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Cat d13000 power for my new circle mill

Started by RockyMountainSawyer, April 22, 2010, 09:10:40 PM

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RockyMountainSawyer

Just wondering on some specs on my new mill. My brother in law and I are triing to peice things together here and are at somewhat of a stand still. We picked up a cat d13000 for power and need to know the rpm range so we can order the pullies, belts, and have the saw hammered accordingly. is anyone here familiar or at least be able to point me in the right direction? :-\
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

ibbob

I'm thinkin the governed speed is listed on the data plate.  1000 - 1200 rpm most likely.  Might want to poke around over at the Antique Caterpillar Machinery Owners Club http://acmocbb.org/ACMOC_BB/
Bob

Joe Lallande

When I brought flat belt drive my Belsaw M-14 home two years ago, it came with an Oilver Super 88 diesel engine with no tach.  I downloaded a copy of the Stanford Lunstrum saw mill book and went to work converting to flat belt drive to V belts and pullies.  The book has all the information you need on pulley and belt requirements. Also he has an very simple math formula to figure out your pulley size and speed. To check my math I bought an inexpensive photo tach to dial in my engine for the blade rpm I needed. The Oliver engine governor is at 1700 rpm, I run the engine at 1450 rpm for an end result of 550 rpm at my 40 inch blade. I was able to find most of my pullies at our local family owned saw mill in town. Beware of made in China pullies from surplus centers. They only have two bolts holding the split hub adapter and are difficult to align when installing. Good luck.

bandmiller2

Rocky MA,you couldn't have found a better mill diesel,its about 128 hp @just under 1000 rpm's It will just loaf along all day at nothing above an idle.To figure pulley size I would use engine speed of 900 rpm and go with "V" belts C or D section 5 or6 of them you have alot of torque to deliver.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ladylake

Quote from: bandmiller2 on April 23, 2010, 07:44:46 AM
Rocky MA,you couldn't have found a better mill diesel,its about 128 hp @just under 1000 rpm's It will just loaf along all day at nothing above an idle.To figure pulley size I would use engine speed of 900 rpm and go with "V" belts C or D section 5 or6 of them you have alot of torque to deliver.Frank C.



Frank   That diesel sounds a lot like me, just loafing along just above idle.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Bro. Noble

RMS,

We have a D13000 here with the drive pullies on it.  If it would be of any help,  I can measure them,  but the mandrel and driven pullies are in Michigan.  Maybe Corley 5 would measure them.

How much do you figger that engine weighs and how did you load and unload it?  Corley and I would like to know ;)
milking and logging and sawing and milking

RockyMountainSawyer

thanks for all the info guys i new i came to the right place with this. we loaded it on my gooseneck trailer with a 6000# hyster, it has to wiegh somewhere between 5 and 6k. We are going to go rent a gradall to unload it and position it. The guy that i bought it from said that it governed at 950 rpm, b ut he also said that his blades were hammered to 900rpm. his math was not sound because the pulley on his d13000 was 16.5'' diameter and the pulley on the mandrel was 25''. If i did the math right then his blade should have been hammered to about 600rpm or so. so either he was off on the engine rpm or the blade, what i'm getting at is i don't want to order my pulleys from six states away on an "i think so". so thanks bandmiller ;D, the local cat dealer didn't even know. :D
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

bandmiller2

Rocky,seeing as you have the flat pulleys all set up would be folly not to use them.You are probibly correct on the 600 rpm hammered speed the math works out to a little over 600 figuring some loss when in the log, your right on.My first mill had a cat d 318 not as massive as yours but I had nothing to lift it, made wood skids and dragged it to the mill with a tractor.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

RockyMountainSawyer

Bandmiller,

      Didn't mean to confuse.... the guy i bought the engine from is running a seperate d 13000 on his corley, this one was his spare. I got my mill elswhere, not a corley. i will try to upload some pics, they should help ;D
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

bandmiller2

Rocky,you didn't say the diameter of your saw,probibly 600rpm would be a good speed to have it hammered for.If you don't have belts and pulleys "V" would be the best.On a new mill/new sawyer its good form to start with a newly hammered saw with at least new bits that eliminates alot of problems.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

