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New EPA restricted saws

Started by celliott, March 03, 2010, 02:33:07 PM

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celliott

Ok, this is just a hypothetical question, I'm not looking to buy a new saw, just curious as to what you guys think.  Out of all the newer, EPA restricted saws, which ones would you say are the best in their class?  Lets assume you can't get your hands on an older 372xp or ms361 or the like, and arent holding onto older saws (I know alot of you are doing just that).  So, which new saws would you choose? how about a top handle saw, 50cc class, 70cc class and larger.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

GlenM

What are you going to predominately use the saw for ? felling, bucking, limbing, climbing, ? and how big is the wood you'll be cutting ?

DonT

In the top handle class it is hard to beat the stihl 200T,I like my huskies but will concede the 200 is the best climbing saw on the market.In the bigger 70cc class I love my 372xpg.But just my opinion of course.  DonT

peppone

tanaka 2801: much better than any stihl.
you're invited to visit my forum all about chainsaws:
http://lamotosega.forumattivo.com/forum.htm
saluti
peppone

SwampDonkey

Here we go again. Any idea how many threads answer the same question on this forum? Not that I'm complaining. Actually, don't care. But, when does it end? :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

beenthere

Quote from: peppone on March 03, 2010, 04:48:12 PM
tanaka 2801: much better than any stihl.

In your opinion... :)

Each to their own.  ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Mooseherder

If the color is important to you it is definately a buyers Market. :D
They have Green, Yeller, Purple, Blue, Orange and Red Saws available now.
I think you can even get a Craftsman Saw in Black.
You can color coordinate with your Vest and Chaps so you look good while felling. ;D

Rocky_J

Quote from: celliott on March 03, 2010, 02:33:07 PM
... how about a top handle saw, 50cc class, 70cc class and larger.
Stihl 200T
Husky 346xp
Stihl MS460 (or possibly a Dolmar/Makita 7900)

The two best that have disappeared in the last year are the Stihl 361 and the Husky 372.

bill m

Quote from: Mooseherder on March 03, 2010, 06:34:07 PM
If the color is important to you it is definately a buyers Market. :D
They have Green, Yeller, Purple, Blue, Orange and Red Saws available now.
I think you can even get a Craftsman Saw in Black.
You can color coordinate with your Vest and Chaps so you look good while felling. ;D
You forgot camo.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Cut4fun

Are we talking, NOT older designs like 200 460 etc.

We talking strato's and cat muffler new saws only to choose from. A lot of older stuff is still being sold.

Rocky_J

I assumed he was asking about saws available for sale today.

I'm stocked up on 372's so I won't need a new strato 70cc saw for a good 6-8 years or more. 3 in service plus one brand new 372 waiting on the shelf. The 200T cannot be long for this world so I plan on buying at least two more this year, and if they are still available next year I might buy a couple more.

DonT

Hmmmmmmm.Do not know many climbers using the tanaka.

Cut4fun

OK then if what we can still buy.

0-40 top handle  200T
3ci 0-50 346xp
4ci 0-65 365 special
5i  0-81 7900
6ci 0-100 660
6+ 100+ 880

celliott

Alright guys, I'm not looking to buy a new saw.  I was curious to what you thought of the newer catalytic muffler and strato saws.  Yes, i know you can still buy the older saws, but the day will come when there is no more on the shelf and the only saws out there are built to the newer EPA regulations.  So, if you were in the market, and HAD to buy a newer regulated saw, which ones would you buy.  Im just trying to start a discussion about these saws because, like it or not, there gonna be around for a while.  I cant see the government putting in place less restrictive emission regulations, only more.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

boobap

QuoteIf the color is important to you it is definately a buyers Market.
They have Green, Yeller, Purple, Blue, Orange and Red Saws available now.
I think you can even get a Craftsman Saw in Black.
You can color coordinate with your Vest and Chaps so you look good while felling.

...or purple, i painted one for my wife so "she had her own". then she had to paint flowers on it too.  :D

Rocky_J

My saws are too important for me to be experimenting with new, unproven technologies. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a saw sold today that is usable in stock form. None of the new changes are done with higher performance as the prime goal, and most of the new changes are much harder to undo than the older methods of simply leaning out the carb and restricting the muffler. I'll stock up and stick with the old, proven technology until something better comes along. I figure we're within 5 years of seeing fuel injected chainsaws so that should prove interesting. But I'll let somebody else be the Guinea pig.

