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tractor options for moving logs

Started by sixteenacrewood, February 17, 2010, 10:33:50 AM

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sixteenacrewood

I am going to get a farm tractor soon. ford 8n or similar. what do you guys like better, a front end loader or a boom pole? I have other uses for a farm tractor not just moving logs. logs will range from 24 in dia and 12 ft long or so, anything wider will be 6-8 feet long. i have been moving logs by hand with a cant hook and pulling with my pickup so i am looking forward to getting a tractor.
so whats best boom pole or loader?
thanks
stephen

wewacountryboy

I would go with the loader any day over the boom pole. Besides you can pick up a used boom pole for around a $100.00. Plus the loader is extra weight on the front end, and that comes in handy when lifting or pulling with a boom. You might want to look closer at the 8n. From my experience, I have found that a 4x4 is a better choice at moving logs from the wood lot. It you are working on solid ground, it shouldn't be as a big problem. I don't know your budget, but shop around. There is some good deals on tractors now.
Jonathan Hanson

ErikC

 Definitely a loader, on a tractor that was built for a loader. Steering and wear and tear are both more severe if you have an afterthought loader. ;)
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

brdmkr

Definately FEL.  However, an 8n would likely have trouble with a 12' log 24" in diameter.
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

sixteenacrewood

thanks, don't laugh but i have a whopping $2000 in my budget! there are some good deals out there now, i have found a ford 6000 for $2800 with a boom pole and a box scraper. the 4wd ones i've seen are out of my price range but they look great. luckily i live way out in the country of south carolina and there are a lot of tractors out here for sale, so i will take my time and look around. hopefuly i will find one with a loader and then get a boom pole later.
any brands of tractors to stay away from?

Magicman

Quote from: sixteenacrewood on February 17, 2010, 10:33:50 AM
ford 8n or similar.    so whats best boom pole or loader?  thanks  stephen 

To me, the question doesn't match the tractor.   I completely understand the "budget" deal.  In one way or the other, that's everyone's "opportunity".

As others have said, a front end loader really needs to be 4X4.  Plus extra weight on a front end that was not designed for it is a "bad thing".

I modified a rear mounted hay fork and do very well, although the front end will rear up.  The good thing is that the forks hit the ground preventing rear rollover.

Start small with what you can afford, and don't worry.....be happy..... :D 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

That Ford 6000 for $2800. don't sound like a bad deal if it's in decent shape!
The 6000 with the boom will be a lot safer than the 8N.  The 8N is really light in the front end.
The 6000 with the boom will get you by until you can find a loader!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

ladylake

A Ford 8n with that setback axle is one of the worst loader tractors made, it's not a bad tractor just not good for a loader. That 6000 sounds good.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

chevytaHOE5674

Personally I would shy away from the 6000. They were only available with the Select-o-speed transmission. For the most part replacement parts are no longer available or very expensive, and finding a mechanic that has the experience to adjust one/repair one is next to impossible these days.

captain_crunch

If you could swing it I would take your funds and make a down payment on a newer tractor. 8N and front end loaders don't mix well. I grew up around two of them and with 24" log if anything lifts it will be the tractor rear end then if you do lift it with out 500-600 pound weight on back all it will do is spin. Also for some unknown to me reason 8N Fords have gained in value about 2.5 times of what they sold for new ::) ::). There are some really good deals on new tractors due to lack of sales. Around here it takes 1,500.00 just to buy a used loader. Kubota makes several nice loader-tractor packages. But I also understand Budget problem this is why I have a 1957 Fordson Major with A-frame and boat winch on front :( :( :( :(. They are Tippy but best tractor set up for moveing logs I have been around is an Industrial Case backhoe with loader
And I concure Chev Tahoe Ford 6000 was a Train Wreck at best been around 2 of them. The Selecto Speed Trans was not one of Fords Better Ideas
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

beenthere

Quote from: sixteenacrewood on February 17, 2010, 10:33:50 AM
I am going to get a farm tractor soon. ford 8n or similar. what do you guys like better, a front end loader or a boom pole? I have other uses for a farm tractor not just moving logs. logs will range from 24 in dia and 12 ft long or so, anything wider will be 6-8 feet long. i have been moving logs by hand with a cant hook and pulling with my pickup so i am looking forward to getting a tractor.
so whats best boom pole or loader?
thanks
stephen

