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Sawing at the county fair

Started by Qweaver, July 18, 2010, 07:15:58 PM

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Qweaver

We are getting ready to give sawmill demos at the county fair next week for five days.  We spent a lot of today sawing out a fence to keep the watcher away from the saw.  We don't need an accident.
We plan to give two demos a day.  We'll saw a boxed beam from a 12" dia. log and a 20" dia log into 1x and 2x6.  I was considering pre sawing cants but I think the whole process will be more interesting.   There will just be the three of us old farts running the mill and I think it will be fun.
If you've given a demo and want to offer any advice...please do.  We are sort of flying blind here. :D

I was sort of thrown a curve yesterday when the fair main organizer showed up at my sawmill site and told me he would supply his own logs for me to saw into 2x6 for a shed for himself.  I'm not liking this very much and I think I may decline his offer.  I wonder how he would feel if I showed up at his garage expecting free car work.
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

beenthere

Seems for demo purposes, showing the different cuts of lumber that come from the logs would be good. But that may be beyond what you want to show.
I'd think twice about the free sawing. If you can bring your own logs, and take your own wood home seems the best plan. His might be full of metal.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Qweaver on July 18, 2010, 07:15:58 PM
We are getting ready to give sawmill demos at the county fair next week for five days.  We spent a lot of today sawing out a fence to keep the watcher away from the saw.  We don't need an accident.
We plan to give two demos a day.  We'll saw a boxed beam from a 12" dia. log and a 20" dia log into 1x and 2x6.  I was considering pre sawing cants but I think the whole process will be more interesting.   There will just be the three of us old farts running the mill and I think it will be fun.
If you've given a demo and want to offer any advice...please do.  We are sort of flying blind here. :D

I was sort of thrown a curve yesterday when the fair main organizer showed up at my sawmill site and told me he would supply his own logs for me to saw into 2x6 for a shed for himself.  I'm not liking this very much and I think I may decline his offer.  I wonder how he would feel if I showed up at his garage expecting free car work.
Quinton
Disappointing about the "offer".  At the least i'd ask for blade costs for metal damage.   Need to consider the value of having a lot of logs to saw and your effort of providing them vs. someone else bringing some.  Should get a lot of customers once they find out you saw for free. :D :D :D Also it wouldn't make a good show to be hitting metal.  Another thing to consider is whether the fair rules allow you to saw for money there, or sell lumber you saw at the fair.   Sometimes the space is free unless you do business there then there is a stiff charge.

I'd also like to hear "fair show" experiences from mill owners.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Dan_Shade

I've done demo's before.

I find it best to be in a fenced in area (in fact, I won't do a demo if I can't fence it off).  The demo's I've done were in a cow pasture.

Crowd control is of utmost importance.  When I have done it, I did it at predetermined times, and would cut 1-2 logs at a time.  Then shut the mill off and BS with anybody wanting to BS. 

You'll have fun doing it!
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Magicman

I've done demos before, but it was something that I decided to do.  I got plenty of free advertisement and really enjoyed the experience.  It was always only one day.

In your case, it didn't sound that way.  I like to play by my rules, not someone else's.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Dan_Shade

I see nothing wrong with telling the guy you will charge him if you saw his logs.

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Jim H

I've done demos where I brought the logs and took the lumber and ones where I cut logs provided by someone else, and they kept the lumber. Even though I didn't make any money I prefer cutting provided logs, because it was less preparation. I just tell them how many logs and approximatly what size. As far as roping off an area I use yellow caution tape, people seem to respect it pretty well, and it's easy to put up on steel post or rebar. I try to shoot for 10"-14" logs. They take about 10 minutes or so to cut, much longer and people can lose interest before you have a chance to talk to them. If you have someone who can answer questions while you saw that is great. One year my wife sawed while I talked to folks, that made an impression, for several years people would mention seeing a woman running the mill. When it comes to safety I worry most about the logs, when the mill is running you have a good view of it, and you can pull the key out when you stop but kids climbing on the log pile makes me nervous.
2008 LT40HDG28, autoclutch, debarker, stihl 026, 046, ms460 bow, 066, JD 2350 4wd w/245 loader, sawing since '94 fulltime since '98

D._Frederick

If you are not paying for your space and are promoting you sawmill business, then you are biting the hand that is feeding you.   I may be wrong, just my own thoughts.