RockyMountainSawyer

ok i have posted pics before. how do i drag photos from my gallery to here >:(
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

RockyMountainSawyer

I agree, i have a 50 inch 44tooth hoe blade 3 pattern 8 gauge. I am going to send it to Missoulla Saw in Montana, they are the closest saw doc that dosen't speak out of both sides of their mouth. Rod is who i talked to and everything we have discussed has referenced almost perfect with the circle saw book i downloaded "circular sawmills and there efficient opperation"
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

RockyMountainSawyer

Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

RockyMountainSawyer

Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

RockyMountainSawyer

Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

RockyMountainSawyer

Sorry for all the random posts, i'll figure it out


I cant figure out how to free the head blocks and setworks up?
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

RockyMountainSawyer







sorry for the poor pics, does anyone know what kind of mill this is? We are triing to get these peices freed up, and we don't want to break anything ::)
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

bandmiller2

Rocky,the best way to free up those headblocks would be to take them apart and clean them up.If you don't want to dissassemble loosen the bolts and tap with a soft hammer and copius amounts of weasel pith.If the pieces were smaller muriatic acid desolves rust and won't hurt steel and cast.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

RockyMountainSawyer

Thanks Bandmiller,

   I totally forgot about muriatic ::)    Also is that cat engine max rpm 900 or is that just the range ideal for a sawmill????   
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

barbender

Those aren't poor pics, don't be sorry. That is looking like a nice set up.
Too many irons in the fire

bandmiller2

Rocky,I think its governed speed is around 950 but when your down around that speed give or take a little dosen't matter much.Probibly 900 would be a good place to figure from.Is your pony motor horizontal cylinders or verticle,or do you have electric starter.??Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Norm

I agree, good pictures and some beautiful country in the background.

Can't you just see those horses milling around thinking "boys were up against some big competition there".

RockyMountainSawyer

morning,

    The pony motor i think vertical cylinders, with a crank start. If i had my way the mill would be truely horse powered, i'm really into the old fashion stuff. But my better half seems to think that would be to slow, and far more expensive.

Bandmiller,

  I'll order my pulley then on monday figuring for 900 on the cat and 600 on the mandrel, thanks again. Hopefully I can get all this put together in the next two weeks! ;)
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

stonebroke

Looks like a job for Rust Reaper

Stonebroke

KyTreeFarmer

bandmiller2

Weasel Pith??

I like Gibbs brand penetrant for the rust.

KTF
Woodmizer LT15G
Belsaw from Sears & Roebucks
8N Ford
87 Kubota 2550 W/FEL

RockyMountainSawyer

it was a good day today! I got the everything on the carriage up and working 8) what kind of boardfootage can a guy get out of this mill?
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

bandmiller2

KTF,I didn't write "pith" quess it was cleaned up a little it rymes with wiss.Rocky,walk before you run get your techneque[sp] down then go for production.That old mill, with that diesel, will work you right down to parade rest.You'll need at least one helper to get production and proper placement of tools and waste.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Dave Shepard

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

RockyMountainSawyer

Your right Bandmiller, i'm not looking to get in a hurry and get hurt. I just wanting to make sure I made the right decision in the equiptment i've got here. Unluckily enough this all i have right now to make a living. I have a couple thousand acres of cottonwood trees to log and mill, and i already have a buyer. Before with the little wood mizer i cut for this guy but just couldn't cut enough to make it, so i did some trading up for the circle mill. I have two employees, a case tractor with a loader, and I'm rearing to go. I don't listen when poeple say it can't be done, because i now it is happening. If  you haven't already quessed we are cutting cants for a pallet manufacturer. And are only getting paid $140 per thousand. Not much so eventually i would like to see between 5 and 10k bdft  a day leave my yard. Did i pick the right mill to start. By the way i don't owe anything on my equipment. If there is a better market, i haven't found it. Also i have the two employees still from my log and timber construction bussiness which has nearly dried up out here.
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

captain_crunch

Not sure how you are gonna get that much production without more help Sawing 5000 feet even in cants takes lots to make it happen. Even with right logs I an lucky to saw over 1500 ft per day But I am also a one man band opperation and this is 2x and 1 X material I produce
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

