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Penetrating Oils

Started by den, July 25, 2010, 10:24:53 PM

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den

Machinist's Workshop Mag (tm) published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this. the magazine reports they tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts.
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist.

They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants
with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from
a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oil .......... Average load*
None ........................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better
than any commercial product in this one particular test.

A local machinist group mixed up a batch and they all now use
it with equally good results.

Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is almost as good as "Kroil" for
about 20% of the price.
Homelite SuperXL, 360, Super2, Stihl MS251CB-E, Sotz M-20 20lb. Monster Maul, Wallenstein BXM-42

Jeff

In my eyes the test is worthless because it didn't include Rust Reaper who is a long time sponsor of this forum and the only penetrating lubricant I will ever use or recommend here, but I think you know that.

I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of members that have tried Rust Reaper will agree.  You can order it from www.rustreaper.com, or come to the Pig Roast and have a chance to get a free sample, or maybe even win a whole gallon.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Dan_Shade

I really do wonder where rust reaper would fit into that test.

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Jeff

When I was big into working on the old flywheel engines, Other then one fool that swore by w-d 40, kroil was the one that the guys I hung around with at the shows used until I was introduced to, and in turn introduced to them, Rust Reaper.  Everyone of them switched, and one even became a distributor. Not only because of the outstanding performance, but because Rust Reaper is much more pleasant to work with.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

John Woodworth

Ditto to what Jeff says and Wintergreen oil is even more potent, I've freed up things that had been frozen for years with wintergreen oil haoever made the mistake of oiling my air wrench once and was inline with the exhaust, smelled like a Dentist office fo the rest of the day.

Rust reaper works very well and comes in some nifty applicators.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Bobus2003

I've always been a PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench Guy (More PB Blaster than anything else). But after looking at the Rust Reaper Website, I'm gonna Order some and give it a try

SwampDonkey

Rust Reaper has worked well for me. I don't use a lot of it because I don't have a lot of old stuff around. But, if there are some starter packages around at the roast I'd like to purchase a couple on the spot. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Chuck White

I use Liquid Wrench, primarily because it is locally available at the Dollar Store and it's inexpensive!

I haven't seen Rust Reaper in any of the stores.  Might be it's only available direct from Rust Reaper.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Randy88

Has there ever been a study done as to how long it takes for the product to penetrate and how far in it will penetrate?   Two years ago we had a glow plug stuck in a cylinder head and couldn't get it out, we used them all and nothing worked, we tried to heat the head up by starting it and letting it cool and since it was in subzero weather I fiugured overnight was good enough but nothing helped and yes we used rust reaper as well.   We finally gave up and used a bigger breaker bar and gave it the old she's coming or we take the head off technique and finally got it off.   After examining the glow plug we determined nothing had penetrated further than the first thread at all and done virtually nothing.   I just figured the tollerance of the threads was so close and it was so badly rusted in nothng could penetrate it and it was like it was virtually welded in place.   But thats the purpose of penetrating fluid isn't it to penetrate those impossible to get apart things, to eat into the rust and corossion and weep through and loosen things so they turn?    Are there tricks that I missed, not long enough, didn't do it at the right time, not often enough, we did squirt some on three times a day, somthing we never thought of, its the first time somthing that stuck actually came apart and didn't break otherwise I'd have never known nothing penetrated.   I'm not critical I'm just asking a question as to what I'd done wrong or didn't do right and how better to make things work next time, we do our own mechanical work and every now and then come across this problem and I'm tired of usually breaking the part trying to get it apart.

trapper

did you tap it to set up vibrations to help the oil to penetrate?
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Raider Bill

I use PB Blaster to kill Boring Bees. Rust Reaper for everything else.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Randy88

Yes we tried that as well both while a socket was on it to try to shock the entire thing and also tapping on the base with a punch and squirted penetrating fluid on before and also afterwards to try and get it to go into the treads by jaring the glow plug, apparently didn't work, we even tried tapping on the top of the glow plug while tying to turn it with a wrench, nothing. They make an impact style wrench that it turns by tapping on the top of it, the harder you tap the more its suppose to move, don't know if you've ever seen them but its supposed to jar it two ways at once, a friend let me try that, I'd never seen one before but that didn't help, we tried all of the above while the engine was hot, cold, all techniques of tapping, while hot and cold, my friends fancy tap wrench while hot and cold, penetrating fluid before, during and after each equation, about 7 or 8 kinds of penetrating fluid.   We contacted the company and got the torque spec on the glow plug and they also gave me the theorectcal twist off spec, theres a long term for it but they told me not to come close to that or it'll snap off, so we went half way between torque and the snap off spec and couldn't get it to turn.   We even set an impact wrench down so it would just basically chatter at a lower torque than the torque spec so try to jar it that way, I've had luck in the past just by constant shocking for say 15 minutes at a time, notthing.  After weeks of fussing with it and nothing happening we finally just said either way I'll end up taking the head off and drilling it out so we torqued it til it snapped, I was shocked it snapped loose instead of off.    

