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price of E R C logs

Started by paul case, July 13, 2010, 01:56:26 PM

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paul case

i have opportunity to buy some erc logs still standing from my aunt. most are not over 12'' at 10' and will be limby. i have some folks wanting live edge trim made from erc so i will be able to sell it.
what should i offer for the logs? what scale to use?
what should the erc trim be worth? it will be rough sawed and 3/8'' thick.      any input is appreciated   pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Cedarman

I pay about 15 cents per board foot on the cedar scale.  In Arkansas and Mo it is less.  Further west and it is free, even further west they pay you to get rid of it.
3/8" live edge I sell mine for 70 cents per square foot.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

paul case

thanks    where can i find a copy of the scale you use?   pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Cedarman

For 8' logs
4"     4'
5"     7'
6"    11'
7"    14, some places have 15'
8"    19
9"    24'
10"   30'
11"   36'
12"   43'
13"   50'
14"   58'
15"   67'
16"   76'
17" and up use Doyle scale
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

ladylake

That's not too much different than the scribner scale, it scales a little more on the small ones and a little less on the bigger ones.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

JBritt


Papa1stuff

1987 PB Grader with forks added to bucket
2--2008 455 Rancher Husky
WM CBN Sharpener & Setter

Magicman

Another plug for the Dictionary in the "forum extras" tab above.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

JBritt

Thanks for that Magic Man, didn't know the dictionary existed. 

Magicman

 :) :)  I forget it sometimes myself.  Neither "eska" nor "esker" are in there, but neither of them are forestry terms either.   ;)

Jeff has done an excellent job of providing his members with very valuable resources.  Now if we will only look.  :o   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Cedarman

I esker what we are having for dinner , and she said it would be ready in 1 hour. :D :D
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

paul case

i esker 2 n she said '' do you want a hammer turkey sanwich?''    pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Kedwards

I always wondered about "the cedar scale" ..good post.
His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like socks in a dryer without cling free

Dirtdobber

Hey Guys,  around here e r c sells for 30 cents a ft, thats what I pay for it and I have sold it for 35 cents a ft before I bought my own mill.  All on the cedar scale.  Lumber prices range from 55 to 80 cents depending where you go.

Carpenter

The other day, I saw an ad for rough cut green cedar for sale for $2.50/ bd ft.  Do you guys think that is out of line?   :o  I was not planing on buying any but since I just got the mill running and will have some for sale I need to have an idea what its worth.
      I was really thinking $1 to $1.25 for stacked and stickered rough cut lumber, and paying my log guys $.30/bd ft delivered.  It still makes the stuff worth more than fence post price and I think I can make a decent profit on the product.  What do you guys think?  I think I will mostly be cutting 8' lengths.  I did cut some 12 foot logs but had quite a bit of waste, so I cut the rest of the 12 footers in half and got a lot of nice 6' lumber.  Also, I thought that maybe there should be a price difference for boards with live edge or not.  I was thinking maybe 1.25 /bdft for 1" thick 8' boards with no live edges, $1 for boards with one live edge and $.80 for two live edges or flaws, like loose knots or splits.  If I understand the scale correctly cedar gains %50 in value per board foot every 4 feet.  So, based on that a #1 board that is 12' long would be worth $1.88/bdft.  And if the log guys brought me something big enough to cut 12' boards out of I could pay them accordingly. 
      Does this make any sence at all?   ???     It makes sence to me, but then again, I am the one writing it.  I'm sure there's a flaw in my reasoning somewhere.  I want to make it worthwile to the log guys ( they are both ranchers who cut some cedar occasionally to clear land and for fence posts) And I want to price the product at a price that it will sell at and still make a profit on my end.  Please help.  Thanks.

Kansas

We are around 1.40 for green, and 1.90 for dried. Maybe a little more if they are wanting something like a mantle with a live edge. We don't push cedar sales because very few log it around here. At times in the past we had a lot better supply of logs, and sold a lot more.  I hate to develop markets and then not be able to deliver in the future because of a lack of logs. Here in Kansas there is a lot of cedar, but you would pretty well have to be in the business, getting paid for clearing pastures, salvaging the good logs, maybe mulching the other cedar. And probably a scragg mill would be in order.

Gee, I think I just described Cedarman's operation.

Cedarman

Kansas, you are right.  By the way there is a band scragg waiting for someone to start a mill in Oklahoma.  There are no big cedar mills in Ok or Ks because not much cedar is logged.  There is not much cedar logged because there is no place to go with it.  Chicken egg thing.  With all the cedar standing in the plains, opportunity is beckoning for the person that figures it out. 3 billion (yes billion) board feet of good cedar standing in Ok alone.

Cedar logs have a good bit of taper, so a 12 foot log should be worth more.  When we buy 16' logs we figure them as 2  8' logs .  Measure the small end, then estimate the diameter at the middle of the log.  This way the logger doesn't lose.  Otherwise you will never see a 16 log.  
I sell live edge for same price as regular lumber whether one edge or 2 edges live.  My website has an extensive price list.  www.cedarusa.com  
I can ship 1000 feet of cedar for 30 to 60 cents per foot shipping costs to about anywhere in the country.
I add 20 cents to my 8' price for lumber up to 12' long.  More for longer lengths.  
When sawing we salvage all the side lumber.  This lumber is good for paneling or fence boards.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

ely

i have paid .30 cents a board ft for cedar logs recently. i also sell that cedar for 1.25 or 1.50 depending on who is buying. most i use for myself.

carpenter, when i saw logs for some one that brings them to me. they take the splits and the loose knots all for one money. the way i see it is, they cut the logs to suit themselves so why should their bad decision cost me money.

if they are my logs and they are paying for top lumber then thats what i sell them. i have some customers who think cedar does not have any sapwood on it. coincidentally i also have walls inside my buildings  that are mostly sap wood from cedar logs. ;D

Chuck White

ERC vs White Cedar

Are the needles/leaves on ERC sharp/picky as opposed to the flat soft needles/leaves on White Cedar?

Some of us don't know until we saw into it!

I did saw a few small ERC a couple of days ago, but the guy was pretty tight-lipped about where he got them.

I know he didn't get them close bye!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

paul case

i dont know about sharp/ prickly but i dont think they are by any means smooth or soft

yep sharp and prickley.  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Chuck White

Thanks Paul.

Now I know where there's some ERC.

But it's not very close to home.

Down state and to the west a little!

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

paul case

we have a lot of them here but most are too small to mess with so when i find some good ones i want them you know its a sawyer thing. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Magicman

We have a couple of different varieties of ERC.  I'm not good with descriptions, but one is sorta like hemlock in that the leaves/needles are dense and gathered and flat like your hand.  Another, the leaves/needles are almost individual and and much less dense.  The lumber seems to be the same.

I guess that I should get some pictures of the two.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

paul case

that would be good i would like to see them since i thought there was only one kind. i know that here there are some that grow good and some that dont but i believe  that to all be due to location.   pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

NWwoodsman

Well out here on the Coast of Washington good Old growth western red sells for $1000 a 1000bf in log form. Hell you can get $500-$700 a cord for 18 inch shingle bolts. I guess your talking about 2 nd growth, which isn't worth pissing on compared to the Old Growth.

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