RockyMountainSawyer

Most of the logs i will be milling are averaging 12-16" diameter nice and staight no taper in a 14' peice. For this particular buyer waned edges are no big deal. So a 12" log  will slab down to an 8"x8" timber sliced in half gives me 2 3.5"x8" cants, each 14' foot cant yeilds 32 bdft. My blade is a 50" 44 tooth hammered to 600 rpms, with that the optimal feed rate should be 1/8" advance per tooth each rovolution of the blade times 44 teeth at 600 rpm's is 275' per minute devided by 60 seconds is 4.5' per second. 1/16" advance per tooth would be more realistic bringing me back to 2' per second on a 14' log is 7 seconds per pass, 5 passes per average log to produce 60 bdft. From what i understand the log is in the blade 20 percent of the time in an efficiant operation, so 7 seconds per pass times 5 passes at 20 percent of the time is 3 minutes per log on the mill. So if i can get 20 logs on and off the mill in an hour that is 1280 bdft an hour. I suspect that i could maybe go half that speed with three guys. That is 6400 bdft in a 10 hour day. So at $140 a thousand I have $896 bucks to pay bills for the day. Someone please correct my math, But it calculates out right to me. What am I forgeting?
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

bandmiller2

Rocky,someone else will have to chime in on the economics,I've never milled as my sole income.That mill with three guys will put out.Cutting pallet stock is tough,alot of guys do it as a fill in between better paying jobs.Cut pallet stock but look for something better paying to deversify a little.Good luck and keep us posted.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

RockyMountainSawyer

Thanks Bandmiller,

    I am working several other markets, i live in a farming community with only one other sawmill. Their prices are extremely inflated and we have needed another mill in the area for a long time. So for me the pallet stuff is just to pay the bills until i get my name out there. I'm very confident that i'll get alot of business from the local's, it will just take time.  I also have a friend that is a landscaper who wants to try and market timberframe greenhouses and chicken coops. The circle sawn timbers are very coveted around here because of their rustic appeal.  The other sawmill is a baker, the owner says that poeple find his stuff to be too perfect :D so he has to run stuff through a circular resaw to get it sold. I think that is why it cost so much, because he has to process it twice.
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

Dave Shepard

That is a very interesting perspective. I've had requests for band sawn timbers as they replicate sash sawn lumber closer than the circular mills. I wonder if there was ever any sash sawn lumber in Idaho, or if circular and band mills were the norm when that part of the country was settled?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

beenthere

Yes they did. Was in a mill in Lewiston, ID in summer of '62 that had sash gangs for processing large cants. Logs being sawn on a large band mill were about 6-7' in diameter.
Also was in a large mill in or near Boise, ID that same summer with a sash gang.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ladylake

$140 a thousand,  how much are the logs costing?   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Usally theirs more money cutting firewood than pallet wood.Years ago there was a guy in the neighborhood repairing pallets for a business,he was crying couldn't get the size oak he needed,thought I'd hit paydirt till he told me what he'd pay.I forget the amount now but it was half what I'd get for firewood.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

RockyMountainSawyer

I am getting paid to remove the trees, so instead of burning them i am going to cut it into cants. Noone around here wants cottonwood for firewood.
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

bandmiller2

Rocky,if your getting paid to cut them thats a whole nuther story,you can most likely turn a buck.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

RockyMountainSawyer

I finished my pallet cant job. It turned out real well. Now i wonder if there is any money in making this operation mobile. I know that is usually a job for woodmizers, but we have moved the mill three times now and it only takes about 3 hours to set up. Any pros and cons on a mobile circle mill.
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

