log length firewood

celliott · January 23, 2010, 02:19:19 PM

Hello, I am wondering what the difference between cords log lenght VS cords cut, split, and stacked. For example, If I was to buy 5 cords log length firewood, how much will I end up with after it is cut and split and stacked? Is there a general rule, or formula?
Thanks ahead of time,
Chris

Jamie_C · January 23, 2010, 05:55:12 PM

Around here (Nova Scotia) it is generally accepted that 1 cord of 8' will yield between 95 & 105 cubic feet of wood when processed into stovewood lengths (16"). In other words if you buy 5 cords of 8' you should end up with about 4 cords of stovewood.

SwampDonkey · January 23, 2010, 06:29:14 PM

Around here, if I buy 5 cords of tree length on scale, I get 5 cords, usually a bit more when bucked, as most loggers top up a little. But I'm usually within 3 or 4 wheel barrow loads. That's the law in these parts, that I get my 5 cords. Now I'm not sure I understood your question. Are you buying wood by the ton and cutting for firewood cords? Two different scales in this case, but if you bought 20 ton, you should have 20 ton when dumped in your yard.

The 100 ft³ figure is a cunit, 100 ft³ of solid wood, without the air, in 1 cord (128 ft³).

Jamie_C · January 23, 2010, 06:49:09 PM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 23, 2010, 06:29:14 PM
Around here, if I buy 5 cords of tree length on scale, I get 5 cords, usually a bit more when bucked, as most loggers top up a little. But I'm usually within 3 or 4 wheel barrow loads. That's the law in these parts, that I get my 5 cords. Now I'm not sure I understood your question. Are you buying wood by the ton and cutting for firewood cords? Two different scales in this case, but if you bought 20 ton, you should have 20 ton when dumped in your yard.

The 100 ft³ figure is a cunit, 100 ft³ of solid wood, without the air, in 1 cord (128 ft³).

SwampDonkey, around here the law is pretty much the same as it is in NB. However if you buy 15 cords of 8' wood and process it into 16" stovewood you will not end up with 15 cords of stovewood. Many people don't realize that there is shrinkage when you cut up the wood because the smaller pieces pack together tighter than the longer lengths do and you lose some fibre to the sawdust pile. According to the NS Scalers manual a cord of 8' hardwood when processed into firewood "should" yield between 95 & 105 stacked cubic feet of wood. The cunit was very rarely used around here, mostly a JDI method of confusing the contractors.

Back when being a Licensed Primary Forest Products Scaler here in NS we used to end up in the middle of these types of disagreements all the time. If you buy 5 cords of stovewood length firewood then by law you must receive 5 cords of wood. However if you buy a genuine 5 cords of long length (8' or random length) and process it then you are not required to yield 5 cords of firewood as you have changed the physical properties of the product. Think along the lines of buying cereal not by weight but by cubic volume, take the bag out of the box and stomp on it repeatedly, now measure the cubic volume and it will not be the same as the physical properties of the cereal have been changed.

If you are buying wood by the tonne/ton then you can either really gain or really lose on cord scale depending on species composition and how long it has been sitting at roadside.

SwampDonkey · January 23, 2010, 07:01:36 PM

I've bought it tree length green a few times. I knew it was fresh cut because I knew exactly when and where it was cut. As I said before, the logger tops up the load to make your cordage come out. I've never been disappointed in the scale. I follow what your saying though, and makes perfect sense from a legal stand point. I'm not confused on the bucking and shrinking part and loss to sawdust. That part is just common sense. Most people know it too. What gets their goat is if they don't get their cordage because the logger didn't top up to account for bucking and shrinkage (if it's old wood).

Cunits were widely used here and one local mill still buys by the cunit, H J Crabbe. But 100 ft³ of solid wood is the conversion from cords. That's even better scale than some US conversions. I've seen 85 ft³ being used on this forum. Also, NB scale gives more footage than Doyle. It's all over the map. ;)

SwampDonkey · January 24, 2010, 05:18:48 AM

Oh, and I was just adding a note here on shrinkage in volume. Volume doesn't change until below FSP (fibre saturation point) at which point the free water is gone and you start loosing bound water. Around the 30 % MC mark. With oak, rock maple, yellow birch, and beech, shrinkage in volume is 17 % from FSP to oven dry. Most well seasoned firewood is 16%-20% MC, so volumetric shrinkage of 5-8% is expected at most.

celliott · January 24, 2010, 11:19:33 AM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 23, 2010, 06:29:14 PM
Around here, if I buy 5 cords of tree length on scale, I get 5 cords, usually a bit more when bucked, as most loggers top up a little. But I'm usually within 3 or 4 wheel barrow loads. That's the law in these parts, that I get my 5 cords. Now I'm not sure I understood your question. Are you buying wood by the ton and cutting for firewood cords? Two different scales in this case, but if you bought 20 ton, you should have 20 ton when dumped in your yard.

