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Portable Mill Owners can get grade stamps to

Started by SwampDonkey, January 26, 2010, 04:22:37 PM

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SwampDonkey

An article in the latest Atlantic Forestry Review featured a portable mill owner, named Peter deGraaf, with a Boardmaster brand manual bandmill. He wanted to use his own lumber for construction on his farm. He was required by the local planning authority to use graded lumber and sought out information to get his lumber graded. He could mill out his lumber, then call the local grading authority,Maritime Lumber Bureau  (MLB) who would send a grader for $500 a day plus expenses. But his production and building method made this expensive. He would saw some and then commence to building for a few days, then saw some more. It then came to him, that he should get his qualifications to grade for himself. He took the grading course for $450 plus tax and now can grade his own lumber. The course gave him a workbook and the "grading bible" to which he can reference if the brain gets stuck. ;)  However, we was told the mill has to be stationary on a permanent site. In other words, the grade stamp pertains to that mill, where it sits and is on the registry with the MLB and he himself has a grading license. He got different stamps made up for grading green, rough, S-P-F grades 1,2,3 and stud grade, also structural light framing, joists and plank lumber.  If he wants to grade dried or surfaced or both, from 1 to 4 inches thick any width, he just needs the proper stamp. The MLB is quite emphatic about care and security of those stamps and suggested storage under lock and key on the mill property and only handled by himself. They can not be taken off the mill site and used to grade mark lumber from another mill. However, he is qualified to grade lumber for other mills, using their stamps as long as the grading falls within his qualifications as mentioned above. The grading inspectors come on a monthly basis to check the grading to ensure the rules are followed. He admits he doesn't have enough lumber in his operations at any time for a realistic grading audit.

[Source: Atlantic Forestry Review, January 2010 issue]
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

stonebroke


sigidi

Here in Oz, I'm a qualified grader.

We have similar rules with construction; our Building Code of Australia (BCA) states all timber used in domestic construction is to be graded so for me to build our house https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41658.0.html I had to go and get qualified.

My qualification involved a 3 day course, about 35% sit down classroom time and 65% practical time in a timber yard. With this qualification I am qualified to grade hardwood timber anywhere in Australia, cut by me or by others. It doesn't limit my mill to any specific location, it doesn't limit me to anything other than our hardwoods.
Always willing to help - Allan

SwampDonkey

I have to make one correction the article mentioned in relation to what sigidi  says about moving the mill. deGraaf can move his mill and stamps provided he gives the MLB notice ahead of time with the new location and the duration it will be there milling. He has to inform them again when the mill is moved back home. The article does mention that the MLB preferred it to remain stationary. Apparently, lumber can be brought to his mill site and graded for others as well. The article was a bit confusing the way it was pieced together. But anyway, the stamps stay with the mill, can't take the stamps over to the neighbor's mill.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ARKANSAWYER

Well it looks like our Brothers north of the Border have gotten it right.  Now why can't the SPIB do that?   ???

  So I just made my own stamp.  A bit of a rebel.




ARKANSAWYER

Meadows Miller

Gday

Ive had my Graders tickets for both H/W % Softwood since i was 18yo and it dosnt matter where the hell im sawing or grading the timber  ;) ;D 8)
Like ive said afew times before i reckon its a load of B.S that the Country who almost every one elses grading standards are based on makes it so bloody hard for smaller operators to grade their timber   :o :) ??? ??? ::) ::)

Regards Chris
4TH Generation Timbergetter

Coon

It would definately be nice to have these tickets here.  I don't have a clue where to get contact info or who to talk to towards getting certified.  Being on the prairies I don't know if they even hold the courses here.  ???

Brad.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Coon on January 27, 2010, 03:38:36 PM
It would definately be nice to have these tickets here.  I don't have a clue where to get contact info or who to talk to towards getting certified.  Being on the prairies I don't know if they even hold the courses here.  ???

Brad.


Central Forest Products Association Inc.
Box 1169, Hudson Bay, Saskatchewan S0E 0Y0
Tel: (306) 865-2595 Fax: (306) 865-2621
Email: cfpa@sasktel.net



National Lumber Grades Authority members and grade stamp logos

Canadian Lumber Standards Accreditation Board
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

nas

Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
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6 Kids

Coon

Thanks Donk.  I will have to email them to see when and where and how much they charge for the grading tickets. 

