Sawing Nails

MemphisLogger · October 27, 2003, 08:55:58 AM

I know we all run into them once in awhile, some more than most depending on where your wood comes from. I run into quite a few since I'm sawing mainly urban trees, particularly in Black Walnuts along fence lines.

When I started doing this a year ago, every nail I hit was a minor catastrophe. I'd cuss and beat the log with my cant hook.

I was running regular old woodmizer blades and it seemed that the set was always thrown off or the teeth damaged in someway so I'd take it off, put on a new blade, dig out the offending object and pray that there would be no more nails.

Now I run Woodmizer's DoubleHard blades and it seems that the blade doesn't take a whole lot of damage when I hit metal. Usually, the only decrease in cut quality seems to come from the little pieces of metal that are left on the tip of the teeth.
I've now gotten into the habit of going over the blade with a chainsaw file after I hit something to knock off all these little cut killers.

Does this seem right or am I hurting the blade's overall life expectancy by doing this?

Minnesota_boy · October 27, 2003, 09:08:19 AM

I sometimes will remove the little peices of metal with a screwdriver so I can finish that log, then change to a fresh blade for the next log. I wouldn't think you would hurt the blade much at all doing this unless you are getting quite agressive with the file so as to change the shape of the tooth.

solidwoods · October 27, 2003, 10:05:18 AM

You can pick the metal curls off of the teeth and keep running the blade sometimes (small metal hit, sharp, well running blade to begin with).
But running a blade with teeth that are not uniform with the others will stress the blade and shorten it's life (missing teeth,,,same situation).
You can get some more use out of the blade if you pick out the metal, and use the blade for "lighter cuts" like, edging a few boards.

I don't think you are making any money by going over the blade with a chainsaw file. You can't hand file a band saw blade with any any consistant shape. Putting an odd irregular shape on a blade and running it could cause it to heat up and or stress the blade, again shortening its usefull life.

I know what you mean by urban cutting. The first 8 yr that I sawed was in Savannah Ga, all urban forest logs.

Buy a sharpener and tooth setter. Maybe sharpener first and a pliars type setter ($35ish).

JIM

MemphisLogger · October 27, 2003, 10:14:28 AM

Jim,

I'm not really changing the grind of the blade at all and I'm certainly not sharpeneing it--it's just that the chainsaw file is handy and does a good job of grabbing and knocking off the curls.

Anyhow, I run a woodworking shop too and have always sharpened my own tool blades. I want to eventually get set up for sharpening my own bands but haven't made the investment yet.

When I do, what sharpener do you recommend?

music_boy · October 27, 2003, 02:24:01 PM

I've seen the plier type setter but is there a such a thing as an inexpensive sharpener? I guess a jig to hold the blade and file like for chainsaws. I guess it would be kinda time consuming, but I saw as a hobby and sending blades out is money to me. My time is for free.
Rick

D._Frederick · October 27, 2003, 02:35:36 PM

M-B,
If you have time on your hands and have machine shop tools, you can fab a sharpener like Deadhead did, or LINN LUMBER has a sharpener for about $500.

MrMoo · October 27, 2003, 02:53:41 PM

Urban,
I was hitting a lot nails last year in some pine logs I had. I always switched to a different blade. Later I used scraper to remove the metal on the face of the teeth & then I resharpened & set them. They seemed to work fine after that.

There were some logs though that had 3/8" hooks in them. Those left the blades kind of beat up. I did mange to recover them the same way though.

AtLast · October 27, 2003, 04:25:33 PM

AH HA...the OLE nail in the log trick.....I have definately hit my share of those....was cutting a BEAUTIFUL cherry log the other day and had gotten it down to a 4 x 6 and was starting the next cut when ZABAMBO.....the blader took an upswing but I caught it right away and stopped the advance and blade...well...here....8" into this log were 2 groups of 3 16d nails....I metal detect all my logs because like Urban Logger I to am work primarly with urban logs.....MOST of these logs come out of parks and funny enuf no " surface tramp metal" is to be found ..BUT useally 6 to 8 " into these logs youll hit groups that obviousally someone years ago had nails boards to the tree in order to climb it...Im sure most of you know this but the dead giveaway is the staining in the butt end of the log...from that I can set up the cuts to go above and than turn and basically cut around it...MOST of the time the staining is a good refference point to determine the whereabouts of the tramp metal....I do hit tramp metal but more times than not Im able to work arounf it....

