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Has anyone here planted Paulownia Trees with success?

Started by LOGDOG, July 22, 2010, 09:38:45 AM

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LOGDOG

I saw an old thread from back in 2001  where Jeff had planted Paulownia seeds to grow seedlings. The thread ended after 4 pages but I was curious if they ever grew.

Last night I stumbled on some YouTube videos regarding Paulownia trees. I've had a long running curiousity with these trees and I'm tempted to plant a bunch. Louisiana is definitely an acceptable zone with a long growing season. The only hesitation I have is that the water table where I'd like to plant them is kind of high under the ground. Froom what I've read they like to get wet and then dry out. The ground is well drained but does get water in it for several days at a time in the winter when the bayou floods.

One of the videos said that normal plantings are 200-300 trees per acre with a possible harvest after 5 years of 200 board ft per tree at a price of $2.00 + per board foot rough sawn. the math on that looks exceptional if it would materialize that way.

I read some comments about the Paulownia trees being invasive. I had wondered if there were any requirements to obtain permission from State authorities prior to planting a plantation of them? They sure make a beautiful plantation when they're maintained.

WDH

I have never heard of anyone having success with this, but that does not mean that it has not happened.  Supposedly, the Japanese prized the light color of this wood, and that was the supposeded market.  As far as I know, no commercial market ever developed.  You could maybe sell lumber to hobby woodworkers, but as far as I have experienced, it is not a wood in demand for hobbyist like walnut, cherry, and other traditional preferred wood.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Tom

It was tested by some pine plantation owners in Folkston Georgia who determined that it was too labor intensive for them, requiring as much, or more, pruning as a crop of tobacco.

I sawed some 1x6's from a tree they brought to me.  It was 3 years old and they would hold my weight when placed between pallets at about 6' apart.   The wood is as light as balsa, fibrous (almost fuzzy when sawed) and very strong.   It resist splitting.  I saw a 16p nail driven about 1/2 inch from the end of one of the boards and it didn't split out.

A Paulownia tree grows a void in its pith, almost like bamboo, or milk weed.  The wood is supposed to grow inward as well as outward and it takes about 5 years before this void begins to close. The log may be big enough to saw and still not be ready.

I see a market for the entrepreneur that is willing to promote it.  Efforts at promotion, so far, haven't been successful. 

It is invasive.  You can now see it along the right of ways of roads in the smokey mountains.

flip

A guy I cut stuff for is heavy into the paulownia even traveled to the mid east to help set up plantations.  He works with a guy in Georgia at worldpaulownia.com???.  I have cut several up that are 5 years old and have a dbh of about 12".  He gave me a dozen to plant at the farm but for whatever reason I could not get them going.  Wood is very light and seems to dry out in a day or two and get even lighter like balsa wood.  worldpaulonia is testing them for cabin logs, bio mass, structural lumber, etc.  Only bad part about them is you have to keep them trimmed up or they will grow out into a bush instead of a tree and there are few ways to kill them off, or so I'm told.  Not to mention there is a big "straw" up the middle of the tree that if doesn't get centered when you cut there will be troughs in your boards. 
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

mad murdock

That is the same tree that some places promote as the "royal empress" tree?  Maybe it would be good core wood for plywood?  wonder how it would peel on veneer peeler?
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Autocar

I planted them in my woods probably thirty years ago and two years ago sawed 1x10's out of the biggest one. Biggest problem in northwest ohio is it's cold so some winters they will freeze back till they get a good start. Last winter was cold but some how the blosooms didn't freeze and I had millons of blooms on them now there is hundreds of seed pods hanging up in them. When the pods open up there will be seedlings growing all over this area. But like I said the cold winters will get those young trees if there is not a good root system. Even the one I cut there must be a dozen shoots that are twenty feet tall. The leaves are twenty to thirty inches across on young trees but about the size of your hand on older trees.
Bill

LOGDOG

I bet that was a sight, all those blossoms. One of the companies selling seedlings (which I believe is the same company mentioned by Flip) says in the FAQ section of their site that they will enter into a contract with you to buy the wood once it's grown. I thought I'd make an inquiry and see what terms they'll buy it on. Specs etc .....

The wood definitely has some attractive characteristics (also discussed on their site). It's got me thinking.  :)

Autocar

Logdog if I can reach my seed pods just before they open I would be happy to send some your way. I remember in South Carolina they were more weed trees . They were mowed off by the highway mowing crew and already had grown 16 feet. I was told that a veneer company was flying some Japanese buyers to South Carolina and these fellows started going crazy and they wanted to land so the chopper pilot landed his chopper in this pasture and these guys had seen the blosooms from the air. Here to find out we grow better quality then they do in Japan. Ive been told up to eight bucks a bd. ft. One of the draw backs I can see growing them is they have alot of cankers on them like a hybird poplar. When mine came in they looked like a tomato seeding,the first summer they grew 16/20 feet. The leaves were 32 inches across and you could stand under them in a down pouring rain and never get wet. As the years pasted the leaves got smaller,wind storms would be tuff on them if there out in the open. I read one time where one tree would reforest the whole earth and I can believe it, it will put a cottonwood to shame  :D There the last tree to leaf out in the spring and the last to drop in the fall but the day they drop there drop in on day and be bare. The air on a calm day will smell so sweet and the blooms are purple like a easter lily.
Bill

LOGDOG

Autocar you'd make one heck of a salesman for Paulownia trees the way you describe them.  :) I've got about 30 acres I'd like to plant with them. I can just about see it now. It might be too late this year I'm not sure. Although it doesn't really get cold here until late October and sometimes November.

