iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

one ton sufficient?

Started by redcedar, April 29, 2010, 10:02:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jamie_C

I think you guys are all missing a few brain cells if you routinely haul loads like that around behind either a 1 ton or 3/4 ton truck. These are accidents waiting to happen all to save a few bucks on hiring a genuine float truck.

If we tried something like that up here the fines would probably bankrupt us and we would lose our license for a long time and probably never get insured again. And thats without getting into an accident.

BARPINCHER

No Brian,  You are deff wrong.  It is comm vehicle, it is ok they ran it thru the wringer to get verification before it was okd to use it so no mistake on their end to test in it and Yes it's been thru a bunch of Dot stops and I had everything I needed.  Maybe you have different cops in your part of the stateLOL.  Send them my way so I can save a few bucks.
Serving hunters and the hunted with science based; non-traditional resouce management methods

Dave Shepard

I just looked at the Ford website and an F350 has up to 18,700 towing capacity. F450 has 24,700.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

chevytaHOE5674

A 2011 3500HD silverado will tow 20,000lbs. A GN rated for 20k weights around 6k itself. So that means you could put ~14k on the trailer.

According to Federal laws over 26,001lbs combined truck and trailer GCWR (2011 3500HD GCWR is 27,500) and trailer over 10,001lbs you would need a class A CDL.

Meadows Miller

Quote from: mahonda on May 07, 2010, 07:38:50 AM
I use a twenty four foot goose neck with 20,000 gvw, behind my one ton GMC one ton duramax with airbags, to move my 508 cat skidder. Pulls great just have to make sure the trailer brakes are working!



Mahonda the coppers overhere would be tearing ya a new one before you even got outa the cab with that one Mate  ;) :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Gary_C

Quote from: mahonda on May 07, 2010, 07:38:50 AM
I use a twenty four foot goose neck with 20,000 gvw, behind my one ton GMC one ton duramax with airbags, to move my 508 cat skidder. Pulls great just have to make sure the trailer brakes are working!


He can easily be legal with that load on that combination. I have a F-350 dualy with a 24 ft flatbed and hauled even heavier loads than that. For example, that pickup and trailer probably weighs somewhere between 12,000-14,000 lbs empty and with a load on the trailer, the pickup alone will probably scale that much if you load it properly. So then the 20,000 GVWR of the trailer is available just for your load. So a 17,000 lb skidder would be easily legal if you put enough weight on the hitch.

The only concern I would have is stopping that load on long and steep downhill roads without an engine brake. But a good driver that knows how to get in a low gear before starting down and uses "stab braking" can handle it.  ;D
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Bro. Noble

About 15 years ago we bought a C70 Chev, single axel and wondered how we shoul liscense it.  We stopped at a weigh station and visited with the fellow there and followed his reccomendation.  We have kept with the same liscense since that time and load the truck till it's tongue hangs out without ever being stopped (we have never gone by the weigh station) ;)

After reading this thread,  I assumed it was a 26,000 liscense,  but it is a 36,000 farm tag.  Is this still OK without a CDL?
milking and logging and sawing and milking

gunman63

I dont think u can put enough weight on your truck, legally, you'll be over for the rating on your truck, put to much then your lite on the front axle,  then u lose braking and steering abilty.

Dave Shepard

Gooseneck and fifth wheel hitches are mounted ahead of the rear axle just a bit. This is to put some of the load on the front axle and to help avoid the rear end getting pushed around in a corner. You are allowed to put 15% of the trailer load on the hitch with a GN, and 10% with a bumper hitch. You can put weight on the truck until you hit your max truck gvw. Axle weight ratings (and tires) on trucks totalled up exceed the total gvw of the truck. This way you can carry your load in different configurations, like in the bed, or a plow hanging off the front. Example: my '99 Dodge 2500 has a 4850 front axle and a 6000+ rear, but only an 8800 gvw. Tires add up to around 12000 with load range E.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

gunman63

most long bed pickups  cant get the the hitch to far ahead of the axle, short boxes a little further, u can still only put weight on the truck up no the max on the door sticker, even if it adds up to more the DOT uses the lower rating, tires  mite add up to 12,000, but truck doesnt  have a GVW of that.

Gary_C

Quote from: Bro.  Noble on May 08, 2010, 10:22:41 AM
After reading this thread,  I assumed it was a 26,000 liscense,  but it is a 36,000 farm tag.  Is this still OK without a CDL?

There is a provision in the FMCSA and most states have adopted it, to exempt farmers from the provisions of the CDL. It must be a vehicle that is under the control of a farmer, be hauling agricultural products, and be within 150 miles of the farm where the products came from.

