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Another band mill question

Started by Hilltop366, June 05, 2010, 09:39:35 PM

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Hilltop366

I was looking at some movie clips of some bandmills and noticed that there were a couple of them that saw towards the clamp. I figure this is to avoid cutting into the bark as much as possible. Is there any other advantages to this setup, and what would be the disadvantage(s) if any?

Brad_S.

My mill brand, which is now defunt, cut into the clean faces. The only disadvantage I found was that when the unit got older and the hydraulics wore, the clamps sometimes loosened up a bit. Sawing toward clamps that are weak would allow the log to shift a bit. But then that's after I had thousands and thousands of hours on it.
Given a choice, I would absolutely chose a mill that saws into the clean face over a mill that constantly saws into the bark face.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Tom

When the band is sawing toward the clamp, the dogs are ineffective, other than holding the pressure of the clamp.  You are right that this is done to allow the band to enter clean wood, but it also requires a tighter clamping to overcome the sawing pressures at the ends of the log.

Those mills whose bands saw toward the dogs don't require as much clamping pressure because the log is being pushed up against the squaring dogs by the act of the band sawing the wood.

The latter method is most functional, as far as log and cant handling goes because of the lessened pressures and more support for sawing and log handling, especially when the cant reaches the last few boards or the log is small in diameter.

paul case

my mill saws this way. odd shaped, limby or bent logs always present challenges. i think cutting on clean face on the second cut keeps me from having to prune limby logs on two sides. the mills that cut into clean wood quicker also save on blades. my $.02 worth pc

ps ez boardwalk sawmills also have cant dogs that can be used on the third clean side and the cant doesnt have to be clamped.
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

r.man

Brad, what is your mill brand? If saws are like cars, etc then some good brands have disappeared or been bought out by financially stronger companies. I am intrigued by the cutting into the newly cut side instead of the bark and would like to investigate it more. Thanks.  
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

ladylake

  I'd think it would hard to keep the can't square that way.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Rman,timber harvester used that system along with the clock face dial to read band hight above the bed.TH was/is a good mill and will give any outher bandmill a run for the money.It was not a poor design that sunk their ship. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Bibbyman

I've never sawn on a mill that sawed "backwards" before.  But I've watched a few and thought about it some.   My observation is that there are only a few cuts into the bark side difference from cutting toward the clamp verses toward the back supports. 

Ok, the first couple of cuts on the opening face are a draw – both styles have to cut into the bark to start with.  If you don't make a couple of cuts to open a big face, then the second turn the cut will have to be into the bark again.

If you use the flip and saw 180° method,  the clamping stiles come out a draw again on this face as both will have to cut into the bark to open up that face.

Once the log is into a cant all the cuts are into a clean face so they're both equal again.

The only way I see to gain cutting into a clean face would be to cut heavy on the first face, turn 90° and cut heavy on the second, turn 90 and cut heavy again, and so on.  Am I right?

One backwards mill I watch loaded the logs against the clamp and not the back supports. (do they all do this?)  Looked to me it put a lot of stress on the single clamp when logs rolled against it.  I thought if a short log, or an odd shaped log were loaded,  it may "p-whistle" when it hit the single clamp and go sideways on the mill or off the backside.

On this mill too I noted that the log is placed to the right side of the saw head opening instead of the left side.  It'd be easier to see the clamp and the bark side of the log but how is it for seeing the side the blade is entering?   

Also,   I noted that the dust from sawing has to make a longer trip across the mill in "free air" before it goes out the dust chute on the left side.  When sawing the other way the dust from the cut goes pretty much directly into the head housing and out the chute.

How well does edging thin stuff work on mills that saw towards the clamp with only the clamp to keep them from pulling over by the force of the blade?   Edging thin stuff with four back supports and the force of the sawing working for it is sometimes a challenge.   Would you more likely have to use something like a cant to force them to stay up and square?

It would be an interesting exercise to actually saw a similar average size logs on mills of both designs and see just how many cuts into the bark difference there is.  I'm sure the "into the clamp" design would have a few less but in the total count in sawing the whole log it wouldn't be a big percent. 

Also,  you can saw backwards on a mill that saws toward the back support.  You just have to rotate the log 270° to place the open face against the clamp.  ;)


Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Hilltop366

Thanks for the replies!

Lots of good insight in to both methods, It's got me thinking a debarker would cover most of the advantages to cutting towards the clamp and then some.

Thanks again.

Now about those debarkers...... electric or hyd?  How deep do they cut or are they adjustable?

It never ends does it.

Kansas

Make sure the debarker is spring loaded, or in some way able to keep pressure on. We never use the debarker on our other mill. It was hydraulic, and there was no way of keeping pressure on the log,save holding the handle down. When our sawyers saw, they oftentimes are doing other things when the blade is in the cut, such as getting the previous slab pushed through the edger.

paul case

bibby,
the mill i have has 4 clamps in 16' so clamping to edge is not flimsy. it loads against the backstops,  not the clamp. the sight is restricted on the blade entering  side since it is on the opposite.  my mill has a catcher that stops the head or pushes the stop down if they are up too high. im green but i get along real well with it.
usually when turning the first cut is in the bark unless slabbing heavy.the second cut however is in clean wood. when turned again the first in the bark and the secon in clean wood.it may save 1 or 2 cuts per log going in the bark. for you guys with hydraulics it dont mater much but on my manual mill i only have to turn the log around 1 time instead of 1 and 1/2 times. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Bibbyman

Just what kind (brand) of mill do you have Paul?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

paul case

life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Bibbyman

Yea,  I should have known that.  Getting old I guess.  Where is the pixs?

The EZ mill is manual and sets up on the ground, right?  So just in the process of loading, turning, and clamping,  you can pretty much look over the situation before you start the head down the track.  With bigger hydraulic mills with stationary operating stations,  it's harder to see and keep track of where all the clamps, back supports, turners, loading arms are.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

gator gar

Log Master is another mill that cuts from the clean side. I really liked that feature, but still went with the Woodmizer. Oh and I surely don't regret it either.

ladylake

Quote from: Bibbyman on June 06, 2010, 02:51:54 PM
Yea,  I should have known that.  Getting old I guess.  Where is the pixs?

The EZ mill is manual and sets up on the ground, right?  So just in the process of loading, turning, and clamping,  you can pretty much look over the situation before you start the head down the track.  With bigger hydraulic mills with stationary operating stations,  it's harder to see and keep track of where all the clamps, back supports, turners, loading arms are.


They alway let you know where they are, I came within 2" of a too high stop yesterday. It hasn't happened for so long that all the blade marks are rusty.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Banjo picker

Seems the "backwards" term ....is in the eye of the beholder...Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

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