NWwoodsman

I run a Mobil Circular saw, and it does what most Bandmills can't. Cut fast straight and big logs. I too have a longer set-up than most portables, but it doesn't keep me from many jobs just the real small ones. Good luck will your mill.
Jason

RockyMountainSawyer

Thanx Jason,
What type of setup do you have, is it all one peice or do you have to make several trips. What do you cut mostly 1 and 2x's or bigger? What made you decide to go with a circle mill?
Rocky
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

Meadows Miller

Gday

And welcome to the Forum Rocky  ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) Its Great to See another Young Bloke With a Circ Who's not Afraid of alittle Hard Work Mate  ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)

Nice looking Mill and Motor Mate  ;) ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)

Afew thousand acres thats alot of Bloody Timber  :o :) it'll make for a Great start to your business Mate  ;) :D :D ;D 8) 8)

Im happy the pallet cant job went well for you  ;D 8) did you still charge $140 per thousand and i take it it was pickup at your site ? overhere finished pallet boards 4x1" & 6x1" go for about $455 usd  per thousand ex mill  there is no real cant market here though I wish there was as its all cut to size  ;) what volume did you endup supplying and will he be ongoing as i myself would push for about the $220  per thousand myself if i was in your positon Mate  ;)

Going mobile would reqire you to set a min bft volume say 5 to 10000 bft for a job and charge say atleast $250 per 1000bft to do it  ;) or just set the mill up at your place once every few weeks and shedual a time and people drop their logs at your place and you just keep seperate piles with their initals panted on te end of their logs untill you do a run like i do Mate  ;)

With your heavy trash (waste) pile it up on 6 to 10" dia logs to keep it of the ground and when winter comes im pretty sure you could make extra money out of it by undercutting everyone else  ;) even though its not a desirable wood to burn  ;) but its like the old saying If the Price is Rite Mate  ;) :D ;D ;D 8) 8)

Why do i like Cicular mills over Bands Well ive used everything from a Csm upto a a Million dollar Bandmill Since i started sawing at 13yo even owned my own band mill And Nothing Beats Em  ;) :D ;D ;D esp in small to med sawmill operations  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8)  dont get me wrong Bands have their place and i have always liked them in theory but not practice as they take a fair amount of skill to run effectivly in a production setting  ;)

Take the Lucas's for exaple put two blokes on one up against two blokes on a new band in the same price range sawing say structural timber 4x1 1/2 up and you would wipe the floor with them in the same logs more so when you hit stuff 24" and up in dia   ;) :D :D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8)


Regards Chris




4TH Generation Timbergetter

NWwoodsman

Hi Rocky M.

I run a Mobil Dimension circular Mill powered by a 55hp Aircooled VW motor. Mine is a 1966 which my father brought back in 1970. They are still in operation in troutdale Oregon, I can call up and get any parts I need the next day. It brakes down into sections 10 feet or smaller, and light enough for two men to carry into the bush. It will cut 24 foot long logs and up to 6 foot in dia. They also make a trailer package, I just use a small single axle trailer to carrier it all in, in the past I've even driven it to Montana in a  extended van. I use it because thats what I have, and it's paid for many times over. I do custom cutting so cut list vary by customer, I can cut a 12x4 in one cut as my max. I have 3 blades 1 main a 24 inch and two edgers at 9 inch.
Hope this helps, Love Idaho with all it's Hot Springs.
Jason

RockyMountainSawyer

Thanks guys,
the cottonwood job like i said went real well. It was just a thinning project and we ended up cutting just under 225000 bdft in 4x4 and 6x6 cants. the pallet guy came and picked it up as we cut it. He wants me to do more but it is really tough to get timber. I really enjoy runing the circle mill probably because it is so much easier to produce cants quickly. I'll have to get some pics of how it is set up. We just moved it to another site where a logger is suposed to supply us with 30 ton of pine a day, but it has been so wet here that no one can get into the timber to log.
Rocky
Homemade Mobile Circle Mill, case 830 w/loader, 2-ton dodge w/ skyhook, 3/4 ton chevy duramax flatbed, stihl 460 magnum, and a brand new beautiful baby girl!

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