But what do I know as I got in trouble for following those rules this winter. It all depends on who stops you and how much money the government is short at that time. ::)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Mark K

My hitch in my 2500 dodge is dead center of the box, right over the axle. I pull a Big Tex with the 48" spread axles and I back my skidder on. I keep it about 2 feet away from where the hitch goes up. Puts the truck nice and level.

Mahonda: that is one heck of a load. How does that duramax handle it?
Husky 372's-385's,576, 2100
Treefarmer C7D
Franklin 405
Belsaw m-14 sawmill

Warren

Quote from: Gary_C on May 08, 2010, 11:36:00 AM
Quote from: Bro.  Noble on May 08, 2010, 10:22:41 AM
After reading this thread,  I assumed it was a 26,000 liscense,  but it is a 36,000 farm tag.  Is this still OK without a CDL?

There is a provision in the FMCSA and most states have adopted it, to exempt farmers from the provisions of the CDL. It must be a vehicle that is under the control of a farmer, be hauling agricultural products, and be within 150 miles of the farm where the products came from.

But what do I know as I got in trouble for following those rules this winter. It all depends on who stops you and how much money the government is short at that time. ::)

I believe Kentucky allows 38,000 GVW for Farm Tags, without a CDL, but with same restrictions that Gary mentioned.  And unfortunately... it really does depend on who stops you and what kind of mood they are in that day...

Warren
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

Dave Shepard

Quote from: gunman63 on May 08, 2010, 11:30:08 AM
most long bed pickups  cant get the the hitch to far ahead of the axle, short boxes a little further, u can still only put weight on the truck up no the max on the door sticker, even if it adds up to more the DOT uses the lower rating, tires  mite add up to 12,000, but truck doesnt  have a GVW of that.


I'm only talking about an inch or two. If you buy a factory hitch with mounting kit, it will not be dead center over the axle. When I mention axle and tire weights in relation to gvw, I'm trying to point out that you have a little leeway in how you achieve weight distribution.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

bill m

Quote from: Gary_C on May 08, 2010, 10:16:11 AM
Quote from: mahonda on May 07, 2010, 07:38:50 AM
I use a twenty four foot goose neck with 20,000 gvw, behind my one ton GMC one ton duramax with airbags, to move my 508 cat skidder. Pulls great just have to make sure the trailer brakes are working!


He can easily be legal with that load on that combination. I have a F-350 dualy with a 24 ft flatbed and hauled even heavier loads than that. For example, that pickup and trailer probably weighs somewhere between 12,000-14,000 lbs empty and with a load on the trailer, the pickup alone will probably scale that much if you load it properly. So then the 20,000 GVWR of the trailer is available just for your load. So a 17,000 lb skidder would be easily legal if you put enough weight on the hitch.
I believe you are 100% wrong about this. A 20,000 GVWR is the maximum that trailer can weigh with a load on it. So if that trailer weighs 6,000 lbs. the most you could put on it is 14,000 lbs. Doesn't matter how you distribute the weight onto the truck.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Dave Shepard

A 20k gvw means he has two 10k axles. That means you can put 10k on each axle, and 3,000 (15% of 20k) on the truck. If you only put 10k on each axle, and nothing on the truck, you would be out of control.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: Dave Shepard on May 08, 2010, 10:18:21 PM
A 20k gvw means he has two 10k axles. That means you can put 10k on each axle

From that 20k you have to also subtract out the weight of the trailer. So if the trailer weights 6k then you can only put 14k on the trailer.

Bobus2003

Y'all have some heavy trailers.. my 32' 20Klbs trailer weighs in at 4950lbs and i have a 24' Longhorn 20Klbs trailer that weighs 4450lbs. My 3/4 and 1 tons have handled me hauling my 440, 550G Dozer and Link Belt Processor around great, I now have a F450 to do it. As for GN Hitch position.. The ball should be 2-3 inches in front of the center of the rear axle.. I have towed with one directly over the rear axle and its easy to lighten the front end up.. Keep good brakes, use low gears for hills and don't forget to use your head and its not a problem.. Be a Dipchit and try to hotdog it around and your lookin to be in a accident.. gotta use your head and it works well

As for just being cheap and not wanting to pay for a Semi and Lowboy to transport me.. Nope.. why pay someone else to do a job that i have equipped myself to handle?

Dave Shepard

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on May 09, 2010, 10:44:04 AM
Quote from: Dave Shepard on May 08, 2010, 10:18:21 PM
A 20k gvw means he has two 10k axles. That means you can put 10k on each axle

From that 20k you have to also subtract out the weight of the trailer. So if the trailer weights 6k then you can only put 14k on the trailer.

