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E Classic owners

Started by wood 4 heat, January 31, 2010, 12:45:46 PM

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wood 4 heat

How many E Classic owners,if you had it to do over again would buy one now?
And why.

doctorb

Despite my issues this weekend - see thread regarding E-2300 not up to heat - I would still buy this item.   There are lots of reasons for this.
1.  The E-Classic has the highest BTU output of all of the gasification stoves approved by the EPA.  Check the list.
2.  I have a large house with 2 basements, 2 oil burners, 2 oil tanks, and 2 hot water systems.  It's like heating 2 houses that happen to be joined in the middle. The E-Classic is 300 feet away in my barn shed.  I need a high output stove.
3.  Maryland has regulated which stoves can be sold and installed in this state.  Other non-gasification units are not available as a choice to me.  No other gasification stove manufacturer dealers are close to me.
4.  I still haven't used a drop of oil this winter and the house is warmer than ever.
5.  I think that, like any new device or computer program, once you aquaint yourself with it, the E-Classic really does a nice job. 
6.  As I have not had any previous experience with an outdoor wood burning furnace, my learning curve and expectations may be differrent than for someone who has a history with differeent models of stoves.

Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

rpote

I agree that I'd buy the EC2300 again. My unit is 180 ft from the house at the carriage house and the ThermoPex installation has really made a difference in wood consumption. The house (1904 - over 5000 ft2 to heat) stays quite warm and no oil consumption (I used to consume 1800 gallons/yr of fuel oil). The payback is still looking good - especially with the recent increases in oil cost. I think I'll only use about 7 or 8 full cord this year, even with the coldest December we've had in 4 yrs.

I think that we've all learned in the past year or so from each other and the learning curve has been pretty steep. Still, the support from CB has been good - especially with the reaction chamber changes. Once you've mastered the boiler, it is pretty easy to maintain.





MudBud

Having no choice except to buy an EPA model here in Maine I would buy again.  It is tempermental for the first year, now I have no issues.  If it doesn't build temp quick or drops quick its my own fault for not keeping up every 2 weeks on cleaning the reaction chamber.  A key as most put in here...if you can get the temp up with the bypass flapper open and once you close it the temp drops and won't increase it can only be a couple of items. My firewood is not very dry and also I use 80% of scrap kiln dried poplar and pine from work.  This stuff burns even better than regular wood and I don't have to worry about a large bed of coals as it burns away.  I get about 10 hours of a 3/4 filled firebox and have already gone through 6 cord of wood...thats it!!!

I just purchased a new door gasket kit...about $60.  I know we can get the gasket cheaper than that.  I have it out for spec'ing to see what I can find.  The sealant used to hold it in place is only a clear silicone, not even heat resistant.

mikey

With the problems I've had with mine, you counldn't pay me to get another one. mine has been nothing but trouble, My dealer has only sold 2 of them and will not stock them anymore I would trade mine for a 6048 in heartbeat, anyone interested?

superwd6

 Yes,  anybody who thinks this boiler is picky and troublesome has never owned a Vermount Castings steel woodstove.  That stove is a pile >:(

beenthere

I have a Vermont Castings Defiant, so it must be different from the "steel woodstove" that you refer to here.

I know from burning wood to heat my home for the last 38 years, there is a lot to consider to get things burning right. Wood seasoning, loading just right, maintenance of chimney, of ash removal, etc. etc.
The eClassic's are obviously something that takes some real skill and a lot of careful analysis of what is happening, when it happens, what is the problem, and shutting it down to take care of the problem. It is beyond anything that I have had to cope with over the last 38 years. I don't envy all the extra work and brain-power that you have to put into getting hot water.

However, the eClassic does remind me of an Iron Fireman oil boiler that was "state of the art" in 1968, and a whole new design of an oil boiler that was to be much more efficient than the conventional method of a standard oil burner. It was good when it worked right. But it was enough different from conventional that no one knew how to tune it or fix it. That was left up to me to figure out and maintain. I did it, but finally in the early 90's decided to toss it and go to a gas fired boiler for back-up to my wood boiler.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

muckamuck

My town and state require the clean burning OWB so the choice was limited but I'm satisfied with the E Classic 2300 so far. It does require about 40 minutes of ash removal and cleaning tubes once a week.  It seems to burn the expected amount of wood and generally does not smoke so my wife and neighbors have never complained and I want clean air.  I would not want one of those smokey ones. Yes, I now have a crack in the secondary chamber, but my dealer says he will replace it free with the new model whenever I wish (I'm going to try to get thru to spring as is.) and so far CB seems to addressing peoples problems as they arise.  I think if a person reads this site he/she should be able to operate it but they have to be willing to pull the solinoids out and clean those once in awhile (hopefully once a season).

renegadecj

I would buy this stove again, without reservation

1) I had a 6048, great stove, but VERY smoky.  I know regulations are coming, and I have no doubt they won't grandfather in a unit that put out tons of smoke.  The E-classic is virtually smoke free, after reaching proper temp.