Getting a good running 8N Ford will be difficult (at least around here) for less than $4000.
But I'd suggest getting one if you can within your budget, and forget the boom or loader idea. Move the logs around with tongs on the 3pt to where you can drop them at your mill, and roll them onto the mill deck by hand (moved many a log from the woods to a truck, and from the log deck to the mill with the 8N Ford and the 3pt).  Could rig up an arch to keep the logs off the ground, if that is the reason for the boom or loader.  Hopefully you then can increase the budget to include a 4wd loader sometime in the future. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

fishpharmer

A log arch may be your answer to moving logs.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

sixteenacrewood

thanks for the heads up on the 6000, i don't want anything that is hard to find parts for, i'm a very good mechanic but if the tractor pros have trouble with it then i don't even want to touch it!
i need something with parts still available and built tough. and i definitly don't want something that was a bad experament and then discontinued
thanks cap' and chevy

bandmiller2

Don't rush into a tractor 8 & 9N fords were popular in their day for light farm work,I have used one to yard out logs pretty much bare minimum.As stated don't overlook a loader backhoe combo you can do almost anything with one and their usally heavy duty and can lift with the hoe ballast.I just bought a Case 310 with a good loader for $1500 the deals are out there.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Qweaver

My 1st tractor was a 1984 year model Ford 1910 TLB.  4WD and a factory loader and I lifted mighty big logs with it.  It weighed about 6000 lbs and I still had the rear wheels off the ground many times.  I would not even consider a smaller tractor than that to handle logs.  You may have to consider another way to move your logs if you can not afford a bigger tractor.  I haven't tried a log arch but it seems to work well from what I read here.
A narrow track, 2WD could get you in trouble fast.  It would scare me.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

POC

I've used a Ford 600 tractor to pull some logs, I've also used my Mahindra 3215 (35hp) 4x4.  The Mahindra pulled a little easier, but it is a little more hp and the 4x4 makes a big difference.
But I'd think any tractor vs. no-tractor would be an easy decision.  Using the pallet forks on the back is a good idea, I used that setup to pull some big rocks out of a creek bed and load onto a trailer.
Don't exclude the 'N' series Fords.  You can fix them with a screwdriver and pair of pliers....greatest tractor ever made as far as I'm concerned.
And that's all I have to say about that,
Patrick

pineywoods

8N fords served many a logger and pulpwooder as a small skidder. Nix on the front loader on 8N's. The real problem is the front suspension is way to light, easy to break the front axle completly off. An option you might look at is the old massey ferguson 35 and 135. Almost the same as the ford, parts are readily available..A set of tongs on a bar across the 3 point and you have a very usable, low-budget log mover. I used a 135 for years until I got a big kubota..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Dirtdobber

I agree with everyone about a 4wd with a FEL. That will be my choice when money allows. But for now, my tool of trade is a 801 Ford with a 2 rail hay carrier { works as a set of rear forks } but be careful, it will rare up on occasion. I also use the same tractor to snake my logs. Like everyone said, take your time and look around. I gave $1400, done a routine tune-up and went to work. Good luck.

Busy Beaver Lumber

Don't overlook some of the compact tractors for moving and loading logs. I have a massey ferguson 2310 with front end loader and backhoe and have loaded some logs as big as 24 inches in diameter and over 700 pounds onto my truck and onto the mill with it. The only problem is that the stock front end loader bucket is pretty shallow and narrow, so I overcame this by mounting a couple of tow hooks from a pickup truck onto each side of the bucket so that i could use a chain binder on each side and secure the log to the bucket while moving it.
Woodmizer LT-10 10hp
Epilog Mini 18 Laser Engraver with rotary axis
Digital Wood Carver CNC Machine
6 x 10 dump trailer
Grizzly 15in Spiral Cut Surface Planer
Grizzly 6in Spiral Cut Joiner
Twister Firewood Bundler
Jet 10-20 Drum Sander
Jet Bandsaw



Save a tree...eat a beaver!

tmroper

 8) I am not going to even give an opinion on which tractor to buy 8)

You have probably gotten so many so far your head is spinning.  I will say I think anything will work for you that you can afford.  Yes anything.   You will find a way to get by with anything.  My advice would be since you are a very good mechanic is to look at the major components on the model you are looking at for thing that you are going to have to replace now or future and how accesible they are.  It will sure make it easier on you when you go to replace the part later if it is easy to get to.  I agree and disagree with things like 4x4.  The thing about it is depending on your negotiating power extra options cost extra money sure they are nice but if you are just looking for something to get you by for now why unless you find a great deal on it.  I would certainly prefer to stat a way from some of the extra options and get a little more tractor or dendability.  We have a neighbor who runs a 6000 to bale a 4000 acres of hay a year along with feeding and cleaning pens.  Don't worry about parts you can get them still.  I have several catologs one is from Abilene Machine they can get you the parts used or new.  Take your time and look them over just stay away from a tricycle front end.
Good Luck

