How do you saw decking?

[Larry]

Really a two part question as I'm thinking of buying a hydraulic mill and want to make sure it will do the job.  I've not sawed much decking so thought I would ask for advice.

At present I take off a slab and maybe a flitch.  Rotate 180 and do the same.  Rotate 90 degrees and I'm almost ready to make boards.



Saw down to the log supports and rotate 180 again.




How hard is it with a hydraulic mill to rotate the three cants?  Is there another method?




Saw down to the bed.  You can see a shim cut just above the last set of boards.  My mill is far to slow on the up/down to make any production.  I can't reliably gig back through the kerf.  Need a mill with a fast up/down.  Would a drag back work in this application?






Crank up the bed roller and fetch the whole mess with forks...at this point never touching a board.  I suppose most mills could raise the boards with the toeboards...but could I get close nuff with a loader to pick them up?  The guys that I have sold to sometimes put the boards down the same day I saw them.

The boards I was sawing today are 5/4 for a porch deck...that's why they look a little skinny.

[kelLOGg]

How hard is it with a hydraulic mill to rotate the three cants?  Is there another method?

I use a cable winch mounted on the mill to load and turn (see gallery). Turning multiple cants is as easy as turning one. The heavier the cant the tighter the cable grabs so even if the cants slip a bit on one another they all turn together.

Bob

[Tom]

You learn the little idiosyncrasies of your mill and find the way to accomplish even the most difficult tasks.  Yes, dragbacks are great, sometimes you still want the ability to pin them up out of the way.

I can turn a 3-split cant with not much trouble, though, I'll have to admit that  I lose one now and again and must play pick-up sticks putting it back together again.  Turning one that is already boards is a chore for sure.  But, the only time you have to do that is when you are making something like 2x4's out of a 16x16 or 20x20 cant.

I've gotten to the point that I want all of my decking cut a full 4/4 and preferabley 5/4.

When you saw it, much will be flat-sawed.  When you put flat-sawn decking down, make sure that the pith side is down and you will minimize "shelling" on the walking surface. 

[pineywoods]

This (turning 3 cants at a time) is where the woodmizer 2 plane clamp really shines. My homemade Pineywoods turner/clamp works pretty good also. I do a lot of this kind of sawing.

[sigidi]

Larry, I'm not trying to be funny or anything, so don't take this the wrong way - but is that all the boards you got out of that log? 18? and I see 2-3 have considerable amounts of bark on the edges too.

I'm yet to see band milling broken down like this, so I'm interested in finding out the ins and outs.

The cuts you took to take the side flitches/slabs off, is that what band millers talk about re-sawing them to get more boards from them?

Then the 'bottom' in the first pic where did this go? where boards sliced out of that, then the 3 cants where rolled over 180 deg is that right?

Doing it this way, don't you end up with a heap of qs boards through the 'original middle' of the log? so in the third pic, the bottom 3 rows look to be qs? I only bring this up as I was told many years ago that decking/flooring boards should only be backsawn or the hardware splits quartersawn boards.

[laffs]

wether its right or not i always 3 side my cants then slice it up befor i start sawing the decking. i have a timber harvester with a chain style turner it works decent for turning 2 or 3 cants like that. the fingers work well on 2 but arent wide enough for 3 .
like tom says theres times when you like the fingers pined back like when the blade gets a mind of its own and dives down its A real pain to back it out.
brent

[tyb525]

I think he did the same with the bottom as he did with the top.

[Tom]

Doing it this way, don't you end up with a heap of qs boards through the 'original middle' of the log? so in the third pic, the bottom 3 rows look to be qs? I only bring this up as I was told many years ago that decking/flooring boards should only be backsawn or the hardware splits quartersawn boards.

Sigidi,
That's a good question about the "side boards".  Yes the flitches removed in the process of squaring the cant do produce more boards. They may be anything from more of what you get from the center of the cant to just getting usable boards.   A band sawyer will also get shorter stock from the tail end of a tapered log too. It's a good place to get those 6'-4"x4" fence posts, or even 8' construction lumber from a 16' log.  All four sides of the log are fair game, but the cant from the center is the "target".  You will hear band sawyers talk about "target" quite a bit.  I suppose circle sawyers think a lot the same way, but it is where you define the minimum square from the log and count backwards to make use of the side boards.

The argument you bring up about the vertical or flat grain for decking/flooring is valid and just goes to prove that there is no "right" way.  It's where the art comes into play, and why you need to talk to your customer.