No, you put 10k on each axle and 3k on the truck. You can haul 17k.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

BARPINCHER

OHSOLOCO and the rest of you Pa guys: to answer your question in Pa you can pick up a truckers handbook at most notary's.  They also have a 1-800-932-4600 to call to answer any questions you may have that the book doesn't answer or you want clarified.
Serving hunters and the hunted with science based; non-traditional resouce management methods

bill m

Quote from: Dave Shepard on May 09, 2010, 04:15:55 PM
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on May 09, 2010, 10:44:04 AM
Quote from: Dave Shepard on May 08, 2010, 10:18:21 PM
A 20k gvw means he has two 10k axles. That means you can put 10k on each axle

From that 20k you have to also subtract out the weight of the trailer. So if the trailer weights 6k then you can only put 14k on the trailer.

No, you put 10k on each axle and 3k on the truck. You can haul 17k.
Dave,
What you are referring to is weight distribution. That 10k on each axle includes the weight of the trailer. Your trailer fully loaded cannot weigh more than 20k
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

ohsoloco

Quote from: BARPINCHER on May 09, 2010, 08:28:00 PM
OHSOLOCO and the rest of you Pa guys: to answer your question in Pa you can pick up a truckers handbook at most notary's.  They also have a 1-800-932-4600 to call to answer any questions you may have that the book doesn't answer or you want clarified.

I assume I could pick one up at the local DMV as well?  Got one real close to me.  It would be nice to go in there, get what I need, and be out of there in less than a minute for a change  :D

Dave Shepard

You're right, the weight of the trailer is included. 6k+17k=23k. You put 3k on the truck, leaving 20k on the axles. I can't explain it any simpler than that. You're allowable payload for a 20k trailer that weighs 6k is 17k, provided you put the proper tongue weight on the truck.

I'm not arguing what is legal for the truck, the license, or whatever laws are applicable in any state, just the mechanics of allowable payload. This is pretty simple math. When you are scaled, the truck is weighed on each axle, and the total added up to see if you are within the limits of your equipment. If the officer wants to, he can delve into tongue weights and manufacturers GCWR.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

shinnlinger

My cousin got pulled over in PA with his 1 ton w/ GN and the sheriff made him leave his trailer with big bobcat with landclearing head and quad on the highway because it exceeded the GVW of the truck .  The sheriff would not allow the tag on the trailer to come into play, which is of course total BS.  Fortunately the trailer and load where still there the next day (he got a hotel that night and just drove back out and grabbed it after calling his police buddies) and the judge threw the case out, but it sure mucked up his plans that day, the next and the day he went to court.  It really does come down to who pulls you over and if they had their coffee that morning.  If you have a handy state guideline book or internet printout, I would carry it with you at all times and be prepared to NICELY inform the officer why you are legal even if he or she is a total jerk about it.  You WON"T win a shouting match with an officer on the highway, just ask my cousin.  Sure he had his day in court and won, but it was a phyric victory

Good luck.

Dave
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Gary_C

This seems to be going in circles, but I will try again with an example from experience, not speculation.

You have a one ton dually pickup and 20K rated trailer. The empty weight of the combination is 12,000 lbs on the scale. Now you put a 20,000 lb skidder on the trailer. When you put the combination pickup and trailer with skidder on the scale, you find the pickup alone weighs 12,000 lbs, the trailer with skidder weighs 20,000 lbs, and the combination weighs 32,000 lbs. As long as you are not exceeding the tire rating on any axle and you are licensed for these loads on both pickup and trailer, you are perfectly legal.  

I do run a similiar setup. I have a one ton dually pickup that is licensed at 15,000 lbs and a gooseneck grain trailer that is rated right at 24,000 lbs and is licensed at 26,000 lbs. The empty weight of the combination is between 13,000 and 14,000 lbs. So I am legally licensed for 41,000 lbs on the combination but probably could not legally scale more than 38,000 lbs because of tire ratings on the dual tandems on the trailer. And that means that I can load 24,000 lbs of corn or beans in that trailer and that is about 428 bushels of corn.

But all of this does not mean that you could not get a ticket for this load if you met up with a sour DOT officer who went by the GVWR on the pickup that the pickup manufacturers lower for liability reasons. Most DOT guys will just check tire ratings and compare those to actual load.

On a semi tractor/trailer you have the additional problem of meeting the bridge formulas and so they have to measure axle spacings. But on a pickup combination it is not possible to exceed the bridge weight limits.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Thank You Sponsors!