Added Hydrolic Feed and it works

[robnrob2]

Some time back I wanted to add a power feed to the mill but didnt have lots of room for hydrolic and electric seem to be the way ta go, but after lots of info on a post thats burried somehwere way back, I managed to do some mods, to the mill, like cutting off the big barrel muffler and adding 2 smaller, dual now,,that gave me room to add the pump,, so on and so fourth,, I got everthing on and am pleased with it,, the results I have discovered is a very, very smooth cut, smoother then trying to push manual, or with my hand crank feed, the smmoth, consistant power of the hydrolic motor, is amazing, very impressed,, I am starting to get used to it, there is no feel for the cut,, now I listen more to the tone of the motor, as I'm making the cut, but the results are impresseve, like a different machine,,, I think I can now start to consintrate on a board drag back system.




the pump belted up here,,




the spool valve to hydrolic motor plumbed up,, By pulling down on a handle I can desengage the hydrolic and engage a manual hand crank feed, OR,, move the carriage w/o the engine  running .





the filter at the top there,, and the hydrolic tank is directly infront of the main frame above the sawhead.

[bandmiller2]

Your right Rob,hydraulics are hard to beat on a mill.Can you adjust the feed speed??if not a simple solution,and a cheap one, is the needle valve speed control you have a knob to adjust the feed speed and their is a check valve to allow full speed gigback.Simple matter to adjust for different logs.My own mill I have an engine driven pump for feed and sawhead up and down.I also have a electric motor driven pump in the base for the two plain clamp/turner that I can switch off when not being used.Frank C.

[DanG]

Nice work, Rob!  You will soon grow accustomed to sawing by sound rather than feel.  I've never had anything but hydrostatic feed, and wouldn't know what to feel for, anyway. : :D

[fishpharmer]

Rob, outstanding! 

[Coalsmoke]

That's great Rob. can you tell me about the mill. What is it's hp? What I'm wondering is if you are noticing a loss in cutting power driving that pump.

[scrout]

Robrob,
Nice, I want to do the exact same thing.
Can you tell us what pump, motor (rpm is slow right?), spool you used?
And what is your normal feed rate?
Carriage lift arrangement?

Right now I use an HF $50 winch with manual drag back.
Works pretty good, but only two speeds, single line pull and double line pull.
Thanks.

[robnrob2]

Your right Rob,hydraulics are hard ta beat on a mill.Can ya adjust da feed speed??if not a simple solution,and a cheap one, is da needle valve speed control ya have a knob ta adjust da feed speed and their is a check valve ta allow full speed gigback.Simple matter ta adjust for different logs.My own mill I have an engine driven pump for feed and sawhead up and down.I also have a electric motor driven pump in da base for da two plain clamp/turner dat I can switch off when not being used.Frank C.

Well I purchased this spool valve from surplus center along with the Hydolic Charlynn motor, and its made for the motor,,, so ifn ya push on the stick a lil, it only goes a lil,, push a lot and it goes faster then you'd wanna cut, sept maybe edging a few boards,, funny tho,, its foward or reverse is the same speed weather the motor be idling, or at 3,700rpm,, But  I think I,m gonna modify the make it go stick, with a limiter kanob that I can turn in to limit speed foward, or back it out to give me more speed ifn I need it,,the other day I was workin with it, sawing, and kicked or triped on somethin, and when I did I pushed on the stick and it did learch in the log..

dat's great Rob. can ya tell dis yooper about da mill. What is it's hp? What I'm wondering is if ya are noticing a loss in cutting power driving dat pump.

The mill now has a 38hp Kohler,, the biggest I could cram in it, and it does just fit, so no I dont really feel any HP loss,, if idling and iIm moving the carriage back and fourth I can hear the motor just slightly idle down a pinch, but only on the 1st impulse of pushin the stick, then it comes right back up to bout 700rpm,,,
I have a 4" sheeve on the motor crank, thats the smallest I could get for the 1 7/16" pto, and a 6" on the pump,, and I do belive I am gonna change that out to a 8" only because its handling the 6' w/o any problems, and the carriage moves the same speed, idling or full throttle,,

Robrob,
Nice, I want ta do da exact same thing.
Can ya tell us what pump, motor (rpm is slow right?), spool ya used?
And what is your normal feed rate?
Carriage lift arrangement?

Right now I use an HF $50 winch wit manual drag back.
Works pretty good, but only two speeds, single line pull and double line pull.
Thanks.

Well in the surplus center website you'll see the spool valves, and they splain which ones work Hyd motors,, Ya want one w/o a detent ,, I guess that means it wont stay put where ya leave it and its variable flow, I think,,Corect me ifn I'm wrong ya'll,, but I did a lot of readin and studyin.. it was like 89 dallors,, the motor is there smallest like 700rpm, 4.3ci and about 115 dallors,, now the pump, my son got for me out of one of the school busses in the Bone Yard,, either a 7.3L or a 9.3L  engine,, the pump actually pluged into the engine block, was gear driven, prolly off the cam somewhere,, I was lucky there, it pumped CCW, I pulled the gear and it had a keyed 5/8" shaft, it had an unsealed exposed bearing there, so I made a tight fittin cover plate, drilled and tapped, packed it with quality grease and sealed it up,,, but I do belive one like it for said application could be bought for round ahundred dalla,, all said and done I got just under $400 in it which includes hose's, fittins, and stuff,, the fittins is where ya get nickel & dimed,,
Well the lift is done with a quality 12V motor, I only need it to go one way,, it is actuated when I pull the brake release lever just a lil the head drops via gravity, and of course its gotta over come the resistance of the motor which turns it backwards,, relase the brake it all stops,, pull on the brake lever a bit more and it pushes a horn/starter button, and the motor pulls it up,,
I have studdied the winch deal for raising and lowering, and its not a bad design.. Hudson uses that idea,,

Most the time I will copy er download photos, and zoom in or blowthem up to study how its done or get ideas,,

[customdave]

Nice work! I'll bet that beats pushin  all day . Looks real good , have fun & play safe

                                     8)









                                                            Dave

[Jasperfield]

It's always nice to think something through, find parts, fabricate, and have it operate as planned.


