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Building a workshop....

Started by Piston, June 12, 2010, 12:26:44 AM

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icolquhoun



didn't do peg holes, tie beams, etc....but I thought since the post is 10" wide, this was similiar to how i was planning on doing my centerpost.

As you can see, the are two (2" wide)mortises at the same height, one for the 10x12 main frame tie beam, as well as the tie beam on the back for the porch.  I messed up and drew the dovetails at the wrong angles, and did the rear one the same size as the front, which I realize you won't have a 12" (11.5") porch tie, but you get the idea.  You'd also want to house the rear tiebeam for the porch tie as well, even though it's on a reference face.  Just a quick sketch to show you how I plan on doing my rear posts.  This gives you quite a bit of headroom on the rear porch.  I also plan on doing the english tying joint using the porch tie/rafter combo.  

Would this work?

Piston

Quote from: Don_Papenburg on January 11, 2011, 09:47:22 PM
I would insulate beforeI put anything inside . 

Actually there has been a change in plans since I started this project.  Now it is going to be a small cabin instead of a workshop, so I will certainly be insulating it.  I definitely don't have all the details worked out yet and am just trying to nail down a definitive design for the frame so I can get my timber list finalized, I'll start cutting some more in the near future if all goes as planned.....


Fred in Montana:
I like your idea, and I agree that there shouldn't be much outward thrust from the porch rafters, I added the tie beams because some well respected guys on here suggested it, and I know just enough to know that I don't really know that much  :D  So I went with the suggestion. 

Also, I'm not sure yet what joint I'll use to tie the porch rafters to the plate?  That was my next question once I figure out my 'busy joint intersection' dilemma.  Maybe I could delete the center porch tie and leave the two outer ones, sort of a happy medium? 


Quote from: icolquhoun on January 12, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
First off, I'm currently in the design stages for a small cabin almost EXACTLY like what you are doing off the sobon shed idea. 

Good, Maybe now that my plans shifted and this will be a cabin we can share some ideas.  Feel free to PM me with your email if you want me to send a copy of my Sketchup file (as well as anyone else who would like it)
Your idea of going with braces from the sill up to the center of the post is interesting, I'll think about that some more but I may want to leave that bay open (on the floor level) as now I think I will be closing in the shed as living space. 

Mine will just be a primitive cabin with a woodstove, not sure if I'll add running water or electricity, but do want to keep the option open. 

I have no idea about the half english tying joint your speaking of?  I haven't seen that anywhere and one important thing I've learned from reading all the major books is that you don't want to invent new joinery, because it's probably already been done and there is a reason its not commonly used.   ;D


Quote from: jamesamd on January 12, 2011, 02:00:55 PM
If that post is 10" wide and your brace housings are 1/2" deep ......
1" housings...

-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

icolquhoun

My cabin will also have a woodstove and no plumbing.  I will have a very small PV system to operate lighting and thats about it.

The english tying joint was in no way shape or form invented by me.  Check out Sobon's 2nd book pages 42+43 or the red book page 28.  I was calling it a half tying joint due to the fact it only has one rafter and half the tie beam for the porch.  I plan on using the "half" of it out at the end of the porch rafters.  This raises the porch tie beam up to the plate(porch) height, giving you more headroom, as well as bringing the end that meets the main frame up in the tie-bean vicinity, hence the need to offset the tenon as shown by my quick post sketch.  I will post up the sketch I have done of the frame I plan on building.  While being very similar to yours, I am using strawbales as insulation (even though using clapboard exterior treatment) and have altered the frame to accommodate them as well as have slightly different overhangs for passive solar consideration as well.  My bents are also unevenly spaced so as to maximize the loft area.

As far as the braces for that center post, I have omitted them and feel pretty confident in that.  Once you see my frame you'll realize why. 

I look forward to seeing the progress on your cabin, it looks great so far, and the time you spend dreaming, sketching and planning now will more than pay for itself in the near future! 

Jasperfield

Piston,

Did you use Bremer's rubies to incorporate the joinery details into your SketchUp drawing?

If so, how (easily) did the installation of the rubies proceed; and have you had any problems with them?

Piston

Quote from: icolquhoun on January 12, 2011, 07:09:06 PM
Check out Sobon's 2nd book pages 42+43 or the red book page 28.

