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Husqvarna 372xp Questions

Started by Gene, June 24, 2010, 12:21:49 PM

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Gene

I have a 2003 372xp that I use to cut my personal firewood that I purchased new. I had the saw lockup on me just after starting the saw while cutting firewood. The saw was gunned a couple of times but not revved high. I paused to adjust my earplug when the saw locked up while idling.  I was on my 3rd tank of fuel so the saw was not cold. I took the 372 to the dealer who said the crank bearings were shot. The saw has had new crank bearings and crank seals installed by the dealer. Plus a new piston and rings because the piston had a very small vertical crack on the intake side. When I picked up the saw I asked the repair tech if I would be smart to unload this saw or keep it he suggested that I sell it. My understanding from him is that once there is a bearing problem there is something wrong and most likely the bearings will go bad again? I have a 1982 Husky 61 and a 338xpt that I use and have not had an issue with them yet. Has anyone here had crankshaft bearing issues? Does the rebuild last?

Also the dealer asked me if I use the Low Smoke oil. I said that I have purchased 2 6 packs from them over time. He said that the Low Smoke oil is not recommended for the Pro saws. 
Thanks
Gene

jteneyck

Sorry to hear about the troubles with your saw.  I don't own a 372XP but I know they are one of Husky's best, so it's surprising to hear so many things went wrong with yours.  I find it hard to believe that the dealer told you to unload it after they made the repairs.  Makes it sound like they don't trust their own work or there is something else wrong.  I don't knw why a bearing would seize unless it truly was a bad bearing, it wasn't getting proper lubrication (gas mix?), or the air filter was compromised and it sucked in a lot of dirt, etc. 

Anyway, I'll be interested to read the comments of those who own and use 372XP's.  As for the low smoke oil, if you are referring to Husky's XP High Performance oil, I can attest that it works very well.  I've run it for about 5 years in my 385XP for lumber milling and have had no problems. 

John

nmurph

a few things stick out to me

when you say it seized, was it totally locked, couldn't be budged, locked. or was it just difficult to pull and would crank? if a bearing caused the saw to lock-up stifff and not move, then i would want to see the bearing. and this doesn't sound like a likely scenario based on your description. crank bearings are typically high mileage items unless something gets past the filter or something comes loose inside the crankcase. shot bearings are usually either noisey when you spin them or they have vertical movement. did they demonstrate either to you?

the crack on the intake side - do you mean a score on the piston? this is a pretty good sign that you ingested something, but a small score is not likely to lock up a saw.

i don't know what they mean by low-smoke oil??? sythentic?  or a blend? dyno, blend or pure synthetic will have no effect on a bearing. long term a synthetic oil will make moving parts last longer and will cause less carbon build-up on the piston and exhaust post, but i assume you are homeowner and not using your saw commercially so your 03 model is just getting broken in good.

if they replaced the bearings and flushed the case you should not have any fear caused by the new bearings.

i go back to the most common cause of major failure in a chainsaw and that is lack of lubrication caused by inadequate or no oil in the mix. are you sure about the mix you were using?

there was no other damage to the piston?

JohnG28

The low smoke oil is Huskys regular, low grade mix.  Its cheaper and not as well suited to pro grade saws.  You can buy low smoke oil in the blue box store, where they sell homeowner type Huskys.  Maybe using this oil contributed to these failures on your saw.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Gene

nmurph,
The saw was locked up! I could not pull the rope. According to my dealer...upon his disassembly of the crankcase halves to remove the crankshaft he saw that there were several balls missing in both  bearings. Apparently the balls got out of alignment and jammed the the inner and outer races. When I was disassembling the I figured it would be alot easier to move the piston down in the cylinder since it had stopped just below the the top of the exhaust port. so I stuck a screwdriver in the port to pry on the piston and it just move ever so easy after a slight prying on the piston top. My guess  is that when I pryed on the piston it was the opposite direction I unjammed the balls. My dealer said that I must have disintegrated the balls in the chamber. The top of my piston looked like it had been shot peened as it was absolutely clean and no carbon. I checked the play on the crank by hand as I did not use a dial indicator. I could spin the crank while holding the rod and did not feel any grinding or chatter. I thought the piston was the problem. The dealer took his scope and looked in the crankcase and told me the bearings were shot.
There was an actual crack on the intake skirt about 1 inch long. There was damage to the top of the piston from the ball bearing getting beat in the combustion chamber. The top piston ring is crimped in the ring groove.

