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Need help to make a home for some honey bees

Started by Sawyerfortyish, April 16, 2010, 07:08:59 AM

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Sawyerfortyish

The church down the road had some locust trees cut down last fall. The one big tree was hollow and filled with honey bees. I set that section on the top and in the back of my log truck. When I got it to the mill I sat that section of log it's about 6' long off by itself. It was hollow on both ends so I busted a bale of hay open and put half against each end and left it for the winter. Much to my surprise they are alive and well now. So here is my question what do I need to do to get them to move into a hive? I would like to get my own honey. Can anyone tell me about the hives? I'm working on a logging job on a farm that the bank will be forclosing on soon and the farmer has 2 large stacks of bee hives. I counted 25 boxes in the smaller pile and they aren't being used. What are they worth. Should I try to buy them? What other equipment is needed? I know somebody here must know what I'll need and how to do it.

SwampDonkey

I sadly (for them) had to destroy a comb and the bees last fall in the flu. I know no one around here that has honeybees. Got no clue where they came from. My cousin had bees 15 years ago.

Tom knows a bit about bees, but I have limited knowledge. I think to move the hive you need a queen in the new home so the workers have something to justify their existence so to speak.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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Sawyerfortyish

Someone told me just put sugar water in a hive next to the the log and they would move . But knowing nothing about this I figure this is the best place to ask.

Dana

Concerning what the hives are worth.... Check the wax in the frames carefully. Often on empty hives the wax moth will destroy the wax. If they are in there, there will be a cobweb look and the wax will have been destroyed. If they are in good shape, 100.00 would be a good deal. $50.00 would be better.

To get the bees into the hive. To start the new hive, have one box setup with good wax in the frames, The hive of course needs a bottom board. On top of the box you will place a 1 to 2 quart jar that is inverted and is full of sugar water. The lid should have a half dozen TINY pin holes in it for the bees to get at the sugar water. use a couple small scraps of wood to raise the jar above the frames.
The sugar water is made by slowly adding sugar into the water until it wont accept any more. Make sure that the water isn't too warm as when it cools the sugar will come out of the solution.

Next add an empty box above the first box. You can now carefully split the log and add the bees and brood comb into the space the empty box occupies. Make sure that you don't injure the queen. She is the key to keeping the bees in the box.

After that put the lid on and only open once a day to check the sugar water. Dont mess with the bees for a couple weeks so they can become adjusted to their new home. After that, you can see try to locate the queen if she is starting to lay eggs in the frames below you can start removing the empty comb from the log that you placed in the hive. This may take several checks to completely finish.

You should get a book from Dadant called First Lesson's In Beekeeping. It helped me out when I kept bee's.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

HOOF-ER

Ditto on what Dana said. This is usually a pain to try to move an established colony. A lot depends on the temper of the bees. You will have to move all the comb out of the old tree/ or find the queen and get her into the new. Combs that have been extracted work best to entice bees into the new home. I used to use a couple of brood boxes for honey then extract the honey and use the frames for new hives.
I tried this one time , moving a hive out of a house, the outcome was a disaster. Did not get the queen and ticked off bees attacking anything in sight.
Home built swing mill, 27hp Kawasaki

Tom

It' s a common saying amongst bee keepers that "they call us beekeepers, not bee farmers or bee raisers".

Bee's do pretty much what bees want to do.

You can entice a bees to move by moving the queen or cause them to swarm by killing the queen.   I would open the tree and look for the queen and move her to the new hive that I set next to the log.

When the bees had moved, I would move the log a mile or so away from the hive and take the honey out of the log.  I'd eat that.  :D

I used to use Kelly for mail-order and Dadant for visiting.  Dadant's shop was a pretty good trip for me.

http://www.kelleybees.com/PageDefault.aspx

Keeping bees takes a different mindset than most of us have.  You don't make bees do much of anything.  You have to be there when the bees need something or want to do something themselves.

Bee Keeping is continuing education.  Start off by studying any book and talking to any beekeeper you can find.  You will never "end up" until your life is done.  It's a constant schooling.

The boxes on the bottom of a commercial hive are called brood boxes.  They are the ones that have the entry at the bottom for the bees and they are the ones that house the queen.  A "Keeper" will put  Supers on top of the brood boxes and even separate them with an excluder sometimes.  An excluder is a screen that allows worker bees to pass but keeps the queen in the brood box.    The supers are where you get your honey.  The brood box is where the queen lives and where they raise the baby bees.

Once bees make a hive a  home, you don't move them too frequently.  They need time to orient themselves to the environment.  Farm bees are usually kept in one spot.   It make it easier on the Keeper too.

You will be going into the hives to check the queen, eggs, larvae, drone production, wax generation and honey production about once a month, maybe every two weeks. 

You will need a veil and a hat.  you might need gloves.  Most Keepers wear long sleeve shirts, but it isn't necessary.  Rubber bands on the ankles gives you a bit of mental security.

You will need a smoker and a hive tool for breaking frames from the hive.  It looks like a carpenter's paint scraper.  The one without the handle that has a straight blade on one end and a bent blade on the other.

You will need a knife to cut comb from the frames and jars to put the honey into.  You can hand squeeze the comb or just store it, comb, honey and all.

To be more professional, you will need a honey house with equipment.  Things like storage tubs and centifuges. (Keeper call them extractors)

You will need wire, special nails, wax foundation, sealers, cap knife, and all kinds of stuff like that.  Some of it isn't necessary, but, like sawmilling, the more you get into it, the more you want the tools-of-the-trade.

