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Best band blades

Started by icolquhoun, March 11, 2010, 01:25:02 PM

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icolquhoun

I did a lot of searching and haven't gotten very far
Yes, I know, this will be as opinionated as ford vs chevy, stihl vs husky, or legs vs breasts ( ......i meant chicken ;).....maybe ) but I'm hoping to get a little more substantiated feedback than that.
I am a new sawyer and have only ever used the norwood blades and liked them, but for the price, all the blades from cooks as well as the blades from WM look very appealing to me.  I will NOT be sharpening my own blades, so having the blades sharpened by cooks or WM  is very appealing as well, especially for the cost.
What type of blades do you run, and what are the pros/cons to them?  Which blades has everyone used, liked/disliked, and why?




Magicman

I've only used WM blades, except for a free one from Timberwolf.  As you stated, I imagine that everyone has their favorite for their own reasons.

If any manufacturer/supplier was putting out "bad" blades, they would not be in business very long. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White


I run Wood-Mizer .045 10° 158".

It's just an all-around good blade!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

vadimo

I have good result with bimetal blades from HSS steel. They are stronger and have more straight cut, not so fast dull. Mark is your choice, price is higher than classic.

Tom

Woodmizer has been a positive influence on thin kerf band saw bands, from the standardization of lengths to the variations of pitch.  Their attention to detail in the setting and sharpening of bands has taught and helped people sharpening for themselves and also developed the customer trust that led to Wood Mizer's own band manufacturing company and Resharp services.

You would have to go a long way to find anyone more dedicated.

Cooksaw has shown no intimidations using other's knowledge as well as their own refinements to carry an inventory of saw bands that will get the job done, even to the point of creating their own brand.  Their knowledge of sawing has them standing behind two major brands, Simond's Red Streak and Lenox, with the most popular Lenox band being the Woodmaster C. 

One of the critical points of choosing a band, believe it or not, is transportation.  The cost of shipping these bands has become a major part of the decision making as to which distributor, or manufacturer you use.

These two are touted, not just because they are sponsors, but because they have proven their loyalty to the Band saw mill industry.

You will notice that there are other band-miill sponsors to the left that carry bands as well.  They are distributors of proven bands and should not be ignored.  This is where the pricing of shipping comes in when choosing a supplier.

Since most companies are distributing, rather than making bands, handling is a concern.  The sharp tips of the tooth must arrive at your mill undamaged.  How the supplier handles the bulk stock and packages the sized bands is what will mostly determine your success with the band.

Your picking the correct thickness of band to match the horsepower and wheel diameter of your mill is another point that you must study.  Not sharpening yourself, you must pick something that will give you long durations of use, retain the edge, but not suffer from premature work hardening.  A broken band is pretty much a used-up band.

Your picking the proper pitch is important also.  Three quarters of an inch was standard until Wood Mizer tried One inch and had difficulty making it work.  They settled on Seven eighths of an inch to give the small engines a chance to saw instead of fighting for horsepower.  It also carried more sawdust out of the gullet and allowed them to develop a market for a single sharpening cam for their sharpener.   Standardization has been a welcome by-product for most sawyers.

With bigger mills being built and more horsepower being applied, you have seen the sizes of bands increase.  But don't ignore the fact that a lot of effort went into matching the smaller bands to the smaller mills, years before the bigger mills hit the market.

As these Companies found that standardization helped them in the development of their mills, so will you find that it will help in the development of your production.  Settling on a band, or bands, that match the species, and condition, of wood you saw will end up making you more money than trying to find the perfect design of band for each log you put on the mill.

It's pretty much been determined that the standard for these small mills is 1 1/4" wide, .042" thick, 7/8" pitch, 10° hook and 158" length.

Basically, the smaller the mill and the smaller the horsepower, the thinner the band.  There is still a use for .035" thick stock, even though most use .042" (.045") and some, .055".

Another good rule of thumb is that the wider the pitch, the more course the cut, but also the fewer horses it takes to drive it.

Set is generally 1/2 of the band thickness to each side.  That produces a kerf twice the width of the band thickness and is the reason that the standard for a .042" band is .021".

Standard hook is 10° and it works in most all cases.