panman

I have 4 JD 2 cylinders, you can score one around here in pretty good shape for less than 2 grand.
I would get one with live power, 50-60-etc. As, and Bs do not have live power.
They will pick up my kids demo cars.
The loader will squash the tires to the ground, and you won't be able to steer, but it will pick up about anything. So you might want one with power steering, all of mine are the armstrong type, and they will give you a work out.
They are easy to work on, and parts are available everywhere.
If you look at a 60, make sure the block, or the head is not cracked, this was a common problem.
A Ford 8n, isn't going to have the balls to do the job.
Get a loader, mine all have # 48 loaders they work great.
Mine all have a tricycle front end, which is not a problem unless your load is high off of the ground, and you take a quick turn. You can flip them on their side, Been there done that, very scarey!
Jim

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: tmroper on February 18, 2010, 12:18:52 AM
We have a neighbor who runs a 6000 to bale a 4000 acres of hay a year along with feeding and cleaning pens.  Don't worry about parts you can get them still.  I have several catologs one is from Abilene Machine they can get you the parts used or new.

Many of the internal parts for the SOS transmission are unavailable/expensive I know because I had one. When the transmission died I bought a different tractor for cheaper than tracking down the transmission parts. It was the first attempt at an automatic transmission and they were very finicky and a trick to work on, there are some adjustments that have an endpoint, and you have no idea how close a 40 year old tractor is to those end points.

A quick look at the parts diagrams shows most of the clutch plates and bands are no longer serviced, as are many of the valve body parts, and most of the shift servos are unavailable, etc etc. And fat chance of finding good internal transmission parts in the used market place.

Wudman

One more option....see below.  I built a set of  3 point forks for my Dexta and they work very well for a log (oak) up to about 16" x 16 feet.  Bigger than that and the front end is off the ground.  I solved that issue with this "wheeled" loader.  It is a mast off of a Clark forklift that I bolted some stub axles onto.  It works pretty well, but it is a bit heavy for the tractor.  A lighter weight mast would have been better (this one weighs about 2000 lbs by itself).









Wudman
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

Chris Burchfield

Limited on budget the way you are, I had a need to do bush hogging, boxblading a driveway 1500', and moving logs around the mill.  Having used an 8N, it is very light for larger logs.  I had a good deal on a 4000 Ford w/ eight forward gears. Though I use a boom pole, I use logging tongs on it close to the three point hitch.  Even then, I have to add weight to the frontend on larger logs. Sometimes it looks like the TNT tractor pulls and I have to steer with the rear brakes.  I would think four wheel drive is a must using an FEL.  Otherwise, the rear could be too light and just spin on damp or wet ground if the frontend load was close to the weight behind the front tires.  I have the multiple need for a FEL with everything from sawdust removal to moving things on a farm.  Youngest son just reworked an MF 35 with Bulldog gears on the back. He could not find pistons and had called all around the country. Good Luck.
Woodmizer LT40SH W/Command Control; 51HP Cat, Memphis TN.

pineywoods

If you go looking at the older massey fergusons, be aware that these tractors were built with 3 different engines. The most desireable has a perkins diesel, parts are readily available. Gas burners were either 40 hp continental or 40 hp massey ferguson. The massey parts are scarce, but no problem on the continental. I ran a massey ferguson 135 with continental for several years, mostly as a woods tractor. Had it completely rebuilt a couple of years back, still use it mostly for bush hogging.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

bandmiller2

I have to agree with panman on the old deere two cyl. tractors even the row crops.Look at a 60 or A row crop where the weight is located right near the drive axle and their long legs will get you over obstructions.A 60 will yard out a very large log with an 8n on the outher end. If your woodlot is on a side hill then use a low rider.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

T Red

I love tricycles, have one myself.  But if you are inexperienced I would suggest something with 4 legs.  Even more so with a loader. 

You will need a lot of patience to find the right thing for the right price. 
Tim

woodmills1

seems like you could find a 4x yanmar for not too much
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

flibob

I don't want to bad mouth anyone it is just that trial and error can be an unforgiving teacher.  Long legs and obstructions can get you killed.   Same thing with a tricycle.  There is a reason you don"t have climb up into a bobcat.   The county extension agent has lots of free info on tractor safety .  A set of tongs on the three point will keep the load low but still mostly out of dirt.
The ranch is so big and I'm such a little cowboy