Bee Keeping is fun.  Two hives will produce more than enough honey for a family and friends.

If you decide to make it a business, expect a lot of work.  You are the bees valet, not their herder.  :)




4genlgr

never have done anything with bees  but my two cents is to check with your state beekeepers assoiation might be someone close by that could help you

DaveInVT

One other thing when moving bees into a hive, if you spray them down with sugar water they will not be able to fly and attack you.

I will also repeat that you need to make sure that you get the queen into the new hive, if not the rest of the bees will come back out to find her.

Good luck and have fun, bee keeping has been one of the most enjoyable/ fustrating hobbies that I have ever had.

Tom


zopi

Google for beekeeping associations in your area..or contact some of the larger retailers of bee stuff..they can usually put you in touch with someone close who can help out....

I would not recommend using old hives..if they were diseased at some point it can bite you...so to speak...

also..google beehive plans, there are dozens on the web..and pretty easy to build...
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fishpharmer

Glad to have you Dave.

I have several old used hives I bought years ago in storage.  They were empty when I got them.  Do either one of you know of a surefire way to disinfect them, just to be on the safe side.  Maybe spray with bleach water?
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
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The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

SwampDonkey

Maybe along with a little 20 Mule Team Borax as well to kill any mites and other bugs. Then pressure spray that all out with straight water in a day or so.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Sawyerfortyish

I hadn't thought about diseased hives maybe I should just buy new hives. Been looking at them on ebay and they dont seem like a lot of money. Getting that queen out of that hollow log is a going the be a real trick. How do you split a 2'dia locust log 6' long that has about a 12"hollow spot from end to end without pissin them bees off? I can just see myself with a hammer and wedge makin 1 swing a day and run like h@ll. that aint gonna work. Besides when I was younger I was highly allergic to bee stings so im playing with fire here now as I'm older I don't have reactions to stings like I did 25yrs ago. I think I'm going to have to get help to do this. I have a friend that is a new member of the local beekeepers asso but she's not sure what to do either. I have a large smoker but what do you put in it to smoke?Also I know the queen is usally bigger than worker bees but I'll never tell them apart. I look every year at the beekeepers booth at the local fair through glass and have a hard time telling the queen apart.I don't think these wild bees are going to let me pick through them to try to identify there queen.

SwampDonkey

I know that I wouldn't be doing it. No sirree, I'd send Tom in feet first. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Sawyerfortyish


SwampDonkey

catfish, cornbread, biscuits, gravy........maybe a great big thick steak BBQ'ed with hickory, corn on the cob with butter......might be missing something. ;D ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Sawyerfortyish


fishpharmer

You might could cover the open ends at night when they are all in the log.  Then the next day saw down as far as you dare before trying to split with wedges.  Wear running shoes at all times :D :D

Or maybe you could cover one open end of the log in a fairly permanent manner, like silicone and nail a screen or maybe a board on end.  Then on the other end prepare a standard wooden hive (brood box) with a hole cut out of the back the same size as hole in log.  Then one night, silicone the perimeter and nail the brood box with hole end aligned with hole in log.   Install your wax frames and maybe put a feeder on the new box.  This way the bees will have to come and go thru the new brood box and hopefully will move on into the box.   

Maybe you could even seal one end and then cut a rectangular hole in the top of the log and stack some supers on top? ::)

Now I have no idea if this will work at all, its been a long day and I just made it all up. ;D

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Don K

James, From what I have read concerning old hives, the worst thing disease wise would be American Foul Brood (AFB). I've read that one way and seems to be the best way to "clean" hives is lightly scorch the inside with a propane torch.

I am soon to become a beekeeper. It sounds like quite the venture.

Don
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Sawyerfortyish

I wonder if sealing one end of the log then making them go in and out through the brood box will work?

Dana

The Veroa Mite has really hurt the beekeeping industry here in Michigan. The bees can usually handle them, until winter. Heavy losses occure then. Most commercial beekeepers  take their bees south for the winter.

As to getting the bees out of the log. There is a one way bee gate that the suppliers sell. Seal up the log and install it with the end leading into your hive. The queen most likely won't follow. So, you will need to purchase a queen from the supplier. Which is a good idea anyway as the queen offspring is where the temperment of the hive comes from.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

DaveInVT

As far as old hives goes, it has always been recomended to me to burn the inside of the hive bodies and buy new frames and foundation. I make my own hives and frames. Plans are available from http://www.beesource.com They also have a forums section that I would ask about how to transfer the bees to a new hive. I am sure that you will get plenty of advice as you do here. 

Tom

I used a 50 gal drum full of water, built a fire beneath it, and boiled my hives.

HOOF-ER

The idea of setting a brood box on the log is a good one. Bees will go up and use the new space. If you use a trap make sure that they are using the new brood first. The queen may move up and start using. You would just have to keep checking for eggs and brood. All this could be done at you leisure . If there is brood in the new box just put an queen excluder under the new box. If there continues to be eggs in the new box the queen has to be in it. When the new brood is full you could get rid of the log.  Separate it away from the hive and they will clean it out.
Home built swing mill, 27hp Kawasaki

Sawyerfortyish

The log is on it's side and the bees arn't using the hollow ends that the hay bale is against they are landing about 18" from one end crawling under the log and disappearing so there must be an entry hole there. I have contacted a beekeeper that has many hives and done it for several years and he said he would gladly help me get the queen out of the log but I have to get a hive box. He told me what to get so I ordered it all new so I don't have to deal with any diseases right now.

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