I put it in a bag and took it several mechanics, that was part of the deal if I got it out they all wanted to look at it, and asked them their opinion of it and they all told me none of the penetrating fluid got passed the first thread, that was my conclusion as well, they had no idea why either they were baffled, they claimed thats what penetrating fluid is supposed to do penetrate by soaking long term and I exhaused all the ideas anybody I know had, so I saw this thread and thought I'd ask.   And yes my wife already asked me the question of, if you we going to dink around for two weeks why didn't you just take the head off and get it over with in the first place, my response was, I was going to save time and effort!   Isn't that what your supposed to say so it sounds better than what she already knew.

Jeff

I would have to think that if mating threads are cut to an extremely close tolerance, and then torqued tight, nothing is going to penetrate it until the point where corrosion has displaced the metal in the threads.

There is such a thing as things being rusted together, and such a thing as just being so dang tight you can't get it loose.  If may very well be that that glow plug would have been that hard to get back out the very day it was installed.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

DouginUtah

Quote from: SwampDonkey on July 26, 2010, 03:05:02 AM
Rust Reaper has worked well for me. I don't use a lot of it because I don't have a lot of old stuff around. But, if there are some starter packages around at the roast I'd like to purchase a couple on the spot. ;)

Last year I sent Mike a PM and placed my order a week before I headed east . He had it ready for me at the pig roast. COD.
-Doug
When you hang around with good people, good things happen. -Darrell Waltrip

There is no need to say 'unleaded regular gas'. It's all unleaded. Just say 'regular gas'. It's not the 70s anymore. (At least that's what my wife tells me.)

---

Randy88

That seemed to be what the guys I've talked to before thought but they still thought the penetrating fluid should have gone through a little further than that.   I bought that skidsteer new and that was the last one of the original glow plugs to be replaced, I had the same problems with injectors on one of my trucks this winter and gave up the fight and even after the head was off still couldn't get them out and sent it in for the rebuild shop to fight with.   Just hoping someone had a magical cure that I'd overlooked or hadn't tried.    Thanks for the replies guys.   

Bruce_A

WD-40 make an excellent hand cleaner.  Not much use as a penetrating oil.

ljmathias

WD 40 also works great at getting wood adhesive off of nail guns and other tools... if you don't wait too long to clean them up.  I've had good luck with PBlaster but need to try some of that Rustreaper- got so many rusted up nuts and bolts, hard to keep track of them all so I usually just ignore them and they go away somewhere.  ;D

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

DanG

Quote from: Raider Bill on July 26, 2010, 09:47:25 AM
I use PB Blaster to kill Boring Bees. Rust Reaper for everything else.

Bill, go to Family Dollar or Fred's and get some of their el cheapo Brake Parts Cleaner.  It works better than PB Blaster on the bees, and it's a lot cheaper. :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Left Coast Chris

The other possibility with the glo plug is dissimilar metals.  Possible reaction due to make up of the metal in each.   
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

sandhills

Randy88, one thing works real slick, make a simple adapter that screws on to the injector and on the other end to a slide hammer. Usually just takes a few taps. And DanG is right Raid and got nothin on brake cleaner, drops em right out of the air.

LeeB

A little Dawn dish soap and water are cheaper still and will also drop out of the air.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

John Woodworth

Ultimate prevention on glo plugs and injectors, Anti-Seize and the best I've used is sold by Cat.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

LeeB

Saves knuckles and no cussing.  :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

SwampDonkey

Most WD-40 I've used is for cleaning off saw tables or for lighter fluid in the shop stove. Usually don't even need it for that if I have planer shavings. Dry planer shavings are explosive like gas. Hey, maybe it's a wood gas stove. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Randy88

The injectors this winter were so bad we used a puller on them and snapped the tops off of them and had nothing else to hook to so we pulled the head off and tryed to pound them out and soak it with penetrating fluid from both sides and gave up.   Took it into the head shop and the guy took one look and said, oh my are they a little stuck, and I asked him how he was going to get them out and he just looked at them and said, I don't know for sure.    When we picked the head up he all he said was "now that was an interesting experience but we saved the head" and nothing more and handed me a box of pieces that were all chewed up and beat to death that were my injectors, he didn't appear to be in the mood to chat much about it so I didn't ask anymore questions, I've had those weeks myself and its best to just keep quiet and say thank you.

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