Building green...

[mrcaptainbob]

I've heard of some who have built using fresh cut boards. The thinking went that new wood won't move if it's immediately secured. My thinking is that's not a good idea. Shrinkage is one of the things that I'm concerned about, along with boards wanting to stray. Maybe if the boards were alternated so they 'fight' each other, but it just doesn't strike me as a good idea....any other opinions?

[Bibbyman]

Yea...  Here is my opinion.  It depends on what you're building. 





We have built our sawshed out of fresh sawn lumber.  Specifically sycamore.  By framing it up quickly while still wet,  we could bend any boards into place before they had a chance to get away.  It's about imposable to nail sycamore once it dries but it nails and works well wet.  Shrinkage?  Sure.  But it didn't matter to us.  It's not like a finished home. 









Here is a porch on the front of a restaurant that we sawed out of oak.  The posts and nailers are ERC.  The headers, rafters and siding are fresh sawn oak.

We sale a lot of oak lumber that is used green for fence and horse stall construction. 

If I were going to build a home that I was going to finish the inside and expect the walls and such to be true and flat,  I'd saw the lumber as wide as possible and then air dry it.  After it was dry,  I'd put it back on the mill and rip it to width.  We've done this a number of times for customers that were building additions onto their homes.  Seemed to work well.

[woodmills1]

I cut pine for barns and sheds, 2x to wrap the PT posts on 2 foot centers then 1x for board and batten siding....all green, it makes a nice outbuilding

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Saw in the morning and build in the afternoon.  Do it all the time.  If air can get to most of the board it will be fine and dry in place.  That is why it is "board & batten" so the gaps are hidden.  Post and beam construction and timberframing is done with pretty green timbers most of the time.

[captain_crunch]

I am kinda like Arkansawy I nail em up as fast as I saw them. But by the time you wrangle a 12 ft Green 6X6 up on 7ft tall posts you begin to wonder maybe I should have waited till it dried some ;D

[tmroper]

I agree it depends on what you are building.
For anything on the ranch we are framing we saw in the morning and nail it up in the evening or the following day it sure nails nice and not as much chance of splitting.  We also nail up siding right away.  It sure works good for us. 

[mrcaptainbob]

Thanks for the reply's. Most helpful.

[sigidi]

Mr Captain Bob,

Wifey and I made our whole house (around 500sqm/600sqyd) from green rough sawn Aussie pine and hardwood - yeah it shrinks, but when you know it will shrink, you build that into how you make your structure, easy ;)

You can't tell me that 2 or 3 generations ago they only built houses with kiln dried/seasoned timber???

[thecfarm]

The old farm house across the road was built out of green lumber late fall.Had to built something when the house burnt.Winter was coming.You can just about stick your fingers between the boards.This idea would work good for a wood shed.

[sigidi]

The old farm house across the road was built out of green lumber late fall.Had to built something when the house burnt.Winter was coming.You can just about stick your fingers between the boards.This idea would work good for a wood shed.

Interesting, thecfarm, we've built this https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41658.0.html using green, rough sawn Aussie hardwood and Aussie pine. The posts, bearers, joists where all trees less than 3 months before being nailed or bolted together and the wall framing was all pine trees about 3 weeks before being nailed together. All the pine frame was used rough sawn, no dressing to size and we chucked plasterboard on the first buildings wall - I think you guys call it drywall? This has been up 3 years and we don't have any cracks at corners or over windows etc. I know the whole thing has shrunk around 15mm or about 5/8" but that has been from the green hardwood floor members, and as the Floor was a platform floor, this hasn't affected the drywall

[Qweaver]

Our poplar posts and beams had about 6 months of drying before we put them up.  The entire floor, walls and roof were then sheathed with 1" rough sawn with about 9 months drying time.  We then waited until the next summer to frame the outside with 2x4s, insulate and nail up the vertical 10" boards that had been stickered for 1 year.  The sheathing shrank a lot but was pretty well dry by the time we put the framing and vert siding.
We then put up drywall during the winter and we have had no cracking at all.  The inside has really dried out this winter and I was a little concerned but it has been fine.  If we had done it all in one short period instead of stretching it out, we might have had problems.  Most of the interior T&G wall boards have pulled apart some but not too bad.
Quinton

[dsgsr]

I think the temperature swing would have a lot to do with Shrinkage. Getting back to thecfarm's post, here in Maine there can be a lot of shrinkage when our temps going from 90 + in summer to -20 + in winter. Not every winter but you get the gist of it.

David

[sigidi]

David our temp range here (normally in Centigrade, but I converted for y'all) is from 23F to 113F so we don't get as low as you in Maine, but we do get a good deal higher.

Obviously a big difference in humidity will make a large difference in shrinkage rates, high humidity will keep the timber 'swollen', we tend to keep higher humidity ranges as compared to lower.

[Ironwood]

if you are sheeting a framed house/ garage, angle the boards at a 45 to have them shrink and keep the structure sound (think angled wind bracing) but do it on all corners w/ all boards. Back in the 1920-30's the FDA had "Farm building" pamphlets showing this.


Ironwood

[thecfarm]

A demo sugar shack was built at Fryeburg Fair. It looks just about the same way there too.But one thing I can say,it all looks like it was spaced that way on purpose.Told some guy at work each board will shrink about 1/8-1/4 of an inch when they dry out if the boards are touching each other.He went up and saw the results too.I just went down to the horse run in to measure it.Might be off a little.Some had  1/4 some 3/8 gap.Only found a couple with 1/2 gap.I built that out of hemlock.

[Magicman]

I saw a contractor build a house with my fresh sawed framing lumber.  He was nailing up lumber today that I sawed yesterday.  I guess that he knew and understood what he was doing.....I just kept sawing.....

[tmroper]

MrCaptainbob,
What are you building that you are wanting to know about the green lumber on and for what part of the building or structure will it be used?
Framing Lumber
Siding
roof sheething
etc....
Just curious 8)

[ErikC]

 Almost all residential framing is done with green wood that has been sitting out in the rain. It is so wet it drips when you pick it up!  I have built with green a lot and had no problems. It needs to be dried for good results on interior finish work and cabinets though.

[Hilltop366]

Wide boards = larger gaps

Narrow boards = smaller gaps and more of them.

[sigidi]

Erick, I'm with ya on that. Joinery and cabinetry has to be done with seasoned timber, but as for construction I feel it can be done quite easily green and not just outhouse, shed/stable type constuction actual domestic construction as well.

[taschmidretired]

The post and beam/timber frame builders I have met over the years have said with great frequency, "hardwood green, softwood dry"

[mrcaptainbob]

The question is more for edification, tmroper. The neighbor and I were discussing his latest project of building a saw mill and mentioned he heard of guys building green. We're learning a LOT from this discussion. Sure appreciate all the help and information sharing.

[sigidi]

Captain Bob,

I built our whole home using green sawn lumber, both softwood and hardwood, all straight off my Lucas and all without re-sawing or sizing 8)

Parts of it coverall in drywall have been up for 3 years and no cracking at corners etc. If you do a few things with it when building and also you know it is green, then things can be worked with - as I said before, can't tell me the houses built 2 or 3 generations ago where done with seasoned timber.

[Magicman]

I know that in the late 40's and early 50's, my Granddad stood in on end across a crosspiece like a tee pee. I watched him go out and rotate and flip it.