Busy Beaver Lumber

And even a log tong on a three point hitch can kill you in a second if you are not careful or in the wrong place at the wrong time. I had a good friend in Columbia City Indiana that was killed last year when he was dragging a log with a set of tongs hooked to his 3 point hitch. He went down a gully and when he was coming up the other side, the nose of the log caught and his foot came off the clutch for a second and the tractor went over backwards crushing him between the tractor and the log. That very same week, another friends son was killed cutting grass at a golf course when the mower he has riding slide down the wet grass towards a pond he was cuting around and pinned him under water. You also need to be very careful using an ATV to pull a log arch. It is very common to see someone pull a log much heavier than the ATV is rated for and with their small brakes and baloon tires, they just can not stop a heavy load that well when going down a hill, especially on wet grass. Keep the hobby fun and work safely and within the capability of whatever you buy to move logs
Woodmizer LT-10 10hp
Epilog Mini 18 Laser Engraver with rotary axis
Digital Wood Carver CNC Machine
6 x 10 dump trailer
Grizzly 15in Spiral Cut Surface Planer
Grizzly 6in Spiral Cut Joiner
Twister Firewood Bundler
Jet 10-20 Drum Sander
Jet Bandsaw



Save a tree...eat a beaver!

Coalsmoke

The thing with 8N tractors is you will likely be paying a collectors premium as they have turned into quite a collectable lately, unless you find one in really rough shape, at least parts for them are reasonable if you do go that route.

You being on a strict budget need to look at necessities carefully. 4wd is not a necessity, yes it is handy, but HP and mass is more important when we're talking log handling. Large 2wd tractors with diff locks and a set of chains if needed can do a lot of work, often at half the cost of a 4x4 counterpart. After size and power, I would put a front end loader and appropriate ballast as a necessity, you will never take it for granted.

I have nothing against 4wd, I love them and own them, just don't let the 4wd option bring you to settle on too small of a machine for the job. A dead operator or broken tractor doesn't do anyone, including yourself, any favors.

Visit Coalsmoke's website at www.coalsmoke.com

2008 Norwood Lumber Mate 2000 with Honda 20HP engine.
White 2-60 Field Boss > 65HP Tractor with loader.
Husky Chainsaws 353 and 395XPG heavily modified.
Loving wife who endorses all of the above :)

dovetails

Quote from: Coalsmoke on February 19, 2010, 02:29:28 AM
The thing with 8N tractors is you will likely be paying a collectors premium as they have turned into quite a collectable lately, unless you find one in really rough shape, at least parts for them are reasonable if you do go that route.

You being on a strict budget need to look at necessities carefully. 4wd is not a necessity, yes it is handy, but HP and mass is more important when we're talking log handling. Large 2wd tractors with diff locks and a set of chains if needed can do a lot of work, often at half the cost of a 4x4 counterpart. After size and power, I would put a front end loader and appropriate ballast as a necessity, you will never take it for granted.

I have nothing against 4wd, I love them and own them, just don't let the 4wd option bring you to settle on too small of a machine for the job. A dead operator or broken tractor doesn't do anyone, including yourself, any favors.



I agree with this, but will add,go for one with a heavy built front end if it has a FEL. My 3000 ford works great with a barrel of lead for weight on the 3 point hitch,I can pick up over 2,000 lbs with it,BUT it also has bent the front end so now the wheels lean inboard! Just missed a case backhoe yesterday on a local sale site for $3,000.00. Oh well, got to keep your eyes open!
1984 wm lt30,ford 3000 w/frt lift,several chain saws, 1953 model 30 Vermeer stump grinder,full wood working shop, log home in the woods what more ya need?

bugdust

First I don't want to sway your decision of which tractor to buy and try to compare  models, but I will share my experience. I was in your place a few years back and purchased a Ford 4000, which actually did a fairly good job. I quickly found out a 2WD was not the way to go. I sold that tractor and bought a Zetor 4 WD 3340, now that's a hunk of iron with lots of power. I put a Bush Hog front loader on the tractor which made all the difference when it came to picking up and carrying logs. I also found a set of forks and fabricated a quick hook up which made moving slabs a lot easier. My suggestion is, first decide just what you will be using the tractor for, then add in the factor for future needs. SHOP AROUND, there's some great deals floating around these days. My advise, for what it's worth, don't undersize, and most important, be careful because farm tractors are not designed for logging.
Since I retired I really like work: It fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours.

panman

Instead of a tractor, consider a crawler.
I'm just about done restoring a JD 420 crawler, with a high lift loader.
This should be an awesome sawmill rig.
Don't think there is much I won't be able to pick up?
By the way bought my first Woodmizer yesterday, a 94 LT40 Hydraulic, with 460 hours. Also got a 12' bed extension with it, look out tree's I'm a coming.
My old Haddon lumber maker, just isn't cutting it anymore.
Jim

Qweaver

Quote from: Coalsmoke on February 19, 2010, 02:29:28 AM

You being on a strict budget need to look at necessities carefully. 4wd is not a necessity, yes it is handy, but HP and mass is more important when we're talking log handling. Large 2wd tractors with diff locks and a set of chains if needed can do a lot of work, often at half the cost of a 4x4 counterpart. After size and power, I would put a front end loader and appropriate ballast as a necessity, you will never take it for granted.