I keep my air cleaner clean. I keep my saw in a case and it is kept inside in the heated garage. I am guessing but I am thinking about 10 cords a year for firewood. Plus I use my 338xpt to trim with and cut branches till I get into the heavier wood.

The low smoke oil is made by Husqvarna and sold by the dealer. I have always run the premium XP oil in all my saws. I only purchased the low smoke oil when they were out of the XP oil. They did not say that it was not good for my saws! Nor does the label on the little jugs! I have never run the 50/1 ratio in my saws! I run about 32/1 just to be safe.
I do not think the Dealer is doubting their work! I think they are saying that once there is a problem that it could show up again. I was just wanting to know if anyone here has had crank bearings fail? Did they have them replaced? Do the saws still run OK or did they fail again? 

JohnG28,
The Dealer told me that the low smoke oil is not for use in the Pro Saws! I don't why they do not say that on the bottle. The oil can not handle the higher rpm's that the Pro Saws run at! I have only ever used 2 six packs of the low smoke oil! The last time was last spring when I used the last bottle. I have only used 4 of the XP bottles that are only half full since then!

Thanks
Gene

JohnG28

Your right about about the higher rpm of the pro saws, the HP synthetics are better suited for them.  I agree that if not intended for a specific saw it should be stated on the bottle.  I dont know if your running at 32:1 that the oil is the problem though.  Could be a coincidence.  Was the saw tuned right, not set too lean? If it was too lean could have been reving too high, causing the bearing failure.  If your saw was set lean then using  32:1 oil ratio could have made it worse. Not likely, but possible.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

boobap

Wouldn't 32:1 be better if it is TOO lean; more oil in the little amount of mix actually making it into the integral parts? Yes I agree with the higher RPM's, but wouldn't MORE damage actually be done by using 50:1?

JohnG28

Well its not likely that the ratio would be the killer, but in theory with less gas per part oil, this could procuce a lean effect, as theres less fuel with the same amount of air.  I know this has been debated before a number of times, and Im not trying to bring it back to another discussion on fuel/oil ratios, just offering a possibility.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Mark K

I've been running the low-smoke oil for a couple of years. I think that is all my dealer carries. I buy the 2.5 gallon six packs and mix it 50:1 with 93 octane. I use the same mix for my 372's, 385's and my Stihl 044-046. These saws have been put thru the ringer from 95 deree heat to 20 below zero weather with no problems. I'll run thru 2.5 gallons in about 2 days time cutting, skidding and bucking by myself and even more if I have another cutter. I personally don't think its the oil. I think there were other issues that came into play. Good luck.


Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

John Mc

Was your 93 octane fuel 10% ethanol? That can cause some real problems if you are not really careful with it. If you get phase separation, the ethanol combines with water and sinks to the bottom. This ethanol/water mixture contains no oil (the oil and gas float on it). If that's in your tank and gets sucked up into the fuel pickup, you're pulling in a mixture with no lubrication. A few shots of that when your saw is running along at 14,000 RPM can ruin your whole day. The ethanol/Water mix is also corrosive.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

jteneyck

I rebuilt a Stihl saw a couple of years ago.  Had a scored piston on the exhaust side and the ring was fried.  When I got the piston out I found the bearings didn't turn smoothly, so I took the bottom end of the saw apart and found that the bearings were corroded/rusted (but not siezed) so I had to replace them as well.  I can only guess it came from water.  The owner said the saw had never been left out in the rain and was stored in a case in a dry garage.  JohnMc, your comment about water picked up by ethanol containing gas, phase separation, etc., is the first plausible explanation of how this might have happened.  Makes sense, and is reason enough to use gas stabilizer and a tightly sealed gas can. 

Cut4fun

Quote from: boobap on June 24, 2010, 05:52:36 PM
Wouldn't 32:1 be better if it is TOO lean; more oil in the little amount of mix actually making it into the integral parts? Yes I agree with the higher RPM's, but wouldn't MORE damage actually be done by using 50:1?

Here is what I think on this part. If the saw was running lean on 50:1 (carb set lean) and the guy went to 32:1 it would even be leaner at the carb setting. 

Yes I run 32:1 on everything and tune saws to 32:1, extra oil is cheap insurance IMO. Only if tuned right from the get go.

So if I work on some guys saw that refuses to run 40:1-32:1 and still runs 50:1 at least I know it is running a little richer at the carb when he does so.

