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87-89-92 octaine any recommendations

Started by davefrommd, October 26, 2003, 08:11:01 AM

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davefrommd

I know my stihl calls for 89 octaine as it sais in the manual that it will knock and run hot if using the lower grade gasoline. How about using the better gas on other chainsaws or is it best to just stick with the 87 octaine. Dave

SasquatchMan

Dave, as far as I understand, higher octane is better, generally speaking, as 2 strokes run pretty hot, and auto-ignition (pre-firing, pinging, whatever you want to call it) is common if you do'nt have high enough octane.  I don't know if there's a limit to how high an octane you should run.
Senior Member?  That's funny.

Stephen_Wiley

Anyone open to stretching their minds on this...........

A fuel engineer told me their is no real difference in pump octanes.
Not that I believe this, but..............

Ever watch the product being delivered to a station?  Usually a double tanker occasionaly a single tank. .......... I have watched him fill all three holding tanks with the same product. So what is it we are really getting?  

When I lost three saws due to the introduction of 'alcohol' in fuel. I proceeded to ask for product contents from station owners..............none knew or were required to know.  (Big gas company secret protected by Federal measures).

" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

jokers

Hi Stephen, Those are interesting points you make. I`ve never really paid too much attention to the tankers but know that any tank truck will have baffles or partitions to prevent weight shift from sloshing. The existence of the baffles is not apparent to the casual observer from the outside, but they exist none the less. I also seem to think that I have seen several hose connections on the tanks, indicating the ability to transfer different liquids from several different areas of the tanker. What the fuel supply company actually puts in the tank could be a whole `nother story. Federal law requires that an MSDS, Material Safety Data Sheet, which lists the constituents, hazards, and chemical reactivity for any particular hazardous chemical compound be available at the customers request. So, I`m not disputing that the local gas retailers gave you a smokescreen but the law is on your side if you really wanted to know.

Whether or not the adverstised octane is important is a subjective matter. I do know that certain vehicles like the Dodge Durango that my wife had would ping like crazy on Economy unleaded but was fine on the other grades. Higher octane also seems to equate to easier starting of my saws when they are hot but I admit that my observation is less than scientific. Awhile ago on another forum, a guy who was a fuel systems engineer for one of the big three automakers stated that regular grade gas actually has a slightly higher energy content than the premium blends due to the amount of additives diluting the basic gas, if I recall his explanation correctly.

My outlook is to always meet or exceed what the OEM recommends and all of my saws call for atleast 89 octane.
To borrow a phrase, "your mileage may vary".

Russ

fencerowphil (Phil L.)

Somebody up or down the chain of command of the gasoline and convenience store chains is being snowed.

    Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether  is the reason.

When lead additives were removed, this cancer agent was the gracious gift of the petroleum industry to gas-guzzlers like US.  

When I buy lacquer, paint removers, etc. , the legally required Tech. hazard sheets usually run a page and a half per product.  In order to receive certain epoxies by UPS, I have to pay an extra 20 hazardous material handling and packaging fee.  (And they do have to use a special, multiple-layered, absorbent package to ship it.)

If these dealers can sell gasoline with stuff in it as bad as this, and not be legally bound to maintain a hazard sheet on it, well, as Jed Clampitt once  said,  "Boy , Hidy!"

Phil L.
P.S.  Hope someone out there knows the scoop.
Bi-VacAtional:  Piano tuner and sawyer.  (Use one to take a vacation from the other.) Have two Stihl 090s, one Stihl 075, Echo CS8000, Echo 346,  two Homely-ite 27AVs, Peterson 10" Swingblade Winch Production Frame, 36" and 54"Alaskan mills, and a sore back.

Stephen_Wiley

 Joker wrote: "I also seem to think that I have seen several hose connections on the tanks, indicating the ability to transfer different liquids from several different areas of the tanker. What the fuel supply company actually puts in the tank could be a whole `nother story."

I recall seeing quick disconnects, colored dials, as well. But are they really the 'ability' or rather just an impression of mixing?

The response I have received over and over from numerous stations in the past is:  they have no MSDS or any other fact sheet upon product ingredients. Some station owners have made requests from the gas companies which refused to make them available.

Has anyone on this site seen an MSDS for fuel avaiable from the pump?

The site below describes how it is not octane which makes the difference but rather the r+m equation of an octane performance which we address.  I also use the higher performance for my saws.  But in my vehicles.........listen for pinging if so move up, but are the additives really performing as claimed or..... ?

"The octane number assigned to a motor fuel has very little to do with the actual chemical "octane's" (C8-H18) in the fuel and everything to do with how well the fuel resists detonation (which is directly related to the amount of energy (heat) required to get the fuel burning).

It is possible to assign Octane values to fuel containing no octane's whatsoever."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found this statement at the following site:

www.fitchfuelcatalyst.com/techinfo/aboutfuel.html

" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

jokers

Hi again Stephen,
Do we more or less agree or have I missed your point?