Captain · October 27, 2003, 06:06:19 PM

Even with the swing blade, sawing nails is not a fun thing. I got a 16 penny this last weekend in the bottom of a log. I was careful about checking with the metal detector, but I missed it. Anyhow, not much damage, a couple chips in the carbide. $25 "blade damage fee" for that one.

On the subject of nails, how many of you charge for metal removal? Do you charge by the hour? I understand that some of you charge for a band blade when metal is struck, but I prefer to scan for and remove metal to avert major catastrophes.

Thanks in advance!
Captain

ARKANSAWYER · October 27, 2003, 07:52:10 PM

Like Urban I use a chain saw file to get the metal out of the teeth but use a small flat file and touch up the teeth. I can do a blade faster then you can change one. It saves a bunch of blades as I often hit more metal in the log. They do not seem to break any sooner then the others. If more then one or two teeth are missing then I change the blade. I have some with as many as 6 teeth missing and they get ground till they are two narrow or break.
Getting more galvanized deck screws with the heads broken off and they are tuff on the blades.
ARKANSAWYER

rebocardo · October 27, 2003, 08:09:27 PM

What do you use for a metal detector. The little hand held ones I have seen run about $150.00 Are they any good?

Percy · October 27, 2003, 09:36:58 PM

I have a 100 dollar Radioshack detector that works ok for nails at or near the surface. The thing has way too many knobs and it may work better than what I am able to coax out of it. Thing about nails is,the majority of the time, they are usually pointing toward the pith. If you suspect a nail, and are lucky, quarter sawing reduces the odds of hitting a nail BUT increases the chance of major blade damage if you try to quartersaw the whole nail....

Captain · October 28, 2003, 04:04:46 AM

My detector is a White's Classic II, about $150. It will find stuff pretty deep....6-8" at times. The above mentioned nail happened to be in the bottom of the log I was scanning and I missed it because the log was too big to roll and check the bottom.

Captain

woodmills1 · October 28, 2003, 05:41:03 AM

sharpened and set 19 of my oldest blades yesterday. they havent been touched since I last used them around 99. getting ready to cut a jag of logs that i am certain have metal in them. Nothing like that zip/zing sound when the blade goes through a 10 penny. really hate drywall screws though :D

RMay · October 28, 2003, 06:13:59 PM

I've been getting a lot of bob wire lately The American wire you can saw through and not get too many teeth on a band but the Japanese wire will clean all the teeth off band :-[ when a customer says there no metal in a log and there are I always tell them to watch the boards when they run them through the planer ;)

RevCant · October 29, 2003, 07:01:16 AM

I was sawing a walnut yesterday when I ran into a long stretch of wire.

Took out 5 of my 8 teeth (I run a swing blade). I sharpened the three remaining teeth and continued cutting 8/4 boards, albeit a little slower. I charge $5 per tooth damaged.

When I was running a bandmill, I gave up using a metal detector. As I charge by the hour for custom sawing, it can out cheaper to hit the occassional nail, change the blade, dig the metal out, and charge $25 for the blade if it was trashed, than to spend the time hunting and digging for nails that I only knew the general location of. I basically used the bandsaw as my metal detector.

With the swing blade, nails aren't nearly as devestating, but they're still a pain. Yard trees will always have them, as well as the logs that the customer swears up and down are metal free. Anyone ever hit a porcelain electric fence insulator? :'(

MemphisLogger · October 29, 2003, 08:05:22 AM

That's pretty much becoming my attitude too, RevCant.

If I'm sawing for someone else I'm charging by the hour and getting paid for the downtime changing blades as well as $8 for resharps or $20 for ruined.

If I'm sawing for resale, I figure the value of huge walnut slabs is a lot more than resharp costs.

If I'm sawing for my own woodworking, that purple stain is kinda cool ;D

Captain · October 29, 2003, 11:00:08 AM

Good to hear from you, RevCant. I need some help here from time to time with the band millers. How's the family? Your Father?

Captain

RevCant · October 29, 2003, 04:13:13 PM

Yeah, those bandmillers can wear your kerf thin sometimes :D. Dad's doing well, still tails for me when I'm sawing on the farm. Not bad for 82. How's your family? I trust the mill is working well and Mrs. Captain allows you to play with it every now and again.

Take care ....