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Too heavy to push

Started by Grower, February 04, 2010, 03:00:29 AM

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Grower

The mill, although still in the workshop, l can see is going to be too heavy to push on the bed by hand. Whats the best, simplest, cheapest and easiest way to get this thing down the tracks?  I see Cooks use chain (1 or is it 2x8 metre lengths times a million dollars a foot, you get the picture). Am looking at sticking the angle iron on its side and getting made 4 steel wheels with grooves in them running on roller bearings which will reduce friction greatly, shes still got to get from one end to the other somehow.  ;D
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

ladylake

Get some ball bearings in those wheels and it should push easy.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Grower,they make castors ,or you can buy just the "V" wheels for them to run on upside down angle iron ^.To power your carriage the best way I've found is a wire cable wrapped around a drum turned with a hydraulic motor mounted on the carriage it just pulls itself along.You can put a cheap speed control in the line to the motor fully adjustable feed and fast gigback. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

beenthere

Grower
See you are continuing to make progress with your sawmill build. We like pics, and haven't seen any yet.   ;D

Maybe keep a running thread, so your questions and ideas stay connected, rather than start a new thread each time. Then a search for homemade mills will/may find you.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Grower

I notice that one cant post a very pic on here, took a few before of the mill to show everyone, now l have to resize them all lol.
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

paul case

my ez boardwalk mill has those steel v castors running on a rod. the head on it must weigh 700  to 1000 pounds and it rolls if the mill isnt set perfectly level. pushes through real easy.
i always wondered why no one tried putting a pneumatic tire running on the track powered by and electric motor? pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Grower

I notice that when doing preliminary test runs with the mill that the blade tends to fritter as it travels back along the top, is this a normal thing or could it be the tension is incorrect? Tanx.
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

sgschwend

Power feeds solutions vary depending on where you are going to source the power from.  From the frame or from the sawhead.

There are two methods in bandmills and another type in the older circular mills.
1) electric motors and chain
2) hydraulic motors and chain
3) (circle mills, wire rope powered from the husk).

In my construction I have built both bandmill methods for my swingmill.  I wanted to use a DC drive motor but found this solution to be marginal in power, not that I couldn't get a more powerful motor but doing so would counter the original idea of  a "simple and easy to power" solution.  So I switched to a hydraulic motor.  I started with just a log splitter for the hydraulic it worked fine, I could have just added a flow control valve and been done.

As to your concern with chain.
Wire rope which was commonly used is 1/2 or less in cost of chain.  The trick is to use a drum for the drive end and take a couple of turns on the drum to give it good grip.

In the end I have ordered 40# chain in a 100' roll and will implement it much like many of the bandmills you would see.  My power source is from the frame so I need the chain to be in a loop.  The chain ran about $150.  Note 40# chain can be continuously handle a 800 pound load.

If the power comes from the sawhead then you can use one length of chain and have the drive motor on the sawhead, that would be the lowest cost way to do it.
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

5quarter

2 reasons I can think of not to use pneumatic tires on a track:

1)   Sawdust and debris buildup on both the tracks and the tread will upset the alignment of the sawhead to the track and,

2)   any change in tire pressure will mess up the alignment as well.

Chet
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

Grower

If l could upload a jpeg I could show you a pic of a hydraulic drive.
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

paul case

i meant to have a pneumatic tire driving the carriage that was on 4 steel wheels. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

fishpharmer

Grower, have you looked at a Woodmizer LT15?  It uses a rope and crank handle to move the sawhead.  Something that simple may work for you.  Of course completely automatic would be more pleasant to operate. 

I have been faced with the same dilemma on my homemade mill.  However my Lucas has helped me forget about it for now. ;)

Try the java uploader to automatically resize your pics.  Would like to see how it turned out.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Grower

Yea l have the woodmizer CD here and know exactly what you're talking about fishpharmer. If you read message number 6 you will see things have become a bit sidetracked.........  :D
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

bandmiller2

Grower,are you planning to use your mill stationary or mobile.??Hydraulics is the premium power around a mill its dependable and impervous to rain,and if you have it outher time and back saving devices can follow.You don't need alot of power to feed a bandmill,in fact you want the head to stop if it hits something.A flat drum can be attached to a hyd. motor and mounted on the sawhead or on the base with a cheap wire cable I used 1/4", plenty.I regulate the speed with a adjustable valve with a check that allows full flow on gigback and infinate adjustment on feed.If your hyd's are on the band carriage you can use them to raise and lower the band,a big labor saver.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Grower