Chuck White

I've heard of selling raffle tickets and the winner gets the lumber.

The lumber can be divided up into small lots, for example 10-20 boards in a pile or if you're not sawing but 2-3 logs, put all of the lumber into one lot!

Sell raffle tickets for 50¢ - $1.00 each.

Of course, it's all contingent upon the "Fair" rules.

I feel like I do a demo pretty-much, every time I start a new saw-job!  ;D
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

bandmiller2

The lumber is just a by product,usally used around the fairgrounds.Practice a little with your crew so you will look like smooth dudes at the show.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Qweaver

I would not mind donating the lumber to the fair organization but I do not like the idea of an individual profiting because of his position.  But mainly I don't want to cut large diameter 17' logs for the demo.  Now it's not a fun exercise, it's hard, unpaid work.  I already have 8' 12 to 20" clean logs set aside that I can saw in a fairly short demo.  
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Bibbyman

We did one county fair demo years ago when we got our first mill.  It went well and had a lot of interest.  We started with our own logs and offbeared right on our flatbed truck so we could just drive off at the end of the day with the lumber.  The slabs and sawdust found homes easy enough. I can't remember how many days it was but maybe a week.  

We didn't have a fence and didn't have a problem.  I don't know if a hard fence is necessary but maybe a rope or ribbon would work well enough.  Good idea to shut down when anyone approach.  But!  They like to get up close and see what you're doing!  And even like to help.  But don't let them.

It this county fair, the management asked us to saw out some logs to build a new pavilion or stalls or something.  We agreed and they hauled in a dump truck load of junk that was left over from a log site.   Look at the logs first!  

I find it works well to have nice, easy to handle logs that are not too big or too long.  10' logs about 14" works well.  Maybe saw one pre demo.  We set up a time schedule and posted it but it got to where we'd have people show up and want to see us "do something".  Soon as we started the mill, a crowd would gather.





We've helped Wood-Mizer with a number of shows over the years in our area.  Always a lot of fun and more work and time than you'd think.

Be prepared for every ol'timer to tell you about when he was a kid and uncle so and so had a circle mill and...  on and on...

A portable pavilion and table and chairs and something to drink will make it a lot more comfortable.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Meadows Miller

Gday

I found that there are two main types of demo's over the years one's you do for your own business selling timber or your sawmilling service  or you are helping the dealer sell equiment Ill stick with the first one as i think thats what your aiming at Mate  ;)

Its pretty easy  ;) set your mill up and and a good barrier and have all your logs for the day or half day in a single level for sawing within the fence (dont pile them!) also keep your fence 12' to 20' feet from the sides and ends of your sawmill .Saw at a safe consitant steady rate when you have the mill in operation and saw in short stints one or two log runs depending on size  ;) And if someone cant wait till you finnish to ask you something and comes into the sawing area turn the equipment off . also have acople of no entry while machine in operation signs hanging on the fence  ;)

Also Have some business cards ready to give people who hang around and wait for you to finnish sawing to give to them as they are the ones that will generaly have work coming up soon for you to do  ;D  and make a couple of flyers up and laminate them that have your contact details onthem on the fence for people to just enter in thier phone for the ones who think i might get somthing done but arnt to serious whole thing the tire kickers  ;)  :D ;D

for the fair grounds member that wants his own logs milled for his own use  by all means charge him for it even if you do it a say a 20 to 30% discount with a blade charge for hitting anything in his logs and tell him that he should still feel like he's getting a bargan Mate

Good Luck and Have Fun Mate

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

logman

I'm sure you probably know but you can get 2 free blades from WM for demos plus other literature to put out.  At least you could in the past when I did demos at a local draft horse event in Delaware.
LT40HD, 12' ext, 5105 JD tractor, Genie GTH5519 telehandler
M&K Timber Works

Autocar

I saw on a handset circle mill and I finally told them two years ago I furnish the logs. I got sick and tired of old dead white ash logs that were like sawing cement. I bring the logs then donate them to the old farmers group that put it on. Theres a fellow that comes evey year and buys the boards we saw.
Bill

Bibbyman

I always took some ERC to the demos for the LT15s to saw.  It saws easy and it draws a crowd.  The WM guys would take a slab off and make a cut or two and then turn and clamp to show how that was done then wait for the next crowd.  So they would only saw a log or maybe two in a day on the small mill.

