples she has witnessed are not good ones.

John Mc

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

tyb525

easymoney, I have put a chain on backwards multiple times. And then I get frustrated for a few seconds wondering why my freshly sharpened chain won't cut! :D

I've never experienced that saw running backwards thing, however I have wondered before if that was possible.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

beenthere

Quote from: Rocky_J on August 15, 2010, 08:07:30 AM
It goes against what the schoolbook preachers will tell you, but in my opinion drop starting is not only easier but safer than trying to set the saw on the ground and pull the rope from a static position. If somebody showed her the proper dropstarting technique then she could easily start her saw.

Oh boy, here come the fireworks!  8)

I agree with your opinion. From my experience, there is as much control of the saw as placing it on the ground. Maybe there are some videos of someone "drop" starting while flailing the saw around. But I doubt that can really happen.  Anyone have any?

I can see where putting the saw on the ground, with toe in the handle, and giving slower pulls on the starter rope, could let the saw fire in reverse. Not so with drop starting.  IMO

Had to "ground" start when I was taking the GOL school training. Ugh!

Edit
Rocky, that is a good video showing safe drop-starting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJV4uaFuwV8&feature=player_embedded#!
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

John Mc

Chep - sorry, I had already posted my earlier response before I saw your request not to get off on the drop start tangent in this thread. I'll leave further comments/questions on that technique for another thread.

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Bro. Noble

Well, will this thread be allowed to stray into the topic of food? 
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Al_Smith

Quote from: easymoney on August 15, 2010, 09:02:57 AM
i once put a chain on backwards. they dont cut very well that way. i wonder why?
i probably am the only one that has done that.
No I don't think so .Some may allude to the fact and argue up and down they never have but truth be known just about everyone has ,at least once .

John Mc

Quote from: Bro.  Noble on August 15, 2010, 02:29:51 PM
Well, will this thread be allowed to stray into the topic of food? 

I thought that was a requirement for any topic on this board -- or at least for any topic over 1 page long?

John Mc
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Frickman

That felow in the youtube video is doing it backwards. The saw can start and go right into his leg. He should have it turned around the other way and switch positions with his hands.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Rocky_J

Quote from: chep on August 15, 2010, 09:02:42 AM
Thanks for the replies. I feel a bit better about it now... iS is there anything that could be worn and instigating this odd performance? What should I be lookin at?
  Take your dropstarting argument to a different thread!
regards
chep
I am trying to respect the original poster's request so I started another thread to discuss drop starting. Please take any and all drop starting discussions to that thread.

beenthere, I think it was rude of you to repost the video in this thread right after Chep asked that we not discuss it here.

beenthere

Quote from: Rocky_J on August 15, 2010, 07:05:57 PM
I am trying to respect the original poster's request so I started another thread to discuss drop starting. Please take any and all drop starting discussions to that thread.

beenthere, I think it was rude of you to repost the video in this thread right after Chep asked that we not discuss it here.

So be it.  :)  With due respect, I felt that video explained the technique well enough, and was well demonstrated, that it was safe, and tied this discussion up well. Didn't mean to be rude, but didn't want it to be left hanging for future readers either.
Color me whatever you wish.  :)

But I like green best.  ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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