high volume of junk!?

[paul case]

i have wondered if its just me or maybe its just my timber every time i saw some i wind up with some boards that wont do.   holes in the middle of the log, limbs that broke off and growed over making  bad spot or even a bad center seems to cause me to have a lot of bad lumber.   pretty much all of mine is hardwoods. i am not talking about just having a lot of slabs, this is the center that should produce good lumber.    does anyone else have this? pc

[Ron Wenrich]

I run about 2 1/2 MMbf/year of hardwoods.  They vary from spot to spot, and a lot depends on the past harvesting practices.  If you're in an area that is prone to diameter limit cutting or other forms of high grading, the residual stand is a bunch of stressed out trees.  They don't respond well to release and they're usually full of defect. 

Another factor in the previous harvest is how much care the logger took during the harvest.  If they busted up the residual stand, then they left if open for rot and bugs. 

It seems to me that you're just working in someone else's leftovers. 

[Magicman]

Even good trees sometimes have bad centers.  The piths get larger as the tree ages.

I sawed some very nice Cherrybark Red Oaks today.  If I had not oriented the log and opened the correct face that butt check would have caused  every board to split.  Limbs that were broken off 30+ years ago allowed rot to develop in the log.  They're healed over now, but the damage was done to the log's interior.

i have wondered if its just me........this is the center that should produce good lumber.    does anyone else have this? pc

I've found that with old oaks, the center is generally the junkiest part.  Most of the logs that I sawed today had 2-3 center boards that were bad.  Of course in my case I got paid for sawing them all.    ;)

[DRB]

The best boards are from the outside of the log the worst the center.  Even a perfect appearing log can have rot pockets or knots inside.  My advice is if it is your lumber throw the junk in with the slab wood or pile it up and burn it.  You will waste much  more time then it is worth handling crud and no one will buy it.

[bandmiller2]

You cut the logs and take your chances,have a bargin pile for shorts and notters.Frank C.

[wwsjr]

I get a lot of various species of oak to saw. Most of the larger logs are not producing good lumber in the middle of the log. I recommend to many of my customers random width grade sawing, turning the log after 2 or threes cuts on each side of the cant. Can't always do this if customer wants dimension lumber.

[paul case]

You cut the logs and take your chances,have a bargin pile for shorts and notters.Frank C.

i used to do this then last winter i cut all that stuff up and sold it as firewood. brought a premium.

I run about 2 1/2 MMbf/year of hardwoods.  They vary from spot to spot, and a lot depends on the past harvesting practices.  If you're in an area that is prone to diameter limit cutting or other forms of high grading, the residual stand is a bunch of stressed out trees.  They don't respond well to release and they're usually full of defect. 

Another factor in the previous harvest is how much care the logger took during the harvest.  If they busted up the residual stand, then they left if open for rot and bugs. 

It seems to me that you're just working in someone else's leftovers. 

ron,     i am working on second growth stuff and leftovers some of the time but i havent found much difference between it and the old growth. i assume that ice storms and high winds can break limbs off and leave trees vulnerable to rot?

Even good trees sometimes have bad centers.  The piths get larger as the tree ages.

I sawed some very nice Cherrybark Red Oaks today.  If I had not oriented the log and opened the correct face that butt check would have caused  every board to split.  Limbs that were broken off 30+ years ago allowed rot to develop in the log.  They're healed over now, but the damage was done to the log's interior.

i have wondered if its just me........this is the center that should produce good lumber.    does anyone else have this? pc

  Of course in my case I got paid for sawing them all.    ;)

mm ,     i get paid too just its for the wood not the sawing!     junk pays too, firewood price. 

You will waste much  more time then it is worth handling crud and no one will buy it.

if you sell stuff that is junk for good price or even at all you take away from your own reputation. didnt someone say'' we have less to worry about from outside competition than inside ineffiency?   pc

[Bibbyman]

We tend to have a good market for beams and RR ties.  We try to buy logs with sound hearts and degrade any log that won't make a good beam or tie.  White oak tends to be sounder than red oak in our area.  It's pretty disappointing when sawing a 16-20' beam that should bring a good price to run into rot or some other major defect.  Not so bad in short logs as the beam or tie is not worth as much per board foot as the longer stuff.

If you're buying logs it'd be nice to have x-ray vision to see defect inside a log.  There are clues that help.  But even a perfect log will sometimes fool you.  We've had logs sound as a (well,  I was about to say dollar) hound's tooth on each end be nothing but rot inside with no indication on the outside.

[paul case]

bibby,
i have run on to that too. the red oaks here are the worst for that kind of defect. i do cut some of those but i like post oak much better and have better luck with them. i dont buy many logs. i did learn early on that i needed to look them over real good when i do buy and discount or refuse any with defects.  cutting my own though i bring almost everythng i cut home and the culls get made into firewood.  i was wondering if the softwooders have these same troubles?  pc

[Magicman]

 pretty much all of mine is hardwoods.

Paul, you say hardwood, but didn't mention what species.  The hardwood that I saw is mainly oak.  Cherrybark Red Oak is our highest quality oak.  Water Oak is a red oak, but poorer quality.

The older any of our oaks are, the more likely you are to encounter bad centers.

[paul case]

red oak, white oak, post oak, hickory. very little ash, erc, cherry,and walnut.

oaks seem to produse the most junk, but i saw far more oak than anything else. pc

[WDH]

I do not saw nearly as much as most of y'all on here do, but I have found that sawing sorry, knotty, sweepy logs is backing up big time.  There is a tendency in to want to saw all logs to get something out of them, but I am learning to resist that tendency on the junkier logs.  I do not custom saw, but I do sell lumber, and the most people buying wood for projects do not want the junk.

[Magicman]

I managed 1440 BF of oak on this job.  Since it is a custom job, the junk pays the same as the good.



This is field stacked.  It will be moved to a shed and re-stacked.  This will be subflooring for a home addition.

[paul case]

mm,
you say that the junk pays as much as the good right? do any of your customers ask you to quit on that one when you hit a 3' rotten spot in a log? when i custom saw for someone and they bring a bad log i try to make it good for them and me too by throwing the junk away. that makes them happier with what they pay for.  pc

[Magicman]

Defects in oak are generally not killers.  Just not pretty.  If/when I hit a really bad spot, I'll rotate it and saw down to the bad from the other side.  Sometimes from all 4 sides.  I try not to saw and never scale unusable lumber.

The absolute worst that I get into is cedar, which I only saw by hourly rate anyway.

Selling no lumber really keeps me out of the accumulated junk business.

[west penn]

I saw the grade fom the outside in and when I get a 2 or 3 common face an all 4 sides I turn the rest into blocking (1x4, 1x6 0r 4x4 or 4x6 etc .) and sell them to the pallet mills to make cut stock for pallets. no use in sticking junk if someone has a use for it $.

[SAWMILL BUDDY]

Nice job on that field stacking MM