I also take some walnut if I have some and maybe cherry.  Otherwise oak as that's what we have the most of.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Brucer

I've been to several WM demos over the years, at the local trade show. The guys typically have an LT15, one of the hydraulic mills, and an edger. Their pattern is to saw a small log on the '15, saw a bigger log on the hydraulic mill, and then run the flitches through the edger. They do this once an hour and answer questions the rest of the time. When all the machines are shut down, folks are welcome to get up close and look. Most folks want to see the saws run, ask questions, and get up close.

Since they're looking at a 5-1/2 hour drive, they don't bring their own logs. Typically they'll arrange with a local logger to bring some logs to the demo site. They'll saw the logs to his/her specs and pile the lumber on the trailer the logs came on. The logs are usually 10-12' long.

At the demo last spring the logs were supplied by an industrial contracting outfit that wanted a bunch of 2x12's. They were obviously clueless about logs -- these things were full of star shake. It was sad because Gary can make that mill sing, but all he was producing was junk.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Qweaver

Thanks for the many good ideas.   I loaded up a trailer of 8' logs yesterday.
We have a good location and are completely fenced in with one section easily removed so that I can let people get close to the saw when we are not sawing.  I am going to try the lottery of the wood stacks and see how that works. 
The weather report is not looking good so I hope  we get some reasonable days.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Brucer

Another thing to be prepared for. When there's lots of people around, there's a good chance you'll make some (or all) of the mistakes you've either made already, or read about on the forum.


  • Trying to saw your mill.
  • Leaving a toeboard up and sawing a tapered timber.
  • Leaving a hand crank in the toeboard and running the carriage into it.
  • Loading a log while the side stops are down.
  • Sawing a board the wrong thickness.
  • Etc.

It's not just Murphy's law at work. These are mistakes that are easy to make when you get interrupted in the middle of things. So remind yourself to complete a task before you respond to an interruption.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Carpenter

Sounds like a lot of fun.  Part of the reason I am sawing today is because I saw an old shingle mill run at an antique tractor show. 

Qweaver

The first day was very slow.  There was a threat of rain and very few people came out to the fairgrounds.  The rest of the week is looking better and some of the "old timer exhibitors" say that Friday and Sat. will be the best days.
Our setup is good and the loading, sawing and off bearing process worked well.  Bring on the crowds.  8)
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Bibbyman

Sawing in front of the general public can be interesting.  A few have a clue and the rest don't.  You'll get some interesting questions.  It would be fun to take note of some of them and share with us.

We've had people stand and watch the whole process and then question what we are doing and why we're doing it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Qweaver

Yeah, people that haven't had practice making and working from drawings have a hard time orienting  3D objects.  A man last evening that had watched a circle sawmill once could not understand that all we had done was turn the process 90deg.  I tried to explain but he just never got it.  My wife is the same, bless her heart.  I make a drawing and when it's built I hear..."I didn't think it would look like that".
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Bibbyman

I worked with an engineer on a major project.  He could not visualize anything on an assembly drawing.   I had to detail out all the parts and have prototype parts made and assembled in the development lab before he could "get it".  It took a lot of extra time on the project.  He got caught in one of the early cutbacks and got a job at the bank as an accountant.  He was real good with numbers and anal about detail.  It was a better career for him.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Qweaver

The first day was pretty much a total loss.  Just a few watchers and the constant threat of rain.  Today was much better.  Several watchers, lots of questionsw and we sold 24 raffle tickets.  Tomorrows weather is going to be perfect and I think we will have a crowd.
Today was fun.  Woodmizer sent us a "show kit" with fliers and log scales.  We are trying to give these to people that show real interest in having a sawmill.  I'll get some pictures of our setup tomorrow.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Dan_Shade

sounds like you're having "fun"

I'm sure you'll end up with some stories to tell.  I vividly remember one fella passionately telling me that there was no way my rig could cut a board due to it's design faults, and his old belsaw was way better.  I got a headache over that one, but ended the conversation when I referenced the big stack of boards beside the fence i had just sawn.