I have nothing against 4wd, I love them and own them, just don't let the 4wd option bring you to settle on too small of a machine for the job. A dead operator or broken tractor doesn't do anyone, including yourself, any favors.



A big part in your decision is how you plan to move the logs.  If you have a manual mill without a de-barker then skidding logs through the mud and rocks is just not reasonable.  To lift 18" to 24" logs on forks or with chains hooked to the back part of the bucket requires a 5000+lb, 4 wheel drive tractor with a backhoe or other heavy counter weight on the rear.  
I have routinely picked up 2000lb 24" logs with my Kubota 3130 TLB which weighs about 6000 lb.  But many times the rear end was getting very light and I would not have done this if I had to move through uneven, steep ground.  So to try to do the same lifts on a 2WD narrow track tractor with a FEL is an accident waiting to happen.  
There have been times when we just had to skid the logs for a short distance just to get them to a place where we could pick them up and we often had to power wash or debark to keep from dulling the saw blade.  Very time consuming.  If you have a de-barker then skidding may be OK.  I don't know about that.  In my opinion, 4 WD and a wide track front end are essential.
Remember there are no brakes on the front wheels and when the rear end is very light the front wheels in a low gear may do most of the breaking when going downhill.  
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

beenthere

panman
I restored a 420C crawler, and new it was going to be a money sink whenever the tracks needed re-work. As it was, just the clutch's and brakes absorbed a lot of cash.  :)
Much as I liked it for logging out wood, it wouldn't be my recommendation for anyone.  :)

Say nothing about it being a collectors item that commands a very high price if in good, restored condition. Like maybe $8-10,000.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

bandmiller2

So much depends on the lay of your land,forget carrying logs out of the woods with a loader of any type too many things can happen.Really a log arch made/store bought is one of the best and the best of them completely carry the log off the ground.Next best is a trailer,least is draging them.A small heavy duty trailer with a winch on the front is good especially if it will lift and load on the trailer,you can pull the logs out of areas you can't reach with the tractor.The loader is used carefully on flat hard level ground to unload trailer and load logs on the deck.Set the hydraulic releaf to bypass just before the rear wheels will lift.Forks that you can see the tips are hard to beat,keep the load as close to the ground as possible.Any time you spend on good wood roads is time well spent.Everything in the woods and around the mill is dangerous,its how you manage it.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

bandmiller2

What Beenthere says about crawlers is true their a money pit.I restored a 420c that was given up for scrap,completly taken apart,rebuilt and new pins and bushings.If you don't use it often be sure to block the steering levers back to partally release the steering clutches they have a tendency to freeze togather and its not fun to remove and free them up.crawlers have a place but don't waste them when rubber will do the job.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

DanG

There are a few things that can make your life easier while you wait for the right tractor to come along.  I had to get creative before I got a proper log handling machine.  The first thing would be to put a winch on your truck, if you don't already have one.  For anyone on a really tight budget, I suggest the 8k model that Harbor Freight sells for about $300.  Just be sure and get the 2yr extended warranty along with it.  I wouldn't buy it without the warranty. ;)  The next thing would be a log arch.  If you're up to some minor fabrication,  HF also has an item that is almost a ready-made arch.  It is their 3-point "quick hitch" device that sells for about $75.  It's built real sturdy and has a 27" opening.  All you would have to do is add some wheels and a pole on top and you'd have a fine arch for cheap. ;)

A cant hook is a great tool for turning a log, but it is a poor way to move one from one place to another.  Learn to parbuckle and your back will feel much better.  This is something you can do with just a piece of cable, chain, or rope, by doing the pulling with your truck.


ps: Looks like me and Bandmiller2 are on the same page again.  Great minds and all that, ya know.
;) :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

ErikC

  I would avoid a tracked machine as well. I have ran dozers and trackloaders a lot, and they have their place for sure, but around the mill they are too tough on the ground. It turns into a dustbowl all summer, and will be the worst mud you ever saw all winter. Track wear and steering clutches need more attention when all you do is 180's all day too. No, I would stick with rubber at the mill site, and around the yard area.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

panman

Maybe I'll have to reconsider using a crawler around the mill.
I'll try her, and see what happens.
I've been using a JD 1010 dozer for years for skidding out logs, it's the only thing that works on my land in northern Minnesota.
Yes, it has cost me some coin to rustore, but so does every other toy that I have.
Right now, I have a brand new late 50s dozer. LOL
I like old junk, and I use it!
Jim

