iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Conservation District Foresters?

Started by Jeff, November 04, 2003, 02:17:00 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jeff

Ron and the other foresters may at times will recommend Conservation District Foresters as an answer to a question.  

My question is why?  What will they do for you? What will they look at? Are they available everywhere in the country? Are they providing a service without cost? If so how are they paid?

Why do we sometimes recommend Conservation District Foresters instead of trying to answer the question asked?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Its pretty hard for me to answer a question about markets or some forest practices in an area.  I can give you my opinion based on my experience and area, but it doesn't mean it will apply to every area.  

For example, aspen is great in your area, so you manage for it.  In my area, its a weed species and we try not to grow it.

Extension offices used to be run by the Soil Conservation Service.  They were pretty knowledgable folks.  That has been phased out, and extension offices are run by land grant colleges.  

They handle a variety of local issues.  They have master gardeners on staff, as well as home economists, foresters, and other specialists, depending on the area.  They also conduct local seminars in a variety of topics.

The reason we recommend the extension agency is that they are a close, unbiased information source for landowners.  They can also give direction on where to find assistance.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

I wanted to start a thread to where we can point folks that might not understand why we would defer a question.  Can we add to this by perhaps explaining what to expect from a forester, or what might occur when he arrives at your property? The things he might look at, or for, or things he may do, the types of questions he might have for you, information that you might prepare for him that would help him evaluate the Forestry questions presented to him?

Read my Signature. ;D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Scott

Forestry is not an exact science and the more site specific information available, the better management prescription can be made to meet a landowners objectives.

Conservation District Foresters are located to provide resource management assistance to private nonindustrial forest landowners in most counties in Michigan depending upon funds available to finance their positions.

Private landowner assistance may also be provided by the Michigan DNR Service Foresters, Extension Service, Industry Foresters, and of course Professional Consulting Foresters.

It can be said that all the "free" services provided at taxpayers expense is in competition with the professional consulting forester trying to make a living providing forest land and resource management, but landowners need site specific advice and management direction wherever and however they can get it.

Landowners need to make informed management choices which must begin by asking the right people the right questions and getting the right information.

Conservation District Foresters are provided through the Cooperative Resource Management Inititive (CRMI) that combines the strengths of state and local agencies to provide technical assistance and resources, educations and outreach to citizens, landowners, and communities throughout the state.

Conservation District Resource Professionals give management advice, and then usually refer landowners to others to provide the actual service.

It is most difficult to give exact management direction without knowing or seeing all the intigrated components of the ecosystem involved. Thus I will refer to the "local" conservation district forester as the first line of contact for "good" and "free" advice.

Private landowners should know of the services they provide.
~Ron

Ron Wenrich

So, you're basically asking how a landowner goes about getting forestry assistance.

A lot of foresters are hired guns.  Procurement (industry) foresters are charged with purchasing timber for their operations.  Sometimes a good management job comes with the purchase of timber, sometimes not.

Consulting foresters normally work for the landowner.  I have done procurement work as a consultant for loggers.  It just depends on who is paying the bill.  Landowners have to put a lot of trust in the forester they use, whether industry, consulting or public (state, county or extension).

The first question a landowner asks should not be "How much are my trees worth"?  In some cases, they are worth as much as you want them to be.  Just don't undershoot your market.  

Another question to avoid at first is "Is my timber mature"?  That is like asking "Can you sell my trees"?  

Before you even talk to a forester or logger, you have to make a few decisions.  What are your long term goals for your forest?  Recreation, wildlfe, timber production, aesthetics are all important forest products.  Timber products usually lag the other goals.  

What forest practices will you allow on your propery?  Clearcuts, even-aged management, uneven-aged management, periodic thinnings, tree planting, timber stad improvement are all practices that should be considered.  All have pluses and minuses.  Have them explained to you (extension agent can be a big help).

Are you looking for an income stream?  Income can come from a variety of sources (firewood, timber, maple syrup, ginseng, mushrooms, hunting rights, etc).  How much labor are you willing to supply?  If you do your own TSI work, you can save money and have firewood to boot.  

What are the immediate needs for your forest in order to optimize your long term goals?  Not every forest needs a sawtimber thinning.  Some may just need vine removal or nothing.

So, it comes time to get a forester.  Check his credentials and check references.  Foresters have a minimum of a BS degree in forestry from an accredited college.  Some states require licensing.  Present him with your goals, and see where he wants to go.