A flat sawed board will indeed hold fasteners better than a vertical grain (quartersawed) board.  There is less splitting and that means a lot to some folks.  That is why one must be concerned about shelling.   Shelling doesn't occur on vertical grain boards, but it sure can on flat grain.

The other side of the argument is that quartersawn boards (vertical grain) are considered to wear better than flatsawed boards.  There is a lot of early wood exposed in a flat grain board and that wears faster than the harder late wood, which creates decking that wears unevenly.

The vertical grain board exposes more late wood rings to the wear surface so the board wears smoother and is less effected by the wear of the early wood.  Vertical grain boards are less effected by a tendency to "cup".  That is a positive argument used by many who prefer vertical grain decking.  But, the flip side of that argument is that the same vertical grain board is highly prone to "crook", which is a name given to side bend.   If you are using long boards, it can propose a real problem. If you use short boards, it isn't so much of a problem, but it does minimize the amount of clear board you get from the log. 

That last statement also becomes an acknowledged problem with vertical grain boards.  The faults generated by knots are worse, in that they are Spike knots and run across the width of the board with a grain configuration that makes the board worthless if sheer pressures are present.

Flat grain boards have knots too, but the knots are round and don't effect the strength of the board too much if it is tight and enclosed.  If the knot is open (on the edge of the board) it will cause the board to be weaker in a sheer situation too.

So, all of these people that shove their chest out and say, "I only cut quartersawn", or "I only cut flatsawn", are missing the biggest point of all.  They both have their place and a good sawyer and carpenter will learn of their strengths and their weaknesses so that he can get the most use from the log.

Have you heard people talk of bastard sawed or rift sawed lumber?  Most people who are trying to impress others will absolutely declare it to be a waste of a tree, a waste of time and relegate it to the firewood pile.  The fact is that some of the best furniture makers in the world will ask for rift sawn.  It makes great legs, having the same grain on all four surfaces. That it is prone to twist is just something that the furniture maker has to work around if he wants the look.

So, when I'm sawing flooring, I favor vertical grain.  I believe it is the most wear resistant.  But, I'll still not hesitate to throw in a pretty piece of flat sawn either.   

Did you know that there are some woods that are not recommended to saw with a vertical grain surface?   Black Cherry is one of those.  Quarter Sawn Black Cherry is Boring, just as an all quartersawn oak cabinet face may be too busy.  Just because one of the possible surface figures that are exposed by quarter sawn oak is Tiger grain, doesn't mean that every piece of oak should be cut that way.

I've rattled on quite a bit there, haven't I ?  Now it's time for a you to take this with a grain of salt, because all of this writing is just more opinion.  That means that you need to have some opinions and enforced values of your own, so that you can explain them to your customers who might be being anal just for the sake of being anal.

[Kansas]

Larry, both our hydraulic mills can turn those three cants into the final position. Like anything else, it depends on the skill of the operator. We also generally do not pull the boards off as we cut them. The reason being, the weight of the top boards help to keep the cants from bucking up. Takes a little longer to run the sawhead up and down, but not that much. And if we get in a jam turning then, there is always a cant hook or the skid steer to help things out. If we are doing a really big log,sometimes we pull a cant or two off that is the right width. Those go back on the mill after the main part of the log is done.

[Chuck White]

I don't seem to have any trouble turning a 3 or 4 cant for 2x4's and have turned several 3 cant for 2x6's.

[ladylake]

 I used to 3 side my cants but was seeing quite a bit of wasted wood, the 1st cut down I'd get 1 good 2 x6 and 2 with a lot of bark , by taking the 4th side before splitting into 4 or 6 " a lot of time I can get 2 good boards out of that 1st cut.   Steve

[paul case]

ditto on most of this stuff for me. on my manual mill i cut a lot of pallet stuff lately and i find i have less trouble if i keep the width of cut around 12'' .   it is easier to push thru and i have less trouble  with the blade wandering around knots. i cut a few in the last week that i would have left stacked up but they wouldn't fit thru the throat of the mill. i try to unload with the tractor as much as possible. my mills up/down is pretty quick at 1'' per crank.
as for all of toms post some make good and some make a lot of junk. the boards i cut only have to be 40'' so we cut 10' logs and
salvage a lot. our timber is kinda rough and having firewood come off the mill is pretty comonplace. pc


btw the pallet company hasnt complained about qs or plain sawn. they are just real particular about width , height, and lenght with no bark.