Figuring cost for producing lumber

[Qweaver]

Figuring cost for producing lumber?
I know that the best way to do this is to keep records of actual costs on each sawing job...but I did not do this and it would be almost impossible to recreate these after the fact.
So what is a reasonable figure to use to estimate the cost for producing the lumber for my "Cabin in The Mountains"?  I know that this could vary quite a lot depending on the saw used, ruined blades, fuel price changes, type of lumber produced, etc., etc.  But there must be an average figure that would be pretty close.  I am guessing between 15 to 20 cents BdFt.  But this is just a WAG.  Any suggestions?

Then how about the actual worth?  Lowes does not sell full size 2"x8"s or 7"x9"s or 1"x10" boards.  So all I can do is assign a price per BdFt and again I'm back in that WAG mode.
When I saw for profit I just charge by the hour so that makes figuring cost by BdFt difficult to predict.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Quinton

[Ron Wenrich]

How did you set up your hourly costs?  You probably have some sort of idea how much it costs to run per hour.  And, you also have some idea of how much production you get per hour.   Cost/production will yield a $/Mbf. 

$/Mbf varies widely.  It will vary by log size, species and cutting patterns.  But, your cabin logs were probably of similar size and species, so you're WAG should be pretty close to what the costs were.

As for the box stores, you won't be able to compete with those prices.  Their prices are so low on pine stock that it doesn't realistically reflect the value of your product.  You could call local mills and find their prices.  Then add for your value added of drying and surfacing.

Another option is to figure your log costs and your sawing costs and use that as your number. 

[Magicman]

Too many variables. (1) Are you buying logs or using your own logs that could have been sold?  (2)Cost of cutting and hauling logs?  (3)Depreciation schedule for your mill?  (4)Actual cost of daily operation?  (5)Hiring labor?

For me, these answers are easy.  (1)My own logs, and they are for my use....not for sale.  (2)When I'm cutting and dragging logs, I wouldn't have been doing anything more fun anyway.  (3)I paid for my mill the first two years that I sawed, so it works for free now.  I seriously doubt that my upkeep cost have exceeded $250 per year, including oil/filter changes.  (4)Daily, I'll generally use two blades and 4 gallons of Diesel, $30.  (5)I work alone.

[Qweaver]

OK,
I used 15c per BdFt to produce the lumber and all of my figures are based on the finished size of the lumber used.  i.e., a 2x8 is a real 2x8.  I averaged the cost for lumber at Lowes and I also used the finished size to figure BdFt and it worked out to about 76c per BdFt after tax.  This method showed that it cost me $2350 to produce the lumber and it would have cost $11,750 to buy it.  But you can not buy the post and beams at lowes and I would have needed to find a mill to do it for me.  If I added in my labor the whole thing would change but I'm willing to work for the savings.
The difference is even worse when you consider that I would have needed to use the next larger size to get the same strength as my full size lumber in some cases.  For instance a 1.5"x7.5"x 16' whitewood rafter would not have replaced my nearly flawless 2x8x16 poplar rafters.
BTW, for most of the time while we have been building the cabin and out buildings, there has been very little market for logs.  I used only my own logs that I would have had a very difficult time selling.

[Ron Wenrich]

If the logs are producing a flawless 2x8x16, then you must have some pretty decent logs.  There are markets for those logs.

You have to factor in a log price and labor, especially if you want to compare it to someone else's lumber.  Afterall, they had to buy their trees, pay their employees, make a profit and pay their taxes.  You need to compare apples to apples. 

15¢ sounds awful low when you have guys on the board selling their service for over double that price.  I have a rough time doing that with a fully automatic circle mill sawing over 12 Mbf per day.  Of course, I expect a paycheck.

Another way of checking it out is to take your $9400 in savings, reduce the amount for log costs, and divide that by the number of hours it took you to saw everything up.   That will give you how much you worked for on an hourly basis. 

[logfarmer]

Hi,
This is an interesting topic to me as I am considering buying a smaller gas bandsawmill like a Norwood 26 or a Woodmizer lt15. Something with a gas engine around 10 to 15 hp and maual feed. Im in NE Washington state and would be cutting douglas fir, grand fir, lodgepole pine, larch, hemlock and spruce some standing dead and mostly live. \
These are my own trees so what would it cost per hour to operate such a saw? Just the cost of blades, gas and maintance.
No cost for getting the logs to the mill just the actual cost to run the mill with my own free labor.
Thanks,
Martin

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

And welcome to the forum Logfarmer  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) as far as running cost of a little bandmill figure on about 1/3 a gallon of fuel and about $2 or 3 per hour for band purchase and sharpening costs if your using a resharp serviceand depending on how clean your logs are   ;) and ownership would be around the $25 to $30 per week Which aint much against what you will save over the long run Mate

Qweaver if i was you id use either Magics or  Rons posts to do your caculation as its a pretty simple way of doing it to get the outcome your looking for  ;) it is alot easier to calculate things on actual cost imputs as you go on projectes like yours Mate  ;) and like Ron i think your undercutting yourself I think the timber you used would have been alot better grade than you could get from a box store id Figure on atleast $0.30 cents a bft Mate  ;) ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[stonebroke]

opportunity cost. What would it have cost you to buy the lumber or on the other hand what could you have sold the lumber for.

Stonebroke

[Qweaver]

Howdy everyone and welcome to  forum Logfarmer.
I understand that counting labor and the cost of the sawmill is important in figuring the cost of running the mill but that was not my intent. If I counted my labor and the labor of my un-paid friends, the cost for building my cabin would be beyound what I would be willing to spend.

I posted a spread sheet in my "Building a cabin in the Mountains" thread to list the money spent over the last four years to construct the cabin.  I did not include un-paid labor or the cost of producing the lumber.
This current thread was my attempt to find out how to make a reasonable estimate of what I ACTUALLY spent to produce the lumber.  I'm not trying to find out what I would have to charge to make a profit...just what I spent to produce it

I don't know how the timber market is in other areas, but we have 120 poplar logs stacked on the property that we have been unable to sell at a price that makes it worthwhile to haul.  I'm sawing what I can but the broken hip put the brakes on for awhile.  We sawed during the past two days and it was great to be making lumber again.
Quinton

[Magicman]

Welcome to The Forestry Forum, logfarmer.  As far as actual costs go, look at my "tongue in cheek" response above.  Those are my actual costs.

[sigidi]

Hey there logfarmer, welcome.

Qweaver, I've milled using a Lucas for 6 years being paid on a volume of log basis, I've learned to use a recovery figure of 40% so I know at the end of the day good, bad or indifferent logs will produce more than that. So I know my customer gets timber on the ground for $500 per cubic metre or less, so that is around $1.18 bft using 424 bft per cubic metre I tend to only cut pine for myself as the pine market is much lower priced, so that is a figure for Aussie hardwoods. Our typical pricing for fencing and landscaping grade hardwood is $700 per cubic metre and structural hardwood ranges from $1,000-$2,500 per cubic metre and specialty/appearance hardwoods can go up to $4,000 per cube for slabs or unique stuff.

Having said this timber for myself obviously costs much much less 8)