The 100 ft³ figure is a cunit, 100 ft³ of solid wood, without the air, in 1 cord (128 ft³).

No, not buying by the ton. I was curious as to, if you got a measured 5 cords log length, not topped off, what would you come out with(approximately) bucked and split?

SwampDonkey · January 24, 2010, 11:23:28 AM

No you wouldn't, probably similar to what Jamie posted, or in the ball park, 4 cords.

celliott · January 24, 2010, 11:25:35 AM

Quote from: Jamie_C on January 23, 2010, 05:55:12 PM
Around here (Nova Scotia) it is generally accepted that 1 cord of 8' will yield between 95 & 105 cubic feet of wood when processed into stovewood lengths (16"). In other words if you buy 5 cords of 8' you should end up with about 4 cords of stovewood.

I think this answers my question, thank you. If I was to buy log length, I would buy from somebody I know, and trust. If I was to come up short, then I am sure I could get the difference made up, and thanks swampdonkey, I was just going to say that he answered my question, but you beat me to it. Your information was helpful also.
Thanks again,
Chris

Gary_C · January 24, 2010, 11:58:42 AM

Check this out for rules here in Minnesota.

How to Buy Firewood

If the wood is sawed and split, a cord is 120 cubic feet when ranked, and 175 cubic feet when thrown loosely into a truck.

4genlgr · January 25, 2010, 07:24:42 AM

it would be interesting to know the methodology used to determine these various numbers
so many different ways to get to 4x4x8. when i started in the woods it was a stack of 4 foot long wood 8 feet long 4 feet high. swamp donkey is using 8 footlong wood in a 4x4 foot stack cut that pile in half and it will shrink and not because of sawdust missing the wood will lay together better. that's why truckers add to the load with tree lenght wood to make upfor the way the wood lays together

SwampDonkey · January 25, 2010, 07:36:07 AM

Yes, I recognize that fact. But, the fact of not knowing how fresh the wood was, was brought up in the discussion. Wood shrinks when it dries. By summers end your green 4 cords all split and piled in January is now 25-30 ft³ less in October. Same for logs scaled to 4 cords on the yard and sit there for months before hauling on same scale. ;)

4genlgr · January 25, 2010, 09:18:09 AM

i watch, in amazment, that happen to some split wood i piled up a couple of years ago
it was in a thrown pile all winter , come spring i piled it in ranks east and west, the ends facing north and south 16inch wood piled in 10-12 foot rows, spaced apart' 4'high
by june they were leaning and in july the one that got the most sun fell over just from the shrinkage on hte south facing side
i realized what had happened but it still was a "hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm"

g_man · January 26, 2010, 07:29:05 PM

I believe the official (legal) definition of a cord of wood is:
"A pile of logs 8' long, 4' wide, and 4' tall in a tight pile."
What you get after it is processed is what you get.
And depends on lots of things we already know about.
The guy buying wood cut, split, and stacked doesnt
understand this so we make some reasonable rules of
thumb to live buy.
It gets confusing because the rules of thumb vary from
place to place and sometimes depend on what you can
get away with.

Jamie_C · January 26, 2010, 07:42:53 PM

here the legal definition of a cord is a pile of wood measuring 128 cubic feet, the actual dimensions of L*W*H don't matter as long as the cubic volume works out to the 128 cubic feet.

SwampDonkey · January 27, 2010, 06:16:35 AM

For Canada, Measurement Canada is the national authority under the Weights and Measures Regulation. As Jamie said, it only matters that there is 128 ft³ neatly stacked with even length wood.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/mc-mc.nsf/eng/lm03963.html

rick f · February 08, 2010, 06:46:50 AM

here's a page from the ext. service here in Maine.

http://www.umext.maine.edu/piscataquis/gardening/2005/vol3iss11/firewood.htm

Would you say this was close?

Pullinchips · February 15, 2010, 09:18:39 PM

The quick smart @$$ answer is 5 cords cut and stacked . Its like how much weighs more a pound of lead or pound of feathers. A cord like others have said is 4x4x8ft, yea there is air space things on solid wood vs air space like those others have pointed out and this varies generally locally and by species