2)  It was VERY finicky the first year, but this year, no problems at all (my own learning curve).  I periodically have bridging issues, but that is usually from when I loaded it wrong, or too quickly.

3)  It burns slightly less than our 6048, and keeps the house toasty warm.

4)  So far the company has backed any issues without problem.  That would be my one concern, if they start deciding not to cover warranty issues.


MudBud

Muck, where in the secondary chamber and can you get a pic of it and the area?

Thanks

wi woodcutter

I don't own a e-classic, I have a CB5036. I would have a hard time buying a e-classic. When I bought my 5036 I looked at the e-classic. I asked my dealer what he thought about them and he said that he would not sell me one. That pretty much answered that. The only way I would think about it is if I lived in a state that required a re-burn stove. If all you guys are having these problems right now what is it going to be like in 15 years? 
2-066's ms660 034av 076av huskee 27ton splitter CB5036
A guard dog needs food, water, shelter, walking and training.
My Smith & Wesson only needs a little oil!

red oaks lumber

warning.. what i'm writing is not to be taken in any kind of negative manner, i have been burning with an owb for 14yrs not a c.b.i know the future is gasafied stoves i don't like it ! here is my take on gasafication stoves.
1) the stove costs more than double of conventional stoves
2) have to build a wood shed to store(cure) your wood for 2 yrs.
3) baby sit(maintance) your stove way to much.
  lets add up the costs to start using gasafication
stove $6,000 more
wood storage building min $1,500 plus your prop. tax increase
  stock piling 2yrs of wood,  for me 25 rick /yr say $40/rick=$1000x 2
  total extra cost is $9,500 to burn gasafied wood, ya you use maybe 40% less wood so i'll save $400/ yr on wood cost, so that return on my investment is 23 yrs.
i'm not against cleaning up the air, but its coming at a real cost. my stove which is made locally is rated for 10,000sf smokes very little and costs new $5,800 with warranties, so my thought are spend the money buy another stove and keep it storage until my burns out, that buys me another 15yrs for better technology on gasafied stoves.
these are only my thoughts, so please nobody be offended
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

doctorb

red oaks-

Not offended.  You are correct in that the stove is twice as expensive and the routine maintenance is more.  You overstate slightly when you say you have to have a shed for the wood.  I would have used my barn shed anyway. It's very nice to fill the stove out of the rain and snow.  Less slippery, less accidents, less mess when I come back inside.  I don't think that's a gasification issue.  You also overstate slightly the timing of wood curing.  Most believe that, if next winter's wood is split and/or stacked by June, you'll be fine come November.  That was my case this year and my moisture content was about 18%.  Quite reasonable!

While many of us were forced through state regulations to purchase a gasification model, I think that my neigbors appreciate it.  In fact, they don't even know that I have a stove!  It has been my impression and my experience that owners of the non-gasification models understate the amount of smoke that their units produce.

Finally, the time for the return on your investment must be compared to the cost of whatever method of heating you used prior to the wood furnace.  In my case, I used oil and an inside wood stove which cost a total of about $5,500 over last years' mild winter.  I'll be saving at least $3000 (maybe more) this year compared to last years heating costs.  So while the cost of operating your unit may be less annually than mine, I am still saving a bundle and getting a good return on my investment. 

Like you, no offense intended.  thanks for your thoughful post.

Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

ral

My two cents, just started in Oct. 09 with the e-classic so I cannot compare wood consumption. I have not had any troubles that couldn't be overcome by my learning curve. I probably should clean more but I haven't had to. Every few weeks I take ash out of combustion chamber. I do everyday run a hoe by the air holes.. Even in cold weather 10-20 below I have only filled once a day. I do know it will maintain the 185 very well but sometimes  I wait and the temp. drops some and it does take a while to get back to temp. under a load. I can also confirm it is way better with dry wood being I ran out of dry and am burning slightly wetter wood. Don't know the exact moisture content but can definetly tell. It really does not smoke much and sometimes not at all, I have an older model so I did remover the fire bricks on the wall and I am sure I will have a warped reaction chamber to replace in the spring. Even with the install, fully enclosed shed (need the better half to fill when off hunting ;) and such I will break even in 4 - 5 years minus cutting wood, but I need the exercise so it works for me. Heat 3500 sqft house, 900 sqft. garage (50F) and two hot water heaters.