Coalsmoke

Quote from: Qweaver on February 19, 2010, 09:16:43 AM
Quote from: Coalsmoke on February 19, 2010, 02:29:28 AM

You being on a strict budget need to look at necessities carefully. 4wd is not a necessity, yes it is handy, but HP and mass is more important when we're talking log handling. Large 2wd tractors with diff locks and a set of chains if needed can do a lot of work, often at half the cost of a 4x4 counterpart. After size and power, I would put a front end loader and appropriate ballast as a necessity, you will never take it for granted.

I have nothing against 4wd, I love them and own them, just don't let the 4wd option bring you to settle on too small of a machine for the job. A dead operator or broken tractor doesn't do anyone, including yourself, any favors.



A big part in your decision is how you plan to move the logs.  If you have a manual mill without a de-barker then skidding logs through the mud and rocks is just not reasonable.  To lift 18" to 24" logs on forks or with chains hooked to the back part of the bucket requires a 5000+lb, 4 wheel drive tractor with a backhoe or other heavy counter weight on the rear.  
I have routinely picked up 2000lb 24" logs with my Kubota 3130 TLB which weighs about 6000 lb.  But many times the rear end was getting very light and I would not have done this if I had to move through uneven, steep ground.  So to try to do the same lifts on a 2WD narrow track tractor with a FEL is an accident waiting to happen.  
There have been times when we just had to skid the logs for a short distance just to get them to a place where we could pick them up and we often had to power wash or debark to keep from dulling the saw blade.  Very time consuming.  If you have a de-barker then skidding may be OK.  I don't know about that.  In my opinion, 4 WD and a wide track front end are essential.
Remember there are no brakes on the front wheels and when the rear end is very light the front wheels in a low gear may do most of the breaking when going downhill.  

I respectfully disagree here, because trying to use too small of a tractor for the application is the real accident waiting to happen, not whether its 2wd or 4wd. Unless you plan to also be going on mountain crossing adventures in search of logs, 2wd will work quite well. I would not consider any tractor under 8,000lbs for carrying typical logs on a FEL as it just doesn't have the mass behind it. "Typical logs" being those logs up to 16' in length and up to 34" in diameter. I suspect most of us here are working in a similar application and are not trying to move 40' x 28" logs. I run a 65HP 10,000lb 2wd tractor, that is geared properly, has large enough brakes to actually stop with a large log on, can pick 3,500lbs, which means it can really pick 3,000 lbs with a safety margin, and will easily out maneuver any MFWD tractor of its same class. Maneuverability matters to most of us with a small log yard unless you have lots of space for your log operations as some do. If working with a 6,000lb tractor, a better option for the larger logs would be to skid them off the 3pt or use a logging arch if the terrain is too rough, or the log too heavy to not be dragging the butt in the dirt which as has been mentioned, is a safety concern.

When talking equipment for handling logs, its one of those things where "size matters"  ;)







Visit Coalsmoke's website at www.coalsmoke.com

2008 Norwood Lumber Mate 2000 with Honda 20HP engine.
White 2-60 Field Boss > 65HP Tractor with loader.
Husky Chainsaws 353 and 395XPG heavily modified.
Loving wife who endorses all of the above :)

ErikC

Quote from: panman on February 19, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
Maybe I'll have to reconsider using a crawler around the mill.
I'll try her, and see what happens.
I've been using a JD 1010 dozer for years for skidding out logs, it's the only thing that works on my land in northern Minnesota.
Yes, it has cost me some coin to rustore, but so does every other toy that I have.
Right now, I have a brand new late 50s dozer. LOL
I like old junk, and I use it!
Jim


Around the mill I would definitely reconsider. For getting logs out of the woods, tracks are great. They are stable, have good traction and low center of gravity. A man with a crawler in the woods and a rubber tired loader at the mill has it made. :)
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

beenthere

Quote from: panman on February 19, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
.........
Right now, I have a brand new late 50s dozer. LOL
.........

The Deere 420 was a late 50's (prolly '58) ....is that the late 50s dozer you mentioned?

