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cheap structural upgrade on tf building

Started by Alexis, May 05, 2010, 08:43:22 PM

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Alexis

Hello, I wonder what you guys think of this.

I plan on building my house with traditional tf joint. I am also thinking of adding cheap metal connector on the exterior (reference) face of the timber. These would be hidden ( I will spray foam the whole frame). I'm thinking that for maybe 100$ of cheap metal straps, I will have a little a strength upgrade that could compensate for some of the joinery which will surely not be perfect.

It seems like a good idea to me but maybe I am missing something because everybody would be doing that... I'm not talking about the super Simpson architectural straps or anything fancy, just some simple steel straps maybe 1"X6" or something like that...

I know my building will already be structurally sound but... just seems to me it would give me a little edge more....

Thanks for input

Alexis

shinnlinger

I do the same thing all the time.  Cheap insurance @$1.19 a pop.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

zopi

Timber frame done right will last centuries...the problem with the way we build things is that we're lazy...nobody wants to reside a building every few decades or paint stuff regularly, we go in for cheap construction or the next new fangled idea...I'm living in a house that is 130 years old, and while I make some sacrifices..it will be here long after I am gone...it was built with wood, nails, plaster and tin...and a few bricks...so, whatcha want "insurance" for if it is done right, it will last.

Not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with post and beam or using reinforced bolted joints...but why? after seeing a few century old hickory pegs in oak holes, particularly where metal would have rusted away long ago..I'm sold on what my forefathers knew...but then I use a
high wheel plow to cultivate too...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

shinnlinger

Zopi,

  what I think what Alexis is asking about is after making a  traditional joint, just like has been done for centuries,  on certain areas use a cheap metal nail plate on the backside where it wont be seen just in case.  The joint still does the work but in my mind it holds the frame together a little better until I get it decked and sheathed.

Dave
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Brad_bb

With traditional joinery, I don't see the need for this.  The metal (nails) will react with the wood over time and blacken/corrode the nails and rot the wood around the nails.  A correctly designed timberframe will stand the test of time.  With that said, with SIPS you may need some screws to fasten.  At the very least, an Epoxy/powder coated screw like Timberlocs will last far longer than uncoated screw or nail.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

shinnlinger

I don't see how it will rot/corrode since it is not exposed to the weather....  I will also be long gone before that happens.... and if it does the frame is still intact
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Alexis

I do not want to replace the traditional joint...

It's like when you hook up a trailer, even though there is a steel ball that hold the trailer to the truck, you still hook up two chains just to be sure...

I truly believe in the traditional joint, but for a few bucks, it seems to be worth it to add rigidity in case of tornado, earthquakes...

Alexis

maineframer

A correctly made mortise and tenon joint will last for centuries.
I think that the best insurance you could invest in would be practice.
Practice on making your tie beam connections, your knee braces and your rafter feet.
This will take time and effort---all that is worthwhile does.
But in the end you will have the experience to do better joinery on your home.
Your skills will improve with time.
Adding metal "scab plates" to a poorly fitted frame just sounds like a bad idea.
In my opinion a correctly framed stick frame would be superior to that.
David

shinnlinger

Perhaps I will clarify where I use them.  I do not rush my framing and make sloppy joints thinking I can get by with nail plates later.  That said, I am not vain enough to believe that ALL my joints are perfect and that every piece of wood in my frame is clear and free of defects. 

If you are reusing a frame this is even more of an issue.  Is that epoxy injected, slightly undersized, kinda punky tenon you reamed the old peg out of REALLY up for this??? Yeah it held for the last 200 years, but does it have another 200 in it?

Where I  tend to use them is to connect a run of purlins together across the middle of my roof over the top of the rafters.  On a bigger roof, I might make 2 or 3 runs.  I will do similar over the top of floor joists.  Dove tail them instead you mights say, but I have heard mixed reviews on the real holding power of a dove tail and they take longer if you have 200 to do.  I have also used them on the outside of eave plates when the posts extend up to create a knee wall.  The piece of mind that that $15 buys you if your frame is going to sit out for a while while it is sheathed is priceless (Use galvy nails).  If I knew I was putting panels on tomorrow, I might not bother, but then again a good wind can ruin your whole day and 10x12 rafters catch alot of wind.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Brad_bb

Shinnlinger, In the end, you can do what makes you comfortable.  If you're reusing a barn frame and giving it a new life, good on you. 

  Metal does react with wood over time, a chemical reaction.  If you have used any barn reclaim, you may see nails that are rusted and falling apart, that have not been exposed directly to moisture. Moisture would definitely accelerate it, but is not necessary other than ambient humidity.  Yes it will take a long time 50-100 years for the nails to start to lose their integrity, but it does happen.  The nail or bolt will begin to corrode and the wood surrounding the hardware will blacken The wood has some acidity as I understand, and humidity/moisture level will accelerate it's chemical reaction with the metal.  Haven't you ever seen the blackened wood around a nail in old barn wood?  Yes this will occur after we are gone, but if your family has this frame into the future, you never know, they might have to deal with it someday- someone will.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

shinnlinger

I see the metal as a way to hold the frame together a little bit better while awaiting sheathing or panels. If it was a quick timeline between frame erection and sheathing it becomes much less of an issue.  Once those are installed the whole house system works together as a unit and the integrity of the nails/steel become irrelevant.  They are not visible either once the house is finished so it is not a problem someone has to inherit.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Raphael

At the insistence of my building inspector, I've got metal straps joining the sills to the posts in my Sobon frame.  I figure the entire mass of the house plus the bolted on SIPs should be sufficient to keep the stub tenons in place, but he wasn't going for it.

I've also got timber links providing some additional hold down to the tie beams in the office as well as one hidden in a purlin pocket that ties the north side of the office to the Sobon frame.  If the winds around here were much higher I'd have added hurricane clips to Jack's roof system as well.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

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