From these standards, you must decide on the best design for you.  Using another rule of thumb, The softer the wood, the more aggressive the tooth.  This little saying will help you decide what is best in Frozen wood, Hard woods (like Hickory), or Soft woods (like cedar or white pine).  Reading the forum will help you find other considerations, like grain, knots, dryness, etc. that may warrant a change of band configuration.

Ultimately, it does almost boil down to a Chevy vs. Ford argument, but every penny you save, and every penny you are able to make is the ultimate deciding factor in your bottom line.   So, as in sawmills, your choice should be a supplier that will stand behind you and give you good information and the correct band.  When you find that supplier, stick with him.  It is good for your business as well as his.

Mo

Tom, very well thought out, and a lot of good information right there!  8)
He is correct, there is a lot that goes into band blades. I know that if you take the time to read, and ask the questions..... you'll get the answers here. Also calling a supplier with any questions is a option too.
Happy Sawing....

Mo

icolquhoun

Tom,
Very well stated!
I would agree that if I am sending blades back and forth across the country many times for sharpening that shipping and handling becomes almost as important as the blades themselves.
I will take everything into consideration and make my decision from there
Thanks for the replies :)

woodmills1

welcome Icol

I use woodmizer bands  10 degree .045 on my first LT 40 and now 7 degree .055 on my LT 70  I love them and I sharpen my own

BTW I used to live two places near you, right off 206 in the big apartment complex and in a rented house on schooleys mountain up above hackettstwon off route 46, worked for Bates MFG in hackettstown and belonged to Pax Amicus

even used to run the sound for Blue Sparks From Hell, was years ago
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

campy

I have used mostly Cookssaw blades these last four years.
They seem to be the least costly at about $18 per band.
I also tried some free WM blades.

There seems to be NO DIFFERENCE at all regarding the blade type that I have used.
I have tried different thicknesses, pitch and hook and still no perceptible difference.

Cookssaw makes the supersharp that they push HARD.
I have not noticed any improvement.

Cookssaw does my sharpening.

It would be nice if there was a consensus regarding the best blade for the money.
Perhaps this is just very old technology and all the players are using the latest technology?

Currently, I am using some Cookssaw blades that were on clearance and they work the same.

same, same, same, same.......

I also hit a lot of nails.  When this happens I dispose of the blade.  It seems pointless to send it out for a sharpening after a metal strike.  Is this advisable?

My metal detector broke.   Does anyone recommend a particular type of metal detector that they like?

I own 6 chainsaws.  The three Husky's are dead.  The cylindars are ruined.  The three Stihls are running strong.  I purchased the Stihls before the Husqavarna's.  The Huskys have been to the shop to have a mid life resuscitation.

Thanks



ladylake

I run Simonds Red Streak, they work good for me. I tried some Woodmizer, Lenox, Cooks and Munks. They all worked OK except for the Lenox which wouldn't saw as straigh in tough wood. Hook angle makes a lot of difference 10* in easy wood 4* in tough wood.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Campy,hitting metal is not the kiss of death for a band they can usally be saved.The most common tramp is 8 or 16 D common nails if hit at right angle minimal damage.If the band hits the nail parallel it will usally damage the set on alot of teeth still salvagable.If a nail is struck stop and check the teeth you will usally find a little curl of metal stuck on the face of the tooth,take your pocket knife and flip it off.All the major bands are good and will give good service some are just better suited to a particular mill.Myself if given a choise would pick Timberwolf.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Magicman

Quote from: campy on March 11, 2010, 07:40:34 PMWhen this happens I dispose of the blade.  It seems pointless to send it out for a sharpening after a metal strike.  Is this advisable?

I do not agree.  I send all bands back to WM, no matter what.  Most will resharpen.  If they don't, I get a new band back....at a discount price.  That way my "stash" of bands stays the same. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Tom

I don't think there is a 'best band for the money".  The bands depend so much on your mode of sawing and what you are sawing that you really have to take a recommendation with a grain of salt.  What works for one fellow might not work for another.  That's not to say that there are bands out there that are too expensive, or bands that won't perform, but those that you will hear about here have been tested by the operators and liked enough that they will mention them.