Mark K

Cut4fun- do you think I should switch over to a 32:1 mix. I haven't had any problems and my gas is pretty much always fresh. I have always used the 50:1 mixture and still have a early 385 that we run almost every day and haven't rebuilt it yet. I know with the ethanol it changes things. 
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

Gene

Thanks to all who have replied to my post! I will post some pics of the piston and bearing on Sunday.  I only have one bearing and it shows no rust. Its just a dirty gray material. Today starts the Steel Valley Nationals! aka Hot Rod Nats. So I will be Motorheadin!
Thanks
Gene

Rocky_J

The purpose of the oil in the gasoline is to lubricate the engine and prevent wear. I run synthetic oil at 50-1 and that is enough lubrication to prevent any significant wear even on modified saws over 10 years old. Extra oil will not help me because additional lubrication is not necessary.

When you ask if you should switch your mix ratio, you need to stop and analyze exactly what that does and why. Then evaluate your own needs and determine if the change is necessary for your situation.

barbender

I had a 2165 Jonsered that threw the lower rod bearings and sucked one up the side of the cylinder. Had maybe cut 100 cords of wood with that saw, it was just out of warranty of course. The dealer took my saw on trade on a new 2171, they were going to part mine out. He suggested the 50:1 ratio as the culprit, he said he never used to see bearing problems in the old 670's, Husky 266's and the like, when they were at 32:1. So I've been running my saws at between 32:1 and 40:1, haven't had any problems. BTW the 2165 is the same crank as your 372, and I always run no alchohol premium gas in my small engines.
Too many irons in the fire

Gene

I have uploaded some pics. I created a Album but do not see how to provide a link? Please advise!
Thanks
Gene

Cut4fun

Quote from: Gene on June 28, 2010, 07:47:03 PM
I have uploaded some pics. I created a Album but do not see how to provide a link? Please advise!
Thanks
Gene

Here is your link to gallery.  https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=12482

John Mc

Quote from: jteneyck on June 25, 2010, 10:05:09 AM
JohnMc, your comment about water picked up by ethanol containing gas, phase separation, etc., is the first plausible explanation of how this might have happened.  Makes sense, and is reason enough to use gas stabilizer and a tightly sealed gas can. 

Sounds like a possibility. Ethanol will mix with gas, the problem is, it mixes better with water. The ethanol in the fuel mixture will actually suck moisture out of the air and combine with it. Since chainsaw tanks are vented, they can "breath" as they warm up and cool down, bringing in fresh air and thus a ne batch of moisture to combine with. Eventually, the ethanol/water mixture settles out, and the gas/oil stays floating on top of it. The stuff that settles is corrosive (and eats some types of plastics and rubber).

In addition, gas mixed with 10% ethanol gets about 3 or 4 points of its octane rating from the ethanol, so once the ethanol settles out, the remaining fuel is now that much lower octane. So even if the ethanol/water mix doesn't get you, the gas may still be a problem. In a stock saw, it may still be high enough octane if you started with 93 octane gas. If you started with 89 octane or lower, you're probably in trouble.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Ironwood

I have not had any problems w/ my 372's 394's or 338's. Certainly a bummer.


Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

SawTroll

Quote from: Cut4fun on June 25, 2010, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: boobap on June 24, 2010, 05:52:36 PM
Wouldn't 32:1 be better if it is TOO lean; more oil in the little amount of mix actually making it into the integral parts? Yes I agree with the higher RPM's, but wouldn't MORE damage actually be done by using 50:1?

Here is what I think on this part. If the saw was running lean on 50:1 (carb set lean) and the guy went to 32:1 it would even be leaner at the carb setting.  

Yes I run 32:1 on everything and tune saws to 32:1, extra oil is cheap insurance IMO. Only if tuned right from the get go.

So if I work on some guys saw that refuses to run 40:1-32:1 and still runs 50:1 at least I know it is running a little richer at the carb when he does so.

You (and Rocky) sure are right that it will run even leaner with more oil in the fuel, if the carb settings are the same.

With a good synth oil, I don't believe there is any point than adding more oil to the fuel than 1:50. I have seen no real indications or proof that there is, even on 1960ies saws, that was rated for 1:25 with the oil availiable back then.  :)
Information collector.

sharkey

Any indication that the bearing spun in the case?

Gene

Hello to everyone!
Finally got my back and reassembled. Did a little break in and cut some wood Friday and Saturday! The saw runs well! I am just holding my breath for awhile. No the bearing races did not spin on the case or the crank journals! I just hope the 372 holds together now!
Thanks

SawTroll

Information collector.

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