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measurement question

Started by treefarmer87, March 04, 2010, 07:39:29 PM

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treefarmer87

i usually only haul poplar,the mill i haul to will take 8'6, 9', 10'6, 12'6, 14', 16' and 18'. what they pay by how many feet you bring in. i usually take 10'6 or 12' and a few 8'6s. the price for veneer is $300 per 1000BF, $115 for # 2 and $110 for #1. what do you guys  would be the best length to cut to get the most logs and money?( i hope the questions i ask you guys arent stupid)thanks
matt
1994 Ford L9000
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1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
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WDH

I don't know the answer to your question.  Also, there are no stupid questions unless you already know the answer.

If the logs are being scaled on the small end, then shorter logs have less taper effect.  A very long log with a big butt and small end has more taper and may not scale as good as several smaller cuts from the same log.  However, since I have no experience with this, it is only speculation on my part to fuel the discussion.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

bill m

You can only cut to the lengths the tree will give you. Crooks , sweep, and defects will tell you where to buck the logs to. Try to cut for grade not volume. Try to keep any defects, knots  near the ends of the logs.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Maine372

take a rainy day and do some math. will a 10 with a 8 inch top yeild you more than an 8 with a 10 inch top? also talk to your scaler about how he deducts for rot, knots, sweep, etc.

Jasperfield

Treefarmer87,

Your question is a very good one. Every time you buck a log you're affecting the price.
I'm right there with you waiting for the answer(s).

bill m

I just re-read your op and I have a question. Do you want the most logs or the most money? You can't have both. Bucking for grade not a specific length will bring more money. Have the log buyer/scaler from the mill you send your logs to come to your landing and show you what he wants.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

treefarmer87

they measure from the small end, i have cut the most crooked poplars at the right spot and got straight logs out of the whole tree. i try to cut the knots off . the ends of the logs dont even have to be blocked, but i do it anyway, because i like my loads looking good. i have gotten many comments on how good my wood and cuts look. i want the most money but i dont want to waste either the only waste i really have now are tops and i cut them up for firewood. the guy im buying my skidder from has been logging for 20 yrs, he is a close friend of mine, he always gives me tips and hints. he told me to either cut them 8 or 10'6 so i can get the mos logs out of the tree. i took 2 loads of 16's about a month ago and got $800 total.
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

chevytaHOE5674

I agree; cut for grade not volume if the wood is sold on scale/grade not weight.

There is a program designed by a colleague of mine called HWbuck. It allows you to buck logs and see what kind of return you would get compared to the ideal bucking solution for each log. 

http://forest.mtu.edu/research/hwbuck/downloads.htm

sjfarkas

bucking takes time so I would wonder what is the wash point. 
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

captain_crunch

Get yourself a scale book and look at it a bit may be some of your answers will be there. Out west in the fir log market mills only want 32-40 ft logs They will take(steal) shorter logs but price drops from $500 mbf for long logs to $150 mbf. So you got a better range to work in than me. This is why I aquired my own small mill
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SwampDonkey

When we had a short veneer market 4'4", along with the regular log market. A mid grade log at 8'9" was less money than taking the 4'4" off the but for veneer. Then what you got left is firewood. That adds up quick, both veneer money and firewood, depending on the run of wood. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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treefarmer87

1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

Clark

If you don't know, I would suggest finding out what log rule they are using to calculate volumes. 

If you take a look here you can see that the Scribner Decimal C scale will give you the same volume in smaller sizes but different lengths (10" log from 8-12' is scaled as 3, technically 30 bd-ft.)

So figure out what scale they are using then study a table of volumes.  If'n I had a windows machine I would try out that bucking program, sound pretty neat.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

treefarmer87

thanks for that chart my logs are usually 20"-30" dia and 10'6
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

SwampDonkey

It was a good market because if the 8'9" didn't make veneer you could cut the butt off for veneer. The 4 foot was only for birch species, not maple.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

IMOWOOD

if you set all grade aside, it is always best to buck what will give you the most footage with account for taper. . . . .i ran into this when i was cutting alot of ash that was straight and defect free for 40' or so.  When there is no defect (crook, knot, swirl, scar)  i always buck to the length that will have the least taper.  example is 10'6" is 24"on the small end and a 12'6" is 21" out of the same log a 10 will get you 265bdft and a 12 will get you 240bdft.  then by cutting a 10 your next log should be larger on the tip also.  we run international 1/4 around here an a rule of thumb i use if the diameter drops more than 2" per foot its always best to cut shorter logs(this is all grade aside)

SwampDonkey

Too many tab windows open and I edited the wrong post. Don't know how bucking logs led into planting nuts. :D Fixed that.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

timberjack240

put at least like 6 in on every log . around here if u send a 9' log in youll get laid for an 8' 6" log they wnat trim on every log. were i work for they really only need 4 in but 6 to 8 in is good overall .. around here anyway

treefarmer87

yea i know what you mean timberjack240 the mill i haul to i can cut 10'3 if i want they arent real picky, but a mill up the road wants 10'6 or greater
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

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