Tanx for all the help: Re message number 6--------> I notice that when doing preliminary test runs with the mill that the blade tends to fritter as it travels back along the top, is this a normal thing or could it be the tension is incorrect? Tanx
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

paul case

i have never looked at the top of the blade on my mill while it is running. fact is you cant see it without getting in a dangerous spot. the bottom however when i have the guides open all the way,36'', does ''flutter'' a little. mine has a spring tensioner. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

pineywoods

Quote from: Grower on August 28, 2010, 07:47:23 AM
Tanx for all the help: Re message number 6--------> I notice that when doing preliminary test runs with the mill that the blade tends to fritter as it travels back along the top, is this a normal thing or could it be the tension is incorrect? Tanx

Blade flutter can lead to excessive blade failures. A small block of hard wood or something similiar placed so it just barely touches the blade about halfway between the bandwheels will take care of the flutter.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Radar67

Try reading the tutorial on photo posting. The JUploader is the best way to go. All you do is select your pictures and upload them, it does all the resizing for you. I recently uploaded 25 pictures, all in the 5 to 8 megabyte range, and it only took a few minutes.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/board,16.0.html
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Bill Gaiche

Grower, I made 3" groved steel wheels and added a ball bearing, shaft size for bearing app. 11/16". Saw head is real easy to push. Be sure and level your mill.

pineywoods was correct about adding a wooden block on the top side of blade between wheels. Attach block to something stationary. Make it about 6" long X 2" wide and 3/4" to 1" thick. Let it touch the top side of blade just a touch and this wont hurt anything. It will wear in. Good luck. bg

tjhammer


 Grower there's a place in Dallas Tx where I got my v grouve  wheels ,they are heavy duty cast wheels the 4in coms in 2in wide also 1in wide 6in are 2in wide,they come with axles with grease fitting and a good price.they have a web site


       
   Ace casters inc
  2308 Irving blvd
  dallas tx 75207


    tj
 

hammer

Grower

Thanks chief, Dallas is a bit far for me to go in my wirenetting canoe for now..... I found some wheels, black fibery looking things with 2 bearings in them, might do the trick for now. There is a spare bank on the hydraulics so things may change a bit later.
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Grower

Tanx to Bill Gaiche too, I found a block of hardwood, it came from the US 30 odd years ago, its a spare part off a Case 960 header, a block for a chain tensioner, still as good as new, still has the Case orange paint on it and its about the right size and shape. She'll do the trick. I am having 2 weeks off as of end of next week, 2 days at it to finish off the mill (excluding paint job and workshop tidy up, that hasnt been done for 3 years) and l reckon the 4x2's could be flying...............
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Grower

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17673/1910/hydraulic_drive.jpg  <--- dont know if this link will work but its in my album, its shows a kiwi made hydraulic drive l think would work quite well.
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

morgoon

Hello I am new as it gets here, and I have been working on a homemade bandsaw, bringing it back from the dead

Mine is a 4 post design with a 14/15 hp wisconsin. It runs on 4 flat steel wheels with ball bearings (rumoured to be from a forklift) it pushes ok, but I am collecting parts to do the winch motor cable feed thing from a 12v source and hopefully a homemade or perhaps ebay sourced speed control (pulse wave modulator as I understand it)

The carriage/sawhead works well enough, but debris does build up on the track a 3/4" wide piece of flat stock running the length of 2x6 tube steel, often after cutting wood with a lot of sap the sawdust is stuck or rather ground onto the steel track, causing me to clean it frequently

There is a sister mill owned by the original builder of my mill that runs on v pulleys from air conditoner/refridgeration sources I am told...it rolls on 3/4" angle iron layed open face down (bottom the V pointing up) the length of similar 2x6 tube steel, and debris is never a problem

That hardwood block idea is my next improvement...thanks



Homemade bandsaw, made by my mentor and dear friend Unto...who turned 85 this year

And I just made my first longbow...awesome

paul case

Quote from: morgoon on August 29, 2010, 12:11:58 AM
Hello I am new as it gets here, and I have been working on a homemade bandsaw, bringing it back from the dead

Mine is a 4 post design with a 14/15 hp wisconsin. It runs on 4 flat steel wheels with ball bearings (rumoured to be from a forklift) it pushes ok,
The carriage/sawhead works well enough, but debris does build up on the track a 3/4" wide piece of flat stock running the length of 2x6 tube steel, often after cutting wood with a lot of sap the sawdust is stuck or rather ground onto the steel track, causing me to clean it frequently

you might look at some old circle mills that ran on flat topped track. there were serveral of those that used a 2x4 stuck down in a holder for a wiper. it would just slide down the track with the end rubbing the top of the track to keep the stuff off the track. they worked real well and were simple and cheap. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

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