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Broken Bans

Started by oregonsawer, June 02, 2010, 12:20:04 PM

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oregonsawer

I have broken Eight bans in one week.
They are woodmizer 055 for LT70 Wood mizer mill.
I am sawing Incent Cedar greeen lumber.
I only get about two or three logs sawed and the ban breaks.
Log are clean!
I got 6 boxes from woodmizer last fall and these are from that order.

My belts get cut about every other time and it takes a lot of time to get a band out from
the back of the drive wheel.
The last band had a crack about every inch, And it broke in three places.
I was running 80 pounds on them, went to 75 then 70, No differents.

Does any one have some advise.


Chuck White


Do your belts maintain enough clearance between the band wheel and the band?
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

tyb525

If your belts are getting cut, they might need replaced. How far in from of the guide flange does the blade ride? It should be no more than 1/8". Having it too far forward makes the blade crack in the back.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

ely

how many times have they been resharpened? do you mean you are putting on a new bad and they are breaking that quickly? who does the sharpening.?  while you are running the bands , do you feel any vibration in the head? are your drive belts tight on the wheels or do you have some gap in there.? if they are tight, make certain they are not lop sided as in something underneath one of them making it like an unbalanced tire on a vehicle. if they belts are loose make sure a dirt dobber has not built anything under the belt around the wheel.

oregonsawer

Drive belts are good.
I replace when bad, saw is runing with no vibration!
Bans are new from woodmizer right out of the box.
They are breaking in the weld.
I check the 1/8  spacing every time I replace the ban.

Thanks for the input so far.

ely

try some different brands of bands. im not knocking anyones product but at least you would know where the problem was.
i have personnally seen brands that were bad from the git go. and not just the brand either... it was just one lot of that particular band... afterwords i got new bands and they were back to normal. could have been one employee not working correctly, or one batch of steel that shouldnt have made the grade.

Tom

Oregonsawyer,
IF your bands are breaking in the weld, it's time to talk with woodmizer.  Weld breaks are directly attributable to the quality of the weld.  

Breaks on the back of the body of the band are indicative of a band that is riding on the flange of the roller guide all of the time. (I have made a mistake. It's when the rollers are too far back and the band has to reach for them when in the cut.) :)

Breaks in the gullets are indicative of wear and operator oriented problems

If you are not getting the life from the band and your mill is set up right, start looking at what you are sawing and how you are sawing it.  You might be able to fix the problem by doing no more than changing bands more frequently.  Perhaps you are not getting a blade lubricant to work.  Perhaps you are driving a band too hard.   Heat is one of your worse enemies.

Eastern Red Cedar is a strange animal.  I'm supposing that is what you are calling Incent.

It is a brittle wood and a lot harder than you would suppose.   Heat builds quickly.  Because of the numerous knots, there is a lot of stress put on a band.

When I was sawing it, I found that I had to discipline myself to change bands.  The bands would dull quickly.  I hear that it is because of sand or silica in the wood, I don't know.  I do know that the band will continue to cut cedar even when it is getting dull.  That is a death nell for a band because most sawyers depend on a band telling them that it is dull by not sawing good anymore.   If your band begins to bog down in Red Cedar, you are well past the point of recovery.

Do some diagnostics on the band and determine where it is breaking.  I mean, places other than the weld.   This might tell you of places on the mill to look for adjustment or might be telling you that you need to look at your procedures.

In the meantime,  Tell Woodmizer about the welds breaking.  You might even want to break three or four inches of each side of the weld and have it ready to send to Woodmizer.  On the phone, they are often working in the dark the same as members here.   Having the item will allow them to study it for failure.


ronwood

I would give Woodmizer a call if they are breaking at the weld. They might request that you send one back for evaluation.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

tyb525

Tom, I thought breaks in the back of the blade were caused by being too far in front of the flange, causing too much flexing in the cut when the band is pushed back against the flange?
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

stonebroke

Sounds like a bad batch of blades

Stonebroke

Magicman

WM will replace any bands that break in the weld.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Tom

Quote from: tyb525 on June 02, 2010, 06:00:26 PM
Tom, I thought breaks in the back of the blade were caused by being too far in front of the flange, causing too much flexing in the cut when the band is pushed back against the flange?