Thanks for all the info. and happy heating

superwd6

Quote from: beenthere on February 01, 2010, 12:06:54 AM
I have a Vermont Castings Defiant, so it must be different from the "steel woodstove" that you refer to here.

My Vermont stove is an EPA stove only two years old. I'm 40 and all we heated with was wood stoves. Newmac Classic I think is what it's called today, It is a real stove meaning it heats,has an ash pan and automatic thermostat. I'm a heating service man who worked for the Vermont dealer. Vermont had financial trouble a year ago and my warranty went south with everyone elses. We had many problems with the gas fireplaces as well.  My EPA approved Castings pile would hold fire for 6 hours but you could sit on it while it done it. Looked awsome after getting it burning by leaving the air wash door open. (Who says a stove is safe when the wood rolls out the door!!!???) Long story short is "for retired customers only" If you hold a job you can't heat your home with that stove.  E-Classic gives me wood 8)

Dean186

Quote from: red oaks lumber on February 01, 2010, 08:23:56 PM
warning.. what i'm writing is not to be taken in any kind of negative manner, i have been burning with an owb for 14yrs not a c.b.i know the future is gasafied stoves i don't like it ! here is my take on gasafication stoves.
1) the stove costs more than double of conventional stoves
2) have to build a wood shed to store(cure) your wood for 2 yrs.
3) baby sit(maintance) your stove way to much.
  lets add up the costs to start using gasafication
stove $6,000 more
wood storage building min $1,500 plus your prop. tax increase
  stock piling 2yrs of wood,  for me 25 rick /yr say $40/rick=$1000x 2
  total extra cost is $9,500 to burn gasafied wood, ya you use maybe 40% less wood so i'll save $400/ yr on wood cost, so that return on my investment is 23 yrs.
i'm not against cleaning up the air, but its coming at a real cost. my stove which is made locally is rated for 10,000sf smokes very little and costs new $5,800 with warranties, so my thought are spend the money buy another stove and keep it storage until my burns out, that buys me another 15yrs for better technology on gasafied stoves.
these are only my thoughts, so please nobody be offended

Red Oaks Lumber,

I would have to respectfully disagree with your numbers.  Here were the numbers I looked at last year (2009).

Central Boiler 6048 (non-gasification)   $8,730
Central Boiler E-Classic 2300             $10,790 – 1,500 tax credit = $9,290

This is a difference of $560.00 before any factory discounts.  The factory discounts were better on the E-Classic at the time I purchased making them close to the same upfront cost.

A storage building is not necessary for an E-Classic anymore than any other stove.  I use a tarp for my wood storage and burning wet wood is not efficient in any type stove, so why would one do it.

It seemed to me, that your comparison was brand X verses brand Y and not gasification verses non-gasification.

Respectfully, Dean

doctorb

For the sake of accuracy I need to correct a previous post of mine on this thread.

I stated on January 31, 2010 at 1:47PM  that the E-Classic 2300 had the highest BTU output of any of the gasification stoves listed as Phase 2 qualified by the epa.  I just checked their list again (for the first time in many months) and I note that the

Pro-Fab Industries, Inc.
Model:  Empyre Pro Series 400

has a BTU output of over 177,000, which is now tops on the list.  The E-Classic 2300 is now second with 160,000BTU. 

I think that this is a Canadian company, but I have no other info on this stove.

I would opine that the BTU output may be important to some potential outdoor furnace buyers as they need to assess the amount of heat required in their individual application.  For instance, when I read the post by ral below, who only fills his E-Classic once a day despite below zero temps, I have got to believe that his house is small and tight as a clam's ---.  For those of us with larger homes or who are heating more than one building, the maximum heat output is important.  I have heard stories about people who have installed smaller stoves that can not keep up with the demand for heat.  Forgive me...off topic for this thread.

doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

wi woodcutter

Quote from: Dean186 on February 02, 2010, 11:50:31 AM
Red Oaks Lumber,

I would have to respectfully disagree with your numbers.  Here were the numbers I looked at last year (2009).