I've heard their tap root can be up to 75' deep. I had thought they'd be a good stable storm resistant tree. They look like they could be soft in the early years though. My deer would love to be able to get under them with their big leaves in the summer heat and get some shade.  :)

Autocar

Here at home I see them come up along the gravel on the side of the road and well drained spots .I have never planted any seed but do know that it will come up on there own.
Bill

davidlarson

Last week I attended a 2-day workshop for landowners on good land management practices for managing their forest resources.  It was put on by the Biltmore Forest School Cradle of Forestry near Asheville, NC, and co-sponsored by the NC Division of Forest Resources, NCSU Cooperative Extension Service, USDA Forest Service, Carolina Mountain Land Conservancy, NC Arboretum, NC Wildlife Resources Commission, US Fish and Wildlife Service, and about a half-dozen other similar organizations.  One topic discussed was on Non-Native Invasive Plants and Trees in Southern Forests.  Paulonia was discussed, and  we were urged to identify and remove these from our forests.  One of these trees was growing in my yard, and I had been keeping it and enjoying watching it grow (which it does vigorously), but on the basis of this workshop advice I was persuaded, so I cut it down today.
We were given a book entitled Nonnative Invasive  Plants of Southern Forests - A Field Guide for Identification and Control, by James H. Miller, published by the USDA.  Free copies are available by calling 828-257-4830, or by email to pubrequest@fs.fed.us, asking for GTR-SRS-62, or by writing to:
Southern Research Station Publications
200 W.T. Weaver Blvd.
Asheville, NC 28804.
The book was published in May 2003, and has been revised several times.  Apparently a new edition is expected soon.  The message I got was that the issue of nonnative invasive plants is a big deal, and these agencies really want landowners to be aware of it and to help to deal with it (think kudzu and multiflora rose).  
David L.  

LOGDOG

David,

   Did they comment on what harm the plant / tree causes? If any ....? Personally, I think the Gum trees are invasive in the South. Those things grow everywhere and thick. Not good for a darn thing hardly except shade. I'm half tempted to plant Paulownia trees just to choke out the Gum trees.

davidlarson

LOGDOG -
As I understood what was being said, there are several problems with nonnative invasive plants in general:
1.   They are, in fact, invasive.  Here in western NC we have places, sometimes involving several acres, where kudzu grows and makes the land not usable, and where pretty much all other vegetation is smothered and killed off.  Multiflora rose, bamboos, garlic mustard, chinese privet and cogongrass are other examples.
2.   Because they are not native, the insects and diseases that keep them in check in their home territory are usually not present here, so they spread more easily and uncontrollably.
3.   Paulonia in particular spreads by wind- and water-borne seeds and by root sprouts, and  spreads aggressively.  I have lived at my place for 37 years, and never saw any Paulonia until 5 years ago when my one tree (that I know of) popped up.  When I cut it down yesterday I saw that it already was making seed pods, and at the base of this young tree there are many seedlings.  Another patch of seedlings is coming up about 50 feet away, crowding out other plants, like aggressive weeds.  It sounds a little crazy, but it feels like I'm in a Stephen King story.  Well, yes, that does sound kind of crazy.
4.   There are some purists who are opposed to any potentially invasive nonnative species just on general principles.  They say, for example, that native animals, birds, insects, etc. cannot survive as well eating non-native species.  These purists also seem to have philosophical or aesthetic reasons to dislike nonnative species.
     I found an article from the University of Kentucky describing how and why to grow Paulonia.  Google PAULONIA: A GUIDE TO ESTABLISHMENT AND CULTIVATION to read it.  The article has a map that indicates the central and southern Appalachian area is where this tree has the greatest risk of becoming invasive, and not Louisiana
     You will have to decide how persuasive all of this is.  Apparently the tree has been in the US since the 1800s, and is now quite widespread, so it is unlikely that it can be eliminated from our forests even if everyone wanted to.  Since I'm not planting it for timber, I believe I'll try to get rid of it, for the same reason that I try to get rid of kudzu and multiflora rose.
     Sorry to be so wordy - but I hope this answers your question.
David  L.

toploader Ford

In the 80's Paulonia was a hot item some trees bringing $8 to $10 a foot on the stump. In 1985 I planted about 100 in what was then my front yard thinking I was going to be able to retire off of all the money I was going to make. They demand a little work for the first 3 or 4 years. You have to keep the new buds off of the trunk. The bark is very easily scared so forget about doing any thinning to improve the growth of trees when the diameters are larger than 6". They don't thend to heal themselves very well, at least mine don't.  When you are working on that first couple year's growth you get a lot of dear damage.  Then later on it's woodpeckers! The first group I planted  all got wind blown due to all the big leaves on the upper half of the tree, and to this day they all have a curve or sweep to them.  My biggest ones are about 18" or so. Of course I don't have a 100 of them anymore maybe I'm down to 40. I've never made a dime on them. The only good thing about them is I don't have to mow my yard now and they are pretty in the spring. Would I plant more knowing what I know now? No.

LOGDOG

Thanks for the comments guys. All good stuff including actual planting experience, growth experience over extended time periods, care and upkeep, etc.

You know, we all love the idea of a grow fast, get rich quick, timber product (anything really). But being in the investment business and seeing all kinds of schemes out there I tend to be a bit skeptical of things that seem too good to be true, which leads to lots of additional questions. That usually leads to fine print which includes disclosures, exceptions, and some sort of statement that says "no guarantee".

I think in the right climate, with the right piece of land, soil types, time (or crew) to prune them you could probably grow some fine trees over time that at the very least end up having an abundance of beautiful blooms. I'd almost be tempted to plant fast growing Cedar tree seedlings for the purpose of re-selling as say five years down the road as transplants to landscapers once they've grown a bit. Cedars grow really well down here.

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