Yes, you are right.  I misspoke.
I guess this old  head is beginning to get confused.  :)

Chuck White


MM is right, I've taken a couple of "weld break" bands back to WM and they replaced them, no questions asked!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Magicman

My last box of ReSharps had a "weld broken band" replacement in it.  "No Charge".  Sometimes, for whatever reason, there may be a cluster of weld breaks.  I don't mind them at all.  Sometimes I've had that band resharpened several times, and then get a new band.   :)

It still may very well be that "oregonsawer" has an adjustment/alignment problem that is stressing the bands.  Eight in one week certainly indicates something is abnormal.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WH_Conley

I got a box one time years ago, won't mention manufacturer, used their blades before and since. Almost everyone broke in the weld the first time on the mill. When contacted the supplier (no one on the left side of this page) admitted they had just hired a new welder, they never made up the blades, I never bought anything else from them.
Bill

ladylake

In the first post the blades had a crack every inch, then it turned into breaking in the weld. Which is it?  It makes a lot of difference.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

backwoods sawyer

Having multiple stress cracks sounds like an alignment issue not a weld issue. Time to get the manual out and do a thorough alignment as white cedar is soft and should not be stressing your saws. When I first brought my mill home, it was breaking bands faster then you are, even new saws were developing cracks. I did not take for granted that any component could not be at fault and went thru the whole procedure systematically. In the end, I found several things were having issues. After that, I started getting close to a dozen sharpening from each saw. Taking a maintenance day is not the end of the word. :o
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

tyb525

Tom, I wasn't meaning to be a nag, I just know that you know much more than I do, and just trying to clear things up ;)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

Tom

I know.  I'm glad you caught it.  :)

MartyParsons

Call Wood-Mizer ! They will send you a call tag for the blades. Is this the only box of blades you have? If you have other boxes try some other blades out of a different box. There is a date code on the end of the box. See if you have a different date code and try them. Wood-Mizer makes about 7 miles of blades per day. We dont see many failures but sometimes it happens.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

bandmiller2

Bands are a balancing act if made too soft, great life, but they won't hold set and dull quickly.If too hard they hold sharp and set but crack soon.Most use a softer body and induction hardened teeth.Sometimes a batch will not be up to snuff,it happens to the best of them.Try different manuf. or batch if you still have a problem its the mill if not probibly faulty bands.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

petefrom bearswamp

As he is in Oregon
I'm sure he means Incense Cedar a western tree.
calocedrus decurrens aka librcedrus decurrens
(from my forestry school days)
Pete

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Gilman

QuoteI was running 80 pounds on them, went to 75 then 70, No differents.

Oregon,
I'm just across the Columbia River from you so I'd guess we cut pretty much the same stuff.  I've had to back my tension on my LT70 down to 63 to65 psi.  I was having the same problem as you.  Lowering the tension fixed the problem but, I'm not sure if I don't have something else going on :-\

My saw cuts fine now.  I need to check the tension on the blade with a caliper and double check the accuracy of my pressure gage.  When I do it, I'll respond here and let you know what I found.

Here's how I'll check the tension(stress) in the blade https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,7923.0.html

My 2 year old wanted me to post smiley faces, sorry but she rules the roost.
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WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

bandmiller2

Gilmans old post on band tension is a must read for bandaleros.Myself I try for the least tension I can reliably cut with.I think too many try to mask set and sharp problems by stretching the band too tight.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

J_T

Quote from: bandmiller2 on June 04, 2010, 06:15:58 AM
Gilmans old post on band tension is a must read for bandaleros.Myself I try for the least tension I can reliably cut with.I think too many try to mask set and sharp problems by stretching the band too tight.Frank C.

Yep i agree i did  :D Saw through some dotty wood an a few buckets of ants and it is done for . ::) 
Jim Holloway

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