Al_Smith

I have no experiance with the strato charged saws nor probabley will I have .

In regards to conventional designs they have killed the preformance by gov mandated regulations . The new MS 660 in my shed I know for a fact I can out gun with several of my saws in the 70 cc size and that just shouldn't be so .

Now if a person had the where with all and the desire you could keep the older model nearly running forever as long as you can find parts to do so .That limits the ownership of same to about 20 percent or less of all saw owners though .

peppone

Quote from: beenthere on March 03, 2010, 05:40:08 PM
Quote from: peppone on March 03, 2010, 04:48:12 PM
tanaka 2801: much better than any stihl.

In your opinion... :)

It's obvious. anyway I'm not a seller, just a user and a repairman and from my point of view tanaka 2801 is the best one hand chainsaw for many reasons: 28,6cc engine it's enough for all the kind of works that are made by a one hand saw, it's 2.9 chilos weight, I have one and I use it a lot since 4 years without any problem, it costs the half than a stihl.
you're invited to visit my forum all about chainsaws:
http://lamotosega.forumattivo.com/forum.htm
saluti
peppone

HolmenTree

Quote from: celliott on March 03, 2010, 09:35:55 PM
Alright guys, I'm not looking to buy a new saw.  I was curious to what you thought of the newer catalytic muffler and strato saws.  Yes, i know you can still buy the older saws, but the day will come when there is no more on the shelf and the only saws out there are built to the newer EPA regulations.  So, if you were in the market, and HAD to buy a newer regulated saw, which ones would you buy.  Im just trying to start a discussion about these saws because, like it or not, there gonna be around for a while.  I cant see the government putting in place less restrictive emission regulations, only more.
I  got three brand new Husqvarna 576 XP AutoTunes. These saws have no adjustment screws on the carb, not even a idle screw. The computer sets and controls how the saw runs in any temperature, altitude etc.
I've been running saws for close to 40 years, was even a tech rep for Stihl once and these are the best running saws right out of the box that I have ever used.
They pull a 32" b/c in 30-36" wood like a much bigger saw.
Comparing the 576 to my 372 I can't tell any difference in weight from holding the 2. The 576s have only burnt a tank of fuel each  and they easily outcut the well broke in 372. 
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

windthrown

So from the OP I fugure that we are talking about the: Stihl 211, 362, & 441 type saws. These saws are all 2010 EPA approved, and they are available in the states. The 311 and the 391 are coming out right now, but I have not seen or tried them yet. These newer lines are all more gas efficient and they all have slightly to moderately better A/V. They are all more spendy than the non-EPA compliant saws. None of the newer Stihl saws requires a CAT muffler to pass EPA, as they have a stratified air-injected system so as to not dump unburned fuel into the exhaust. With exception to the 211 I do not like any of the newer saws that I have tried compared to the earlier models. The 441 is noticably smoother than the 440 was, but it was spongey to cut with, and its a bulky saw (as well as about a half pound heavier). The 362 is comparable to the 361 in power and A/V, but its a lot more expensive, and its also 3/4 of a pound heavier, which was noticable to me when I ran it. The 211 is a nice saw for what it is, lighter and smoother than the 210 was, but I have no use for a saw that small. The smallest saw I run now is a 260. 

Husky does not have the strato replacement for the 372xp out yet. I have not run any of the Husky 2010 EPA saws, so I cannot say much about them.
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

celliott

Thats what I was trying to get at windthrown, thanks ;)
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

HolmenTree

The Husqvarna 576XP AutoTune is the strato replacement for the 372XP.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

windthrown

Originally the Husky 576 was intended to be the replacement for the 372, but the 372 has such a following that Husky is currently redesigning the 372 with the 372 X-Torque (strato design) model. That is according to a letter that my Husky dealer showed me from the factory when I bought a 395xpw there. It will supposedly be out sometime in the spring of 2010.

The 576 does not have all the features available in the 372 line, and vice-verse:

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/landowner/products/chainsaws/compare-chainsaws/?nid=172992,166400

Simply put, the 576 does not appease the 372 users, so there will be a new strato model 372.

Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

windthrown

Note also here that the new saws from Stihl are not only being redesigned for the EPA laws in the US. They are also being redesigend for the new A/V laws in the EU and UK. That is why the 311 and the 391 were relaesed in Europe before they were released here, and why the 362 was phased in here earlier than in Europe. Smog is a bigger issue here, and A/V is a bigger issue there. The new saws from Stihl are also being redesigned with a different centrigugal air cleaner system, similar to what Husky has. This is in response to all the overblown Husky ads about Stihl having crappy air filters compared to the Husky ones. The ads are a joke, heaping tons of chips on a saw when they are being run. None-the-less, Stihl has changed their air filter covers to a bolted on one that is far more difficult to clean that the older models. They require cleaning less often though (in my case that has never been an issue, even with my old 044).

Its funny, but they have completely removed all the 361 data from the US Stihl web site now. You can still review the older 440 data if you pull up the 441 and type in 440 over the 441. The 361 no longer exists at Stihl USA online and you get an error trying the 440 trick with the 361.
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

peppone

Quote from: HolmenTree on March 06, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
The Husqvarna 576XP AutoTune is the strato replacement for the 372XP.
Willard.
I think 576xp autotune is the replacement of the 575xp: same cc engine and much more. 372 xp is at a lower level...
you're invited to visit my forum all about chainsaws:
http://lamotosega.forumattivo.com/forum.htm
saluti
peppone

Rocky_J

Yes, and the 575 was the unsuccessful replacement for the 372. It did so poorly that Husqvarna had to revamp it after only a year. The 576 sounds like it might be good, but I'll wait and see. I still have four 372's (including one brand new) so I'm set for a few years.

HolmenTree

Quote from: peppone on March 06, 2010, 06:03:41 PM
Quote from: HolmenTree on March 06, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
The Husqvarna 576XP AutoTune is the strato replacement for the 372XP.
Willard.
I think 576xp autotune is the replacement of the 575xp: same cc engine and much more. 372 xp is at a lower level...
The 372XP  is 70cc, 372XP W is 75cc.
576 is 74cc.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Quote from: Rocky_J on March 06, 2010, 06:12:25 PM
Yes, and the 575 was the unsuccessful replacement for the 372. It did so poorly that Husqvarna had to revamp it after only a year. The 576 sounds like it might be good, but I'll wait and see. I still have four 372's (including one brand new) so I'm set for a few years.
The 575 came from the days when Electrolux owned Husqvarna. Since Husqvarna broke away from Electrolux a few years ago and back on their own again 30 yrs later, they seem to have gone through a big restructure. Now we have the 576 AutoTune.
I hear some fallers on the west coast are running the AutoTunes and some of the dealers have figured out how to mod them.
When I said the 576 replaces the 372 I didn't mention the 575 because the 575 was just a hic-up.
A  372 XP X Torque coming out this spring is news to me.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

windthrown

Old news... (X-Torque models of the Husky 372 and the 365). I saw a similar note at my Husky dealer when I asked them about this some months ago, and friends in NY said that they had the same information from their dealers there. This will also impact the J-red 2171.

This was posted last September on another forum from a Husky dealer in the southwest (the email was from his distributor):

We will have the following new Husqvarna saws in 2010:

372XP x torq
Production of the existing 372 will stop in Dec.2009

We are working to ensure that we get our production needs in SOP and the units built in 2009. The new unit (emission ready) is planned to start the first week of Jan.

We "building" inventory to cover Jan 2010 needs and then move into the new unit 01 Feb.

On the 372XPW (75cc version) we can have 500 of these and this will carry us into the second quarter. We need to discuss where the inventory resides....

The new 365 x-torq production will start in mid March 2010- we will plan on a late May 2010 market intro.

I recommend you get the orders in today, and begin building back-orders for any 372's that you want delivered before production is stopped.


Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

HolmenTree

Interesting.
So if this affects the Jonsered 2171, then who owns Jonsered? Did Jonsered break from Electrolux too?
Did Jonsered and  Husqvarna stick it out together?
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

windthrown

Really old news... Electrolux spun off Husky about 4 years ago.

In 1978 Electrolux had acquired Husqvarna and put it under the outdoor products division. All the outdoor products that Electrolux subsequently acquired  like Redmax and Jonsered were put in that division. In 2006 Electrolux spun off Electrolux Outdoor to shareholders and it became the new parent company named Husqvarna AB, also known as The Husqvarna Group. Shares were then issued for the new company in the name of Husqvarna. Husqvarna is now a huge holding company, and they own a lot of chainsaw labels and brands, and they are acquiring more (like Gardenia in 2007). They own all of the following chainsaw equipment and outdoor products labels: Poulan, Poulan Pro, WeedEater, Gardena, Husqvarna, Flymo, Zenoah, Jonsered, Klippo, Dixon, RedMax and Partner. They also own the McCulloch name. Husky also has some other tools divisions targeting the building trades.