We like pics... ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sixteenacrewood

wow, great advise, thanks everyone. i didn't expect to get this many responses.
I have figured out a starting point for finding a tractor, first, is i want a wide front and as heavy a tractor as i can find.
the 8n i had mentioned is only because i like their look and style and there is a rebuilt one close by for $2000. how much weight can it pick up with a boom pole or a front end loader with forks?

thanks for all the safety advise, i have heard some bad stories from my neighbors these past few days and they will show me the "what not to do" things.

i also measured most of the logs and planks i have on hand. most are in the 800 to 1000 lb range and most of the milled furniture planks are in the 200+/- range and some forks to move them would speed me up to more than cover the $2000.

my land is almost flat with only a gentle hill where i will be skidding, yes i want to build a log arch

i have a tandem axle trailer for moving logs and would like to drag them off with the tractor. a buddy of mine pushes them off with forks, when i watched him do it i decided i needed one.

luckily for me, at this point i only move and process enough logs to fuel my furniture making, mostly live edge primitive/rustic benches and  tables. so volume is low and even a bit of mechanical help would be a big improvement.

right now i drag with a pickup, roll with a cant hook, and mill freehand with a chainsaw.
log moving and milling is not that bad but getting planks moved to the kiln and then to the shop is tough, nothing rolls, so i thought a trackor with forks could load and or move the flitches and planks better than anything
most of the lengths i work with are 6 and 7 ft long with the ocational 10-12 footer
i've cut up two in the 36 inch wide range but most are 14-24 inches wide
but i always want to make bigger and bigger designs so maybe a 50 hp size tractor would be best, but i may have to settle on something smaller to keep me going  and scale up later.

also i have some time to look, my money frees up in mid march so i should have a pretty good grip on what to look for and offer.
any more advise for a small operation just getting out of the stone age?

you guys joke about having sawdust in your veins, and its true.
*DanG i'm glad i found this site
thanks

captain_crunch

Food for thougt how about an A frame to lift logs on to rollaway deck to mill and use tractor  to hoist them. You can accomplish lots with the little 8N if you don't know anybetter we did. ::) ::) ::) But there are lots newer ways doing it But any log over 12 ft long with a tractor front end loader is almost an Accident waiting to happen above 6 in off ground :( :(
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Coalsmoke

Capt crunch, you need to come visit and put some time on a good sized rubber tired tractor, I'm worried you have too much rust in your veins from banging your shins on all those tracks you have around the farm  ;D I can put about 24 feet on the forks before I get nervous, but since my mills capacity all I ever move is 16 and under which is comfy. I think if I were running an 8N I'd be reserved about putting anything longer than 8' on the forks.

I like tracked machines, but a big tractor will do a lot of work for less money, and you get 60" rubbers hooking up and you can pull a house with the right machine.


PS: CC, I got your last email from Jan 23, I'm way behind on emails, taxes have been taking most of my free time. I will respond soon. Sorry  :(
Visit Coalsmoke's website at www.coalsmoke.com

2008 Norwood Lumber Mate 2000 with Honda 20HP engine.
White 2-60 Field Boss > 65HP Tractor with loader.
Husky Chainsaws 353 and 395XPG heavily modified.
Loving wife who endorses all of the above :)

bandmiller2

The real sleepers in the mill loader dept. are the old four wheel drive non-articulated loaders like a hough,michigan nelson est.Their awkward as swell but heavy enough to handle the largest logs and can be had cheap put forks on one and a big enough yard to turn around and your in clover.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

panman

BT;
Yes it is a 420, with a high lift loader.
Should have bought a good dozer, and used this one for parts. LOL
I'll be getting new pins, and bushings, hopefully this week, then she will be done!
If anybody in the upper midwest needs parts for small old dozers, mainly JDs.
Get ahold of me, and I'll give you a few names.
These guys will not ship parts, and they are in northern Minnesotah, so you would have to travel.
I also know where there is a nice JD 350, and a JD 450 for sale, if anybody is looking?
Jim

Papa1stuff

Here's acouple pictures of what I use to handle my logs !



1987 PB Grader with forks added to bucket
2--2008 455 Rancher Husky
WM CBN Sharpener & Setter

stonebroke

What kind of loader is that? The axle looks kind of strange.

Stonebroke

pineywoods

Hang one of these on an 8N, po mans fork lift. This one is on a small yanmar, works good to feed a norwood.



1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Papa1stuff

What kind of loader is that? The axle looks kind of strange.

Stonebroke

It is a Puckett Bros Grader ,It was made in GA ,so probably not to many in the North.
Also they don't make them anymore ,what shame as they are the best small grader ever made IMO
1987 PB Grader with forks added to bucket
2--2008 455 Rancher Husky
WM CBN Sharpener & Setter

sixteenacrewood

hey pineywoods, how hard is that set up to come by. and how much weight could i pickup with an 8n with forks like that?