Russ

Stephen_Wiley

Yes Joker,

I would say were in agreement.  It is always an eye opener to sometimes take notice of the things we take for granted or accept with out question.

It is good in that we learn from these inquisintial moments by seeking the known facts.
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

IndyIan

I try and get 93 or 94 octane gas or the highest available, sometimes that's 91.  

The reason is that the longer gas sits around the lower the octane gets.  Especially in plastic containers.  

I figure that if I start with 93 octane then after a couple weeks it should still be atleast 89 octane and my saw will still be happy 8)

If I start out at 89 and it goes down to 85 octane I might have some problems :(  And I'd feel really dumb if I wrecked my saw by "saving" $0.80 on gas :'(

Ian

Frickman

My local Stihl dealer reccomends 89 or better octane, but prefers you to use premium 92 or 93. He said that he is currently having a lot of repairs due to poor gas, usually economy 87 from discount gas stations. I run nothing but premium because it is only a few cents a gallon more and you get a lot of work done with a gallon of saw gas. If you run a gallon or two through in a day you're too tired to worry about twenty cents anyhow.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Larry

Frickman,
I am getting almost the exact same story from my Husky dealer.  He also say's if the gas mix is 3 months old don't use it.  Get fresh gas.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

SawInIt CA

I use 92 octane as well. I mix once a month and toos the old into the forklift or the wifes truck.

Captain

I run premium in anything that is air cooled.

In my vehicles, I run the lowest octane that it will tolerate without preignition.  Most newer vehicles have abilty to sense preignition and retard the timing to reduce its ill efects.  This can lead to performance and economy losses.  The moral of the story is the best fuel for your automobile or truck is probably the fuel it gets the best fuel economy with (miles per gallon)  

Captain

woodmills1

My onan 24 on the sawmill had a carbon build up problem at 800 hours.  Once fixed I switched to midgrade only and no problem now at 2000 hours.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

catman

A simple google search provides the MSDS on gasoline

Here is the MSDS on Conoco and Phillips 66 gasoline, different octanes.

http://www.chamberlainoil.com/fuel/retail/products/_inc/c_content.asp

Stan

After my Husky 51 siezed, the dealer told me he's been seeing a lot of saws doing the same thing. He thought it was due to oil seperation in the low octane gas. Then he sold me another saw. I wish he'd have told me that with the first one. I'm buying 91 Octane fuel at the nearest BP. The nearest station is a high priced, no name gas.  :-/
I may have been born on a turnip truck, but I didn't just fall off.

Stephen_Wiley

Stan,

After loosing three saws to 'alcohol' added to gas. I began to carry a glass jar for gas and alcohol detection.

All service stations allowed me to test for alcohol and many were quite embarassed when the test showed positive.  Obviously, they could not make a sale to me and anyone else with two cycle equipment.

At one time B&S and other large manufacturers had a class action suit against the oil companies.  Last hearsay was they lost.

To me and the many others who lost equipment .....no recourse to recover losses was available.

Now, does the public have reason to 'question' gas products and the statements made about their contents?

Sorry you lost your ' 51'.
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

SawInIt CA


Stephen_Wiley

Alcohol and Water are colorless clear liquids not distinguishable by sight.

They have what is known as a "universal marriage" (If in proximity of each other they will unite).

Take a glass quart size jar - fill it with water about 1/3 full - take a marking pen and mark level of water ......now add gas from pump (roughly a 1/3 or so).  If alcohol is present it will immediately unite with water raising the level of clear liquid above mark on outside of jar.  Gas is lighter and will be on top.

" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

SawInIt CA

Thanks Stephen,
I think my saws just got an extended warranty :D

jokers

Very good idea Stephen. I always buy from the same staions and haven`t had any trouble yet but I think I`ll start employing your technique anyway.

Russ

Gus

Excellent info. Stephen. I've never had any trouble with small engines but this test will assure that I won't.
In SD it is tough to find higher grades of gasoline without ethanol. The promotion of ethanol id BIG in this corn growing state. I'm sure states like Iowa are the same way.
Gus
"How do I know what I think unless I have seen what I say?"

donald_harby

An idea I have always had is to run aviation gas.  It is designed for air cooled engines and is 100 octane.  Problem is it is like twice the price of car gas.  But like has been stated before a few gallons of gas goes along way.  BTW I have worked at airports and most small airports would have no problem selling you the gas.


Mark M

I don't know if this would be a problem or not but the aviation gas is heavily leaded.

Mark

IndyIan

So what's the problem with ethanol in gas?  Is the 2 stroke oil not soluable in alcohol?  Is it a problem to use gas with 10% ethanol?  I just checked my 372 manual and it doesn't mention anything about ethanol in gas.  It also says 87 octane is the minimum but higher octane should be used for continuous high speed running.

I remember reading about an alcohol fueled CR500 dirtbike.  It used vegetable oil in the mix :)  I guess alcohol burns so cool that they could use it.  The bike was also traction limited to 135mph...  Think about that for a second  :o

Ian

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