I have a number of buildings that I could be building in town here but.... all lumber in town must be graded lumber for insurance purposes.  Everything is still up in the air as to whether I can use ungraded beams here or not.  I talked to town office people about this and as far as I am concerned I may as well have been beating a dead horse....  They have no clue about anything.  I also talked to some of the local contractors around here about using these beams as well.  As far as they are concerned they would rather use them before laminated I beams.  I have some foundation issues with my house here that I want to address this spring/summer.  The beams are only 28 ft long 8x10's. 

Brad.

Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

zopi

Quote from: ARKANSAWYER on January 26, 2010, 06:30:23 PM
Well it looks like our Brothers north of the Border have gotten it right.  Now why can't the SPIB do that?   ???

  So I just made my own stamp.  A bit of a rebel.






I'm like ARKY..I still want someone to demonstrate what law it is that says I can't...

I'm not really worried about lliability, as I don't intend to sell structural lumber..but I *DanG sure want to use my own lumber for my buildings.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

beenthere

Prolly the "law" boils down to the local government (here it is the Township) that adopts a building code. Rather than go to the trouble and expense of creating their own, they adopt whatever the County has, who has adopted the States, and on up the line. Prolly stops at the state level most times.

As to who puts the codes together..they are boards and panels and committees at various levels of commerce. Almost to the point that you cannot really blame anyone...they all remain "out of the loop".
The inspector is only following the adopted building code that says the lumber must be stamped. If Arky's stamp is good enough for them, that works. If on the other hand, the stamp must be some Canadian or USA or other country's lumber grades (usually referring to stress grades for structural use of lumber), then some official stamping may be required.

Each and everyone along the line are trying to stay out of being in line of any liability fire. Something breaks, someone gets hurt, someone sues, then the insurance company (if they paid) goes looking for the weak link in the chain of events that led to that accident.

I've cited an example before, of a sawmill that cut a log into planks. The planks were sold and resold until they ended up on a scaffolding which after several years failed. A worker was hurt, the insurance company paid, and then went looking for someone who wasn't protected by little stickers and stamps on their product. The scaffold's steel cross member failed under the plank. It was determined that the plank was sawn green (naturally that would be the case) and there was a 1-inch knot that stayed the same length while the rest of the plank dried over time, and shrank to a smaller dimension in thickness. Experts claimed it was this extended knot that concentrated the load on the plank at one spot on the steel cross member of the scaffold, causing the steel to fail. They couldn't touch the scaffold company, so they went looking for the sawmill that sawed the plank, and tracked them down. The sawmill owner/company paid the suit because he didn't have any built-in protection against liability.
Very scary to even think of such a stretch to find someone to blame. I've no idea if the current system of grading stamps would have protected the sawmill or not. But possibly if the plank was stamped with a grade (likely would have been worn off by the time of an accident) when purchased as scaffold plank, then the courts poking around for someone to pay wouldn't have traced it back to the sawmill.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Coon

The only info I have found is that Saskatchewan does not have it's own separate building codes.  We follow the Canadian Building Codes.  I don't have a copy of the building code book due to money.  Any of the publications I have found you have to buy.  Seems kinda odd that they want us to follow building codes but yet they charge you to even get the info to study.  Guess it's just like all the other bureacracy.....

Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

ARKANSAWYER


  The SPIB is set up under the PS-20 that was the Rule of Law that the Gov set up to standarize the lumber industry.  It is a good thing.  Then large manufactors used it to cut out the little guy in the guise of controling the quality of market.  They allow a 5% below grade.  Only recourse if a board is below grade is a replacement board of grade quality.  If a board fails it is often not the board's fault from time of manufactor and the builder/user should have noticed any said defects.
  My stamp follows the rules of grade set down by the SPIB and PS-20.  I will replace any board should it fall below grade (never happen as we have a 0% tolerance policy on grade defects) and like the SPIB accept no libility for any product or it's use or mis-use.  Out of the quarter million bdft of SYP I produce each year only about 20% needs grade stamped.  Siding, flooring and such does not require a grade stamp.  Hardwoods allow you to go to school and become a grader but the softwood Giants do not want to play.

ARKANSAWYER

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