ErikC

  I move 30" , 25 foot long green logs with my backhoe when the ground is good, and with ease. Rubber tired skidders have been getting wood out of rough country forever. Tracks are good, but they have many disadvantages.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

pineywoods

Quote from: sixteenacrewood on February 20, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
hey pineywoods, how hard is that set up to come by. and how much weight could i pickup with an 8n with forks like that?

To be honest, I don't rightly know, that rig ain't mine, it belongs to a neighbor. The Yanmar is smaller than an 8N.  I'll ask him next time I see him. The rig is all home-made. It has some limitations, but it's cheap. Made out of pipe and angle iron.His mill is a norwood set on railroad ties, only about 16 inches off the ground.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

captain_crunch

Coalsmoke
My problem is I Have not ventured far enough from mouth of Cave to get real worldly ;D ;D. My Dream set up would be a 580 Case backhoe with forks for bucket. Then you could work hoe part time to offset expence. Have seen Duane haul 30 ft poles with his. He puts outrigger down sets one end on it with hoe then chains other end to bucket lifts outrigger and bucket and off he goes. If it acts tippy he swings hoe to opposite side for balance
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Wudman

Quote from: sixteenacrewood on February 20, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
hey pineywoods, how hard is that set up to come by. and how much weight could i pickup with an 8n with forks like that?

I have a set of forks similar to that for use on my Fordson Dexta.  It is built out of 2x3x 1/4 inch box tubing.  I can handle a 16" x 16 foot red oak with it (about 1500 Pounds).  I don't think an 8N would lift quite that much.  On the Dexta, any more than that and the front end is off the ground.  I could add some counter weight, but hanging close to a ton on the three point hitch might be a little harsh on the tractor.....and I like my little tractor.

Wudman
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

shinnlinger

Old N Fords are nice in parades

My opinion  is if it is going to have a front loader, it should be a 4x4 OR at least 50 horse. 

The bigger tractors tend to go for less $ per horse also, but I agree that an older bucket loader or even a loader/hoe might be a good option if you are  using it to support a milling operation.  Check out those construction auctions.  sub $5000 deals happen all the time on these machines and they are 10-20x what a N is.

I think saving some more and looking some more would make you happier in the long run. 

Dave
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

Coalsmoke

Quote from: captain_crunch on February 21, 2010, 02:06:11 PM
Coalsmoke
My problem is I Have not ventured far enough from mouth of Cave to get real worldly ;D ;D. My Dream set up would be a 580 Case backhoe with forks for bucket. Then you could work hoe part time to offset expence. Have seen Duane haul 30 ft poles with his. He puts outrigger down sets one end on it with hoe then chains other end to bucket lifts outrigger and bucket and off he goes. If it acts tippy he swings hoe to opposite side for balance

I agree, that would be a nice setup!
Visit Coalsmoke's website at www.coalsmoke.com

2008 Norwood Lumber Mate 2000 with Honda 20HP engine.
White 2-60 Field Boss > 65HP Tractor with loader.
Husky Chainsaws 353 and 395XPG heavily modified.
Loving wife who endorses all of the above :)

backwoods sawyer

It seems a tractor over 30 hp can handle most logs that my customers stack up. Not saying the guy with the 13hp Kubota didn't get the logs to the mill just that he had to work really hard at it. If it has a loader you want 4x4.Forks in the bucket or a couple hooks welded to the corners lets you carry shorter logs but for the longer ones a 3 point hitch with a short gin pole works good to get the end off the ground. The Yanmar, Iseco, and other imports in this size give you most of those options at a good price. I like the 8N's and 9N's, they will work for dragging in logs but so will a pickup.   
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

tractormanNwv

Just a word to the Wise....You will hate a 8n, 9n or 2n Ford for any kind of use that requires Hydraulics....The Hydraulic Pump is in the belly of the trans area, therefore the clutch has to be engaged for the Hydraulics to work, Trust Me they will work You to death, especially if Your trying to ease the tractor along and use the hydraulics/3-point at the same time. the 1953 and up fords are Ok, the pump runs off the Flywheel (Live Hydraulics), Just a Helpful Hint, Good Luck in Your Search.

ladylake

Quote from: pineywoods on February 20, 2010, 11:15:40 AM
Hang one of these on an 8N, po mans fork lift. This one is on a small yanmar, works good to feed a norwood.






  I have a set of those for my MM   M5, I put a hydraulic cylinder in place of the top link.  Since I got my skidsteer it doesn't get used much.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

stonebroke

If you want forks like that go to a farm supply store and just buy a set of big round bale forks.

Stonebroke

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