Nothing like talking the general public to let us know how smart our friends are :)
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

woodhick

I've done a couple of demos for a local woodworking club of which I am a member also.   Both times I supplied the wood and donated it to the club to be auctioned off at the end of the day.  Proceeds went to the club.  Remember this is woodworkers so I always tried to find something "different" or with character as that is what they always want.   Last time I had two killer nice persimmon logs that sawed out some very nice lumber.   Couldnt even get a bid of $.50 a foot.  I ended up buying it myself and bringing it home.  I also had some nice large basswood since there are some carvers in the club and they had requested it.   They all got together before the auction and low-balled the bids and then split the wood.  I told them that would be the last time I would do a demo for them.  Howver all-in all I met some nice new people and got a couple of jobs from it so it is fun but I would be careful of his offer to supply the lumber.
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

bandmiller2

I've worked with friends at fairs and shows milling.Bibs right about some of the questions you get,but once in a wile you will run into an old codger that knows his stuff and can have a real conversation and learn something.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

fishpharmer

You could offer to saw on halves at the fair.  Take your time, a long time, to saw some of the logs.  Answer all the questions.  Take your time to teach folks, make friends and maybe customers.  Isn't that what a demo is  about?

When the demo is over saw the rest of the logs for full price. :)
Just an idea.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Qweaver

The fair is over and I have mixed feelings about calling it a success.  We sawed for two sessions a day during the week and there were usually only a few people watching.  We were able to run 7 raffles which made $150 and we split it 75/25.  The fair people were happy with that split and even offered to let me have it all to cover expenses.   But I know they struggle to stay in the green so 25% was plenty for me. 
Our last session today was the best with a pretty good crowd (15 to 20 coming and going) watching and asking questions.
I had several people say that they would like to have logs sawn but no actual jobs. 
We essentially gave away the lumber but I have more logs stacked than I can use...so no big loss.   And the main reason to do the show was to drum up interest and the lumber raffles helped.
Would we do it again?  Probably not.  It was a lot of work to set up and I will spend most of the day tomorrow getting every thing back home and ready to go back to work.  If each day had been like this last session, then OK.  It's hard to compete with dirt track races, mud bogs and bands. 
We'll have to see if we get any business from this and then think about other fairs.
Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

DanG

Q, I'll bet you get some jobs from that.  Some of those folks are just glad to know that there is someone to cut their logs for them when they're ready, and you're the one they'll call.  If you decide to do it again, try doing shorter but more frequent demos.  If you're getting 15-20 onlookers twice a day, you can get 15-20 eight times a day.  They don't care to see you cut up a whole log, they just want to see a couple of boards come off and then talk with you about it.  If you have a cant on there and a guy comes along and wants to see you cut a board, then crank it up and cut him one.  More than likely, his wife and young'ns are pulling at him to move along, so make it short and sweet.  Most of them ain't gonna make it back if your next demo is 3 or 4 hours away.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Bibbyman

Did you hand out business cards?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

bandmiller2

Quint,you planted the seed thats all anyone can do.Sometimes the ones that want alot of milling done you'll never hear from and the quiet little guy has a big woodlot and needs a new barn.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

paul case

business cards are the ticket. i get more business from them than paper ads.pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Qweaver

Just to follow up here.
I have had more saw jobs in the six weeks after the sawing demo than I had all of last year.  In fact we're sawing a little more than us two old fools want to.    I usually ask how the customer found me and most either saw me at the fair or were told about me by someone that saw me there.  So it was certainly worth the effort...plus it was a lot of fun.  I also want to thank Woodmizer for their help on very short notice.
Quinton 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Magicman

Wonderful.  Your testimony should encourage others to do county fairs, etc.  Those events are the best and cheapest advertisement that I know of.   ;)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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