You test a band to see if it performs in the arena in which you run it.   You might drive a band harder than another person, or not as hard.  You might saw drier logs, or softer logs, or larger logs, or smaller logs than the fellow who recommended a band and find that his recommendation didn't work.  Within reason, you aren't going to find any "trash" bands mentioned here. Some don't get tested good because the distributer/customer relation wasn't good.  Some might be used over others because the distributor/customer relation is good.  Even after you find a band that works on your mill and surpasses your expectations, reality says that it still might not work as good on your neighbor's mill.

In the end, you are going to have to make the decision yourself.  :)

wwsjr

I agree with Magicman, I sent all blades back to Resharp. With the program WM has, I get a replacement at a discount price for all damaged, too thin, etc blades. This spreads out my cost by buying one or two blades at a time as opposed to a box when I run low. I have about 90 blades on hand or in shipment at all times. WM also have a means to recycle that is not readily avaliable to me.  The shipping cost continues to increase, however I still cannot justify in my mind to but a sharpner/setter.
Retired US Army, Full Time Sawyer since 2001. 2013 LT40HD Super with 25HP 3 Phase, Command Control with Accuset2. ED26 WM Edger, Ford 3930 w/FEL, Prentice Log Loader. Stihl 311, 170 & Logrite Canthooks. WM Million BF Club Member.

D Hagens

Here's a question, let's say WM makes the best blades as in set and kerf and strength and there's a place down the road that makes blades. Can the place down the road duplicate a WM blade or is this a WM design that can't be copied?
I ask as it would seem to me that having a blade supplier that's at hand would be better then having blades shipped to me.


Magicman

I'm not qualified or knowledgeable about patents which I'm sure covers many actual blade designs.  Many suppliers of blades buy rolls of "name brand" high quality band stock and welds them to your specified length.  Your local supplier may also be set up to resharpen those blades.

Under those circumstances, you could save some buck$ by buying locally and eliminating shipping cost.

You used WM as an example.  Just as information, WM only resharpens WM blades.

I realize that I went a bit beyond your question, but when considering blades, you need to look at all options.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

D Hagens


Thanks Magicman, still confused a bit about WM only sharpening bands. Up top there Tom states that they make them to.
Do all Manufactures pretty much have have the same rolls and just have different sets or would a 10 deg band be the same 10 deg band as the next guy.
I'm reading here and it seems to be more of a preference from mill to mill and from what people are cutting.

customsawyer

It will vary from mill to mill and operator to operator. If you have a Baker mill but get blades for it from WoodMizer than WM will resharpen that blade but if you have a WM mill and buy a blade from cooks than WM will not resharpen that blade.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

P.A. RESHARP

Good evening Hagens, The reason woodmizer only likes to sharpen woodmizer bands, is because our grinders use cbn grinding wheels, and the wheels are the exact same shape as the profile of a woodmizer blade. If we are sharpening 10* blades and are switching to 9*, we have to get a 9* wheel and put on the grinder. If you were to put a differant brand blade on, the wheel would not fit the gullet right, and it is really hard on the wheels. One of the other reasons is that we warranty our sharpening, and it would be hard to give a warranty on someone elses blade. Hope this helped

Magicman

DH,  This is sorta like cars and trucks and chocolate and vanilla.  Everyone has their favorite.  Favorite mill, blade, lube, sharpening method.  Whatever I have had good results with in the past, I tend to stick with it.

I don't really know who actually makes bands, or who just buys rolls and welds them to suit the customer.  I do know that each WM band has a serial number stamped on it.  Others might also.  Some folks keep up with and record each band's sharpening.  WM might keep a record also?  I don't know.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

P.A. RESHARP

I have allready seen blades, that the blade was engraved on there how many times sharpened, how many board feet the blade cut before it got dull, and the 10 blades in the box were numbered 1-10

D Hagens

Quote from: P.A. RESHARP on March 14, 2010, 08:51:56 PM
Good evening Hagens, The reason woodmizer only likes to sharpen woodmizer bands, is because our grinders use cbn grinding wheels, and the wheels are the exact same shape as the profile of a woodmizer blade. If we are sharpening 10* blades and are switching to 9*, we have to get a 9* wheel and put on the grinder. If you were to put a differant brand blade on, the wheel would not fit the gullet right, and it is really hard on the wheels. One of the other reasons is that we warranty our sharpening, and it would be hard to give a warranty on someone elses blade. Hope this helped

Yes that helps! Thanks! :)

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