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Questions on circle mill

Started by logloper, April 29, 2010, 09:56:20 PM

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logloper

 Howdy All
                I finally put my old Bellsaw together. I hooked it up to my tractor(an old Massey 30, about 25 horse) just to see if all worked. Way underpowered, but all seemed to work correctly. Now I need a power source (bigger tractor or stationary power unit). I sent my blade to have it hammered and sharpened, figured it will be easier learning if I know the blade is correct. Haveing it hammered 550 - 600 RPM . Now for the questions. Is that RPM figured at the teethe on the blade, or at the shaft the blade rides on? Also, whats an easy way to figure the RPM, wherever it is? For example: If I hook up a bigger tractor(lets say a 80 horse diesel) will I set the tach on the tractor at 575 (basicaly an idle) and cut away? Would that RPM on the tractor translate over to the saw blade? I plan on cutting cants to be resawed on my bandsaw. Thanks in advance for any help. I will have many more questions I'm sure.

js2743

575 rpm on your tractor is the engine rpm not the PTO rpm. on you rpm gauge it should show where 540 pto rpm is it should be around 2000 engine rpm.   

HOOF-ER

Most tractors have 540 rpm or possibly 1000 rpm  power take-off speeds. If your shaft is direct drive or 1:1 gearbox then the 540 rpm power take off would be the blade rpm.
Now correct me if I am wrong . ... The shaft of the blade and the teeth of the blade will be the same rpm. The larger the blade the more ft/sec it will cover.
Home built swing mill, 27hp Kawasaki

aksawyer

The RPM is measured at the shaft.At the tooth is what is refered to as rim speed totally tied together but not the same.Aksawyer

captain_crunch

How big was log ??? I only run 40 hp on mine with 48" blade and been cutting 30" logs



Big logs were scarrie at first but if I can pull an 18"cut no sweat a 30" cut is no problem beings I am still only cutting 18" with blade and remainder with powersaw till I get where I can cut thru.
Guess what I am babbling about is 25 hp should cut a 10" log no problem with sharp teeth and good hammer job
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

bandmiller2

Loper,best to have your saw hammered for 540 rpm to match the tractor PTO speed.Most tractors that have a tach/spedo have a mark for 540 RPM,usally its just below top governed speed.You have some leaway with the hammered speed a little under or over,but you want to maintain the speed in the cut.Your probibly best to stay with tractor power,the bigger the better,because of rotation driving from the back of the mill.If you were to hook up a standard engine where the tractor is now it would turn the wrong way,their are ways around that.Good luck keep us posted.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

logloper

Thank to all for your replies.
             Part of my problem may be that my teeth were in bad shape. Got a bag of new ones in the mail yesterday. My blade should be done tomorrow. Going to a farm auction today to look at tractors. Couple of old Olivers there in the 80 to 90 horse range. See what they go for. I saw when looking at them yesterday that they dont have working tachs. How do you find RPM easily on them? Or on any piece of equipment?  Is their a small tach you can buy? I have a miny tach on my Timberking, but I dont see or understand how to hook them up.

bandmiller2

Loper,those big old olivers would do the deed,if you can find one with poor rubber they go cheaper and are just as good for stationary power.They sell hand held tachs,mechanical and electronic.If you run the tractor up to the governor then back it down a little you'll be close to 540 on the pto.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Sawyerfortyish

I have an RPM guage that you touch the the center of the shaft and read. I use it about once a year to make sure everything is running where it should be. I run a 671 detroit power unit and I have a notch on the throttle linkage that I lock it into so the power unit runs at 1800rpm. With the pulleys I have that gives me 550 on the shaft.
I used to run a 70hp ford with a flatbelt pully when I started almost 30 yrs ago. I had to run the tractor at 1900rpm to get 540 on the pto. The flat belt pulley on the tractor then would turn at 1080rpm. That pulley was a 10" pulley so I had a 20" pulley on the mill and that cut the speed back down to 540rpm

bandmiller2

Loper Stewart Warner makes a dandy hand held tach its like a speedometer with a rubber nub on the shaft.Machinests used to use a rpm counter you used with the minute hand on your watch they can sometimes be found cheap,and were common when shops were run with overhead shafts and flat belts.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

logloper

Thanks Guys
            I picked up an Oliver 1750 today. When I get my blade back I'll let you all know how it saws. Tractor was heavy hauling it home.

fishpharmer

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Tripp

Universal tachometers from an auto supply store are easily wired to an engine with a distributor. One wire to a 12 volt supply one to the distributor and possibly a ground wire. After connecting, the tach will have a switch to select the number of cylinders your engine has. Make the selection and you are in business.

