Starting a new log home

[montana]

We live in North West Montana and any input on which type of foundation would be best would be appreciated.A crawlspace (pier and beam) or a full basement. The log home will be1600 sq. ft, we don't realy need the room, and we are trying to keep costs down. I know moisture can be a problem with a crawl space. I have built many log homes down south on a slab at grade, not an option here. Thanks in advance, Mike

[jander3]

I built my log home with a post and pier foundation.    I live in Minnesota.  For the footings, I dug 20" diameter holes that were about 4 feet deep (to get below the frost line) and then filled the holes with sack-crete,  rebar, and stones.

[Thehardway]

Don't be so sure a slab on grade is not an option.  An FPSF or Frost Protectected Shallow Footer should be allowed in your area.  It saves on construction cost and also saves on energy costs over the life of the house.  They have reportedly been in use in the colder European climates for over 40 years without any notable failure.  They also use them in Canada.

Crawl spaces and basements are being viewed as less and less desireable with all of the radon and mold issues and they certainly are not energy savers.

http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/DesignGuides/revisedFPSFguide.pdf

The 2004 NAHB Research Center Builder's Guide contains tables, figures and more detailed instructions on how to install FPSFs. See Tables 4 and A1 in the American Society of Civil Engineers Design and Construction of Frost-Protected Shallow Foundations, SEI/ASCE 32-01, 2001. This document includes design tables, climate maps and other data needed to complete a frost-protection design.

Good luck and happy log building!

[montana]

Thanks, for the input. Interesting read hardway. :P ???

[bigshow]

My experiences: I wanted a FPSF.  No concrete contractor nor the inspector had heard of it.  And, the bank's appraiser would not allow it.

I then tried for a slab on grade: Bank's appraiser said house would be worth nothing - so, no value was affixed, therefor no loan was possible.

I tried for a partial basement: nope.

I conceded to a full basement: and everyone was happy, except me.

In my parts, the building boom has yet to end, though house prices are falling now.  Everyone (including banks) thinks that building house, finishing basement, then flipping is just the greatest.

No thought is entertained at any level for anything other than what property will be worth to someone else.  Maybe its different in other areas.  I had a tough time finding a bank that would: a.) let me be the contractor  b.) give me more than 6months to build it.

County wont let you build as you can afford it either.  If you need someone elses money to build, find out that stuff first.

Fun stuff.

[Thehardway]

You have to use a bank familiar with energy efficient building practices and owner/builder financing.  There are a few out there but not enough.  Your point is well made.

I had to build my house on a HELOC.  Bank would not do a construction loan because I had too much land on the lot.  They said they would not finance more than a 4 acre lot.  My 10 acres was too much.  Additionally I was building ICF so the inspection schedule did not match up with their preset inspection and draw schedule.

And we wonder why the banks are in trouble.

[montana]

You know guys after hardway sent me the link to the FPSF site I got excited, this is something I would also like to do. I went to a concrete contractor and asked his opinion and got the same response as big show. My thing is it's just me and the wife and we don't need the extra space (full walk out basement). All the bankers and real estate folks tell me the same thing about foundations. There logic on the issue is that the space is cheap and you get about the same dollar per sq. ft. as the rest of the house. It really has nothing to do with structural integrity. We have a 4 ft freeze line and the logic of the added cost is that you only have  another 4 ft to complete the basement. I'm still scratching my head!! I sure don't need another 1800 ft. I also have to heat all that space I don't need. What ever happened to modesty and plain old common (cents). I'm not concerned about resale value either, I bought the land at 1/3 it's value and I can build at 50% less than what most folks would pay for a tun key house, I think I can get my money out of it if I chose to.

[bigshow]

I disagree with the industry about basements being cheap.  You have floor trusses (should they be used instead of 2x), T&G OSB or ply subfloor, finish floor prep, and finish floor.  It ends up being at least $6-8 a sq ft to put a roof over that basement - instead of lots of control joints in concrete and staining it for a tiled look.  Not to mention the awesomely cheap and effective radiant heat in that slab.  So, then you have the basement flooding at least twice in its lifetime and all the BS fixing that.  The age of finishing off the basement for profit is over - in most cases, including interest paid, there never was a profit anyways.  I could go on and on..

[sawdust]

North of you here in Alberta I know of two houses that are on rubble trench foundations. One of them is strawbale construction the other I do not know.
If I build again I will not have a basement. I would like to have a small cellar to put the services and connections into.

david