I would shy away from anybody who just walks through the woods and gives out a management plan with no data to back it up.  That is pant's seat forestry.  Each tract is different, each landowner's objectives are different.  Data gathering isn't that hard, and it allows the forester to get really acquainted with your property.

A management plan is a really good way to start.  It should include a mapping of the property, timber inventory and appraisal.  It should also include the stocking levels, growth rates and regeneration,   From growth rates, stand conditions can be projected into the future.  Current prescriptions should be made to address the future conditions.  Management plans should be updated every 10 years or so.

Reasons for harvesting can include over-mature timber, thinning to enhance growth in crop trees, stand conversion (hardwood to pine, for example), disease, bugs, damaged trees, poorly stocked stands, and stand regeneration.  Stand regeneration should be started before the final harvest.

It should be noted that timber harvesting is a byproduct of forest management, not the other way around.  If any harvesting is recommended, it should be backed up by data.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Jeff

What are a few of the things you would expect a forester to do when gathering data for a management plan other then gathering volume figures? Would they take soil samples? Would part of the management plan include determining forest health? Would they determine what if any forest threats are present such as parasite or disease?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

Data I gather is specie, diameter, merchantible height, grade, form, and canopy position (dominant, co-dominant, intermediate, or surpressed).  I also note whether a tree should be removed.  Core samples for growth estimates can also be gotten.

Soil tests aren't necessary.  You can get soil maps from the USDA that are quite accurate.  They also have guidelines as to what type of timber you can manage on certain soils.  

I usually do a point sample to get the information.  I pace compass lines and draw a map while I'm cruising.  You can note timber changes, and any other problems, such as insects or disease.

When you crunch your numbers, you will know how many acres there are in each timber type and how much timber should be removed.  Writing a management plan is just a formality after the data is gathered and crunched.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ron Scott

Yes to the above and in addition gather data for:

Use of Existing Soil Survey (very important)
Ecostem Analysis, both terrestrial and aquatic
Geology, Minerals, Sand, Gravel etc.
Vegetation, Species, Stocking Levels, Site Index etc.
Wildlife & Fish Habitat, both game and nongame species
Recreation
Cultural Resources
Special Features
Transportation Analysis, Roads, Trails, Closures etc .
Water & Wetlands, Vernal Ponds, etc.
Aesthetics
Endangered, Threatened, & Sensitive species
Protection, Fire, Insect & Disease, Trespass, etc.
Air Quality
Wilderness and Solitde Values
Registered Landline survey Needs

~Ron

Stephen_Wiley

I am in agreement with both "Ron's" advisement and responses to the above questions. So the purpose of my response is to digest their responses to key components to your questions above. For those wanting a more direct approach to your answer.

As to 'why' to contact a Conservation District Forester, these three statements provide a basis or component to understanding.

"Forestry is not an exact science and the more site specific information available, the better management prescription can be made to meet a landowners objectives." Ron Scott

"Thus I will refer to the "local" conservation district forester as the first line of contact for "good" and "free" advice." Ron Scott

" It should be noted that timber harvesting is a byproduct of forest management, not the other way around.  If any harvesting is recommended, it should be backed up by data." Ron Wenrich

Concerning your last three questions:

"........Would they take soil samples? Would part of the management plan include determining forest health? Would they determine what if any forest threats are present such as parasite or disease?"

These questions may have need for further exegesis rather than empirical data;  remember contacting and getting the time of a CDF is a start not a finish.  Management plans should be updated periodically to maintain goals and identify climatic, grade, biotic and abiotic alterations.

However, forest health problems e.g. root disease identification and progression are also site specific factors,  but will need more analysis other than initial visual observation only.  Soil sampling for detection of microorganisms or soil borne pathogens may be necessary.

Again, the accuracy of the initial data collected should indicate areas for further analysis. Plot sampling is considered to be representative of the site. This is where you hope that your forester takes just a little more time concerning forest health.   I have seen areas where cruising results did not accurately detect 'percentage of impact' of disease pockets.

Does this mean that are current sampling methods are 'wrong' tools.? No, often it is not economically feasible to perform and entire stand analysis.

Rather extreme climatic ( drought, floods, etc.) conditions are exigible  in our approach to include historical and recent data as well.
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Texas Ranger

one other item, most government foresters work with some restrictions, either acreage, dollars, or legal.  They can begin the process, but generally the consultant can begin and end the process.  Each state has a little different view on what a state of fed forester can do for a land owner.  One reason why some of us southren boys are some what reticent to comment on a northern tree or stand problem.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Thank You Sponsors!