Central Boiler 6048 (non-gasification)   $8,730
Central Boiler E-Classic 2300             $10,790 – 1,500 tax credit = $9,290



Not saying your wrong but when I looked at stoves a year ago the e-classic was over $12,500
2-066's ms660 034av 076av huskee 27ton splitter CB5036
A guard dog needs food, water, shelter, walking and training.
My Smith & Wesson only needs a little oil!

Dean186


The date on the two quotes in front of me is 9/4/2009.  I was quoted the same price from two separate dealers on both the CB E-classics and the 6048 and 5036.  The prices shown above do not include any parts or accessories, since this would be the same for most stoves.  Maybe that is the discrepancy.

I ended up buying the E-Classic 1400 with a list price of $9,630 minus a $700 discount.  I then paid $8,930 for the stove.  This was for sure the price here in Colorado for about three months last fall.

Regards,  Dean

ral

Doctorb,

I listed the square footage in the post. Can you give me some square footage to compare, I would be interested because I know I am losing some heat being the snow dips down where I buried the line, only 130 ft. to house. The temp. doesn't drop much according to the thermostat on the side arm but definatly losing heat. I was thinking of redoing the line but was pleasantly suprised to not have to get up earlier in the morning to fill, VERY suprised. I guess I am lucky, to recap our house is 12yrs. old, has lots of windows, walkout with both floors totaling 3600 sq.ft., (not huge) maintain at 68F, 900 sqft. garage maintain 50F and two hot water heaters with three people using. I paid under $10,000.00 for stove with the CB discount bought after season. So owned 6 months before using to get the discount.

One intersting thing is I think if I got my a__ out of bed and filled twice a day I would use less wood. Seems that filling full it still uses all the wood if below zero or in the 20's? This is my firts year and I have not heated with wood prior besides a very inefficient fireplace. Still learning but appreciate all the ifo. thanks.

doctorb

ral-

My house is 4500 square feet, two basements, two oil furnaces, two HW, each basement with a separate heat exchanger to the E-Classic.  My house is a Brady bunch of additions and therefore, inefficient to heat, no matter the method.  The outdoor furnace has really done the job. 

I think each of us has unique requirements.  Many variables in the type of fuel, dryness, weekly changes in stove efficiency, thermostat settings, number of zones, heat loss in transfer from stove etc.  I would count your lucky stars that, whatever your situation, at those outside temps, you are only filling once a day.  You could be the poster child for the E-2300!  My stove costs were the same as yours, after discount.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Dean186

After writing about last fall's pricing differences for a outdoor gasification furnace versus a non-gasification furnace (see above), I decided it would be better to look at the price differences of the furnaces today. 

My dealer does not have a website, but here is a site listing current pricing on Central Boiler OWF.

http://www.heatinyouup.com/products.html

And from this site we have the following prices for two popular Central Boiler stoves, the E-Classic 2300 gasification stove and the Classic 6048 non-gasification stove.

Classic 6048   $8,730 - $1,125 (rebate) = $7,605

E-Classic 2300   $11,690 - $2,175 (rebate) - $1,500 (tax credit) = $8,015


A difference of $410.00

This would not sway me on my decision and I would still buy an E-Classic.  Dean

doctorb

Dean-

Good info!  I did not price the CB non-gasification stoves because of state regs.  As I bought my E-2300 in 2009, I am just about to realize that $1500 tax credit, which I failed to figure in my stove price comment reply to red oaks lumber previously.  You are right, with my rebate and tax credit, the price difference between the two is not much of a factor.  Thanks.  Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Guitarjunkie37

Here in Ohio the E-1400 is $9600 after $1000 rebate =8600 plus $1500 tax credit = $7200 which brought the price down in comparision to the older 5036 model.

KMAN

This is my second season on my E-classic and i would buy it again at this point even after my post about "When will my E-classic stop smoking???????". With the help of this site and from Doctorb my stove is burning better then it ever has. When I first bought it I was so excited about it but when I could not get it to stop smoking I was getting frustrated and wanted to throw the thing away. After much advice and cleaning everything that I thought was clean this thing does burn well. I will say there is times that it smokes but that is usually from me running low on wood or trying to burn to much junk wood. Lat year I burned through wood like crazy and I was concerned about how much i would need this year but now that it is firing correctly I am using much less wood which makes sense. I love being able to tell people my heating bills over the winter and also love working in my garage when the snow is flying and wearing short sleeves and almost breaking a sweat. Dont get much better then that!!!If somebody would have told me up front that it takes awhile to learn the machine that would have been helpful. Anyway YES i would do it again at this point. KMAN

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