I mounted my tach in the sawyers area so I could tell what the motor is doing at all times. It has been really helpful. I also have a hand held mechanical tach that I can read the shaft rpm on the saw. That way I was able to corrolate engine rpm to saw rpm.

I'm not sure how to add a tach to a deisel?

Tripp

logloper

I got the gas model. The diesel was a 1850 and went for a little more money than I had to spend. Being 80 horse, the gas should still get the job done.

bandmiller2

Loper you should be all set with ollie, would be good form to have a kill switch and if practical a way to dissengauge the PTO from the sawyers box.You have good hydraulics if you decide to have help around the mill.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: logloper on May 02, 2010, 12:08:09 AM
Being 80 horse, the gas should still get the job done.

It'll just burn lots more fuel than its diesel counterpart.

Joe Lallande

I use an Oliver Super 88 stationary power plant to power my mill. After converting the old flat belt to V belts and pullies, I bought a photo tack for under $50 to check the RPM  on the engine and at the blade. Very simple to operate. Stick a small piece of the reflective tape on the pulley or blade, aim the meter at the mark to read the rpm. Good luck with the Oliver.

logloper

I finally got the new tractor hooked up and ran the mill today. It sawed really good for about 2 hours. Two of us sawed about 600 BDFT (in cants). Much faster than we have sawed on my B-20. Than my excitement ended. I changed from 10' logs to 12' logs and my carriage wont advance. Like its in a bind. Then my main drive belt started slipping. Kind of burnt it up. Went this afternoon and got some new ones. The set screws on my drive mechanism are stripped so I cant adjust everything just right. Guess I will have to figure that out. I will say, I put a log to the mill at full speed and didnt bog the motor at all. Pretty much buried the blade. I guess the Oliver will handle the job. Had my new teeth from Missoula Saw in just a few days, they made all the difference. Now I need a way to sharpen them. Ideas?

captain_crunch

Check set work to blade all 3 knees need to be the same and Bellsaws weak piont is setwork  design. Next what is clearance on saw guides ?? need about cigerette paper clearange betweenthem and blade. Something Changed other than log size me thinks
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Ron Wenrich

Does the carriage advance when its empty?  Can you take a log the full length of the mill with the log away from your saw?  If its only when you have a log on, then there's something rubbing the log and causing it not to move.  It could be your board splitter. 

If its binding there, then you have a problem that the carriage is moving into the splitter, which means your track is out of line. 

How to sharpen teeth?  I use a 10" mill bastard and a grinder.  The grinder is better for guys starting out as it will keep a consistent angle on your teeth.  Learning to properly sharpen a saw is a lifetime learning experience. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

bandmiller2

Loper,glad your new tractor is working out,power is good.Belsaw is a simple machine with everything out in the open.The wire cable that pulls the carriage can be problematic binding in its pulleys.Follow the power from the arbor where things stop moving, thats likely your problem. Is the belt from the arbor to the feed works slipping?Has anything in the feed spun out on its shaft?Let us know what you find. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

apm

When you replace the vee belt from the mandrel to the feedworks pulley, use one of the segmented vee belts (link belts) that way you can replace it without removing the mandrel. I've used one of them for years, easy to adjust and pull just as well. Also, can be repaired, if belt stalls and runs in one place for a minute with a regular vee belt, it's toast. With the link belt you'll just have to replace a couple of the links.

Greg
Timberking 1600 now

Peder McElroy

I also use a link belt for my feed on a Belsaw 24, works great and easy to change if needed. They seam to last a long time.

bandmiller2

As Greg and Peder say those link "V" belts are handy and have good traction too.If you want to use conventional belt when your installing one put anouther one over the arbor and wire tie it out of the way,a spare sitting on ready. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

logloper

Thanks for all the replies and help. It amazes me to type a question into here and get so much info back. I can run the log through with the setworks and log recede back on the carriage. It must be touching the splitter. I thought it would just power the log on through. Obviously wrong, have a lot to learn. Please elaborate on the link belts. Does anyone have a part #?  Where do you pick them up? It's raining here so I wont mess with the mill until the weather clears. I'll let you all know what I find.

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