Husqvarna had a major corporate reorganization on January 1, 2010, and I do not know where the products are within the company now. They used to be split between the professional products group and the consumer products group, but there was a lot of overlap. Husky saws were made in both groups (low end and high end saws with the same name). At any rate, Jreds are basically just rebranded Husky saws now, as are Poulans at the low end. Husqvarna posted a major reorg to the press a few months ago, basically saying that they are moving major divisions across national borders, and moving more facilities from places like Italy to Asia and Eastern Europe. They have also changed the internal divisions of the company. I presume that that reorganization is still taking place.
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

567paloggger

way to much crap going on with husky and that company to support like stihl its one company not one company owning everything and i bet there pro saws are getting made cheaper and cheaper

bl73

I'll stick with the Jonsered and Husky XP's every company out there is trying to get away with making things cheaper and disposable, as long as you stick with the pro models you should be getting a quality product, as far as the new epa driven models go I'm happy my saws have alot life in them till these new products prove themselves be it stihl, husky, dolmar, ect.

SwampDonkey

Our brush saws by Stihl are German made, always have been. Are your brush saws coming from Germany to?
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

HolmenTree

Thanks for the Husky info windthrown.

Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Warbird

Quote from: celliott on March 03, 2010, 02:33:07 PM
Ok, this is just a hypothetical question, I'm not looking to buy a new saw, just curious as to what you guys think.  Out of all the newer, EPA restricted saws, which ones would you say are the best in their class?  Lets assume you can't get your hands on an older 372xp or ms361 or the like, and arent holding onto older saws (I know alot of you are doing just that).

My opinion about the EPA sticking their... nose...  where it doesn't belong is best summed up in this post I made a while ago:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,42187.msg610219.html#msg610219

As for which saw, I will not buy one of the new EPA restricted saws until I am absolutely forced to.  In fact, I am in the market for a used ms361.  Got one you'll sell me for a good price?  :)

567paloggger

i have 3 brand new 361s im looking to trade for a newer 372 husky

beenthere

I would like to trade for them, but I don't have a 372 Husky.  ;D
A good deal for someone.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

windthrown

Hell, I will trade you a brand new 372 for three brand new 361s... ;)
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

567paloggger


windthrown

Well, you are the one that said:

i have 3 brand new 361s im looking to trade for a newer 372 husky

It literally says that you are looking to trade three brand new 361s for a newer 372 husky...  ::)
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

Rocky_J

I have a brand new 75cc 372 Husky (with about 2 tanks of fuel run through it) and I'll trade it for only two brand new 361's.  8) 8)

windthrown

Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

567paloggger

sorry guys none of you are going to get my 361s i bought them for backups to my huskys and my dolmar

Warbird

Kinda strange to keep your best on the sidelines but to each his own.  ;)

windthrown

Yah, I do not have a Dolmar, and I run my three 361s as my main runners.
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

567paloggger

i like my husky 357xp and 372s xp better but i like alot of saws out there

bill m

My 372xps' are good but I like the 044/ ms440 better. I wish I could find a new one. My 036 will cut circles around my 361.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

windthrown

You must like higher vibration saws.

Sorry, no new 440s out there, and no new 360s either. 361s and 372s are all but gone now too.

Its 441s and 362s now, and the soon to be released 372x-Torque.
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

HolmenTree

You might have better luck finding brand new 372XPs up here in Canada. My Husky dealer just brought in 4 brand new 372XP W's with full wrap heated handles for a local sawmill. They came out of  Edmonton Alberta.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

windthrown

You can still get 372xpw's here as well. The rarer models last on the shelves longer. Its the 372xp models that are all but gone.

Similar thing happened when the 440 was phased out by Stihl. The 3/4 wrap R models were the last ones left.
Stihls: 440R, 361, 360, 310, 260, 211, 020T. Husky: 372xt.
I ship Stihl saws down under: message me for details.

HolmenTree

I was in at my dealer today and he says he can still get 372 XPs [70cc]. If the distributer ever runs out of stock, lots of other dealers will sell what they have. I guess this is how business is done, saws shipped back and forth all over the country.
Speaking of those four 372 Ws he sold to the sawmill, the mill supertindent didn't want the full wrap heated handles, he wanted only standard heated handles. So the dealer had to order new handles and exchanged them.
Talk about a PITA.
Willard.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

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