I'll look into that more tonight and thanks for the references.  I think that's really cool your gonna use strawbale insulation!  8)  

Jasperfield,
Yes I did use the rubies and they are extremely helpful.  When my frame is completely done (as far as planning purposes go for the frame plans) I will create shop drawings using his rubies and add all the needed dimensions to the drawing, then print out each member so I have 'blueprints' for each timber.  It is amazing how helpful the rubies are when you learn to use them.  It took me a while though, I have messed around with the program for a long time.  I took a 5 day class at Heartwood to learn to use the program.  You certainly don't need the class to learn it, but it made it so much easier for me and was well worth the money.  I also plan on designing my house frame with it someday, which is the main reason i'm even building this cabin, as practice.  

Installation was easy.  I'm using sketchup 7 now and not 8, I believe there were some minor issues with version 8 but they may be worked out already.  There is a lot of helpful info on the guild forum for sketchup as well.  I just followed clark's directions on his website.  http://www.tfguild.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=23&page=1&PHPSESSID=55742be9e8c48d78613c86a6b692337b
Clark is a regular poster on there as well.

Also, the ability to see the frame in 3d on the laptop as I'm cutting the timber will be very helpful.  The absolute BEST part of the rubies is all you do is create the tenons, the mortises are automatically drawn in the timber, cutting down a bunch of work.  There are steps to make this work though and if I can help you I will, just ask some specific questions, I'm no expert though  ;D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

ballen

...And Clark's customer service is great! The few questions I did have about the Rubies were answered quickly. I'm a fan.  The only draw back in my eyes is that everytime you make a small change in your design, you have to generate new shop drawings which are dimensionless until you manually add dimensions each time. Other than that, they are great!
Bill

Piston

Ballen,
Are you using version 7 or 8?  Do you notice any discrepancies in v. 8 if thats what your using? 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Jim_Rogers

Piston:
You have braces to the plate at the front and back bent. You don't need braces to the plate at the center bent. Remove them and leave the rest of your joinery there. That should work.

Jim

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Piston

I ended up shortening the braces and moving them up about 4" this seems to work well. 
I saw a picture in Steve Chappel's book that looked very similar to what I was looking for. 

I think I may end up omitting those center braces as you said Jim.  For now I'll leave them in so they are included in my timber list in case I decide I like the way it looks better....or rather, I should say in case my wife likes the way it looks better.  :D


I'm still not sure what joint I'll use to tie the rafters, maybe dovetail or tusk tenon, or a combination of the two.  I think for now it is finished enough to where I can print out my timber list, and go to town with the mill.  I'm getting tired of staring at sketchup!
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Jim_Rogers

If you want me to look at your design, more, you could send me the sketchup file....
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Dave Shepard

What's the status of this project? Did the Heartwood class give you any ideas?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Piston

Dave,
Yes I got a lot of good experience from the Heartwood class.  I certainly feel like I can tackle this project now.  I have sent my revised revision of my revision once more revised frame :D to the famous bmike for a final look at my frame.  Once he get's back to me I can make my cut list for the timbers, and if by some miracle, I can make time this fall I will be starting to mill my timbers and cut the joinery in the fall.  Just need to get that mill extension built beforehand, which really doesn't seem to be too bad. 

Thanks for bringing this thread up again, I wasn't sure if I should start a new one when I start cutting the frame, or continue on with this one.  Guess I'll continue posting any updates here. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

JohnM

Quote from: Piston on July 02, 2013, 10:06:18 AMGuess I'll continue posting any updates here.
Yes, please! :)  I only understand about a 1/3 of what you guys are talking about (need to take a TF class and a sketchup class ;D) but it looks like a very cool project, would like to see the progress.

JM
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

Satamax

Quote from: JohnM on July 07, 2013, 12:01:51 PM
Quote from: Piston on July 02, 2013, 10:06:18 AMGuess I'll continue posting any updates here.
Yes, please! :)  I only understand about a 1/3 of what you guys are talking about (need to take a TF class and a sketchup class ;D) but it looks like a very cool project, would like to see the progress.

JM
John, sketchup wise, there's a ton of videos on youtube. This one helped me out a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj3KCcBPLXc
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

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