Good work. I know you're pleased.

[robnrob2]

Well Sawmilling is my main line of income, and may never be, I dunno,, but I sure enjoy the Heck out of it,, It does suppliment tho,, I sell Appaleachiean Harfdwoods, comes to me by a distributor,, I just bet there a some on this forum who mill it,, I sell southern stock I mill,, and build entertainment centers, furniture, and the like. One Day I'd like to give up the building line and just sell the hardwoods and play with the mill,, I''m always looking for ways to increase the production.

[bandmiller2]

Rob,as you said if you push the feed lever all the way it feeds faster than you need.Thats the perfect setup for that needle valve speed control,you just add it to the motor feed hose, handy so you can adjust it.On my mill I used a cable feed several wraps around a flat drum on the motor shaft.My spool valve will detent [what i had] so I put stops at each end to kick it out of gear.I can set it cutting then move slabs or whatever.Frank C.

[robnrob2]

I just wanted to follow-up with this foward speed limiter I made,, jsut a piece of 3/8" X 1" flat-bar,{ Love Flat bar}, I cut and ground a portion of it to fit within the spool valve casting, and then came up several inches, and over enough to catch my adjusting bolt.
  I cut the joy-stick handle in two, then had my son Tig it back together with a 3/8' nut inline,
aqnd then threaded in my handle and bolt,,, now as I'm milling, different widths of logs, I can dial in the best and fastest possible cutting consistancy.
I can still return home as fast it it will go.

[beenthere]

robnrob2
Clever design.  Is the 1" coil spring behind the handle part of the limiter control?

[sawwood]

Robert how did you come up with the right size gear to use on the hyd motor to pull
the carrage ? We are thinking about doing this to our Norwood mill. Will find a pump
to mount on the honda motor and may have to buy a double grove clutch to drive the
pump. Should help out not haveing to push and pull the carrage.

Sawwood

[Magicman]

That is a very clever design to control your forward speed....

[bandmiller2]

Rob,you "done" the same thing as the needle valve cheap,good work.Frank C.

[coastlogger]

I like it Rob,great idea having the drive sprocket lift off the chain so you can go manual.
On my power feed I bought a flow control (Princess Auto)which has a lever for adjusting speed,made an extension to the lever out of a 460 pushrod, and find I have "infinite"speed control. I, like you, find the power feed a joy AND an opportunity to do odd jobs like stack slabs, not to mention check how high the backstops are set.....
On my previous M14 I converted to hyd feed also. I had a valve like yours with some regulating ability, mounted about ankle level and a 3 foot chunk of rebar welded to control handle.This was my carriage control. One day I drove a 10 inch spike into the wood mill frame just above the valve to help limit forward speed. The handle came up against it you see.Anyhow this worked wonderfully for years.The spike would stop the valve travel at a nice slow carriage speed. If I was edging etc, by pushing harder on the long handle it would spring the spike/wood and Id have a faster feed speed for that cut. Periodically things would get out of adjustment and some fine tuning with boot or a hammer set things right..
Again,nice job Rob
By the way how do you manage to get everything PAINTED so nice? My mods seem to go into production prior to any thought of painting
clgr

[robnrob2]

robnrob2
Clever design.  Is the 1" coil spring behind the handle part of the limiter control?

No the coil spring you see there is the break on the head up-n-down,, a clearer picture of it further up,, this mill is built like a Cooks Wannabe,, just not as heavy,,

Robert how did you come up with the right size gear to use on the hyd motor to pull
the carrage ?

Sawwood

I bought the smallest gear I could for he motor, was a 12 er 13 tooth, gear, just over 2"dia,, and I was worried it was gonna be to fast,, NOT,, it was fine, sept I wanted more return home speed, so I ordered and installed a 16 tooth gear, that is a pinch over 2.75", which I'm happy with the get home speed now,,,,

By the way how do you manage to get everything PAINTED so nice? My mods seem to go into production prior to any thought of painting
clgr

Well while stuff is hot, I grab my spray bomb and shoot it,, dries fast and I can isntall fast,,,

Thanks guys,,
didnt get much sleep as I was designing my Board drag back design,, I'll prolly be doin a search here in a few to come up with ideas,,

[bandmiller2]

Rob,on my mill I left the detent in the valve with a movable stop to kick it out at the end,most of those valves can be modified easily with a kit.I used your valve limiting principal when I put a front end loader on my JD 60 ,loader would go down too fast,not good with a heavy log.I get as much enjoyment building as using.Good idea painting as soon as your done outherwise you never seem to get to it.Frank C.

[Handy Andy]

  Have read the Pineywood  homemade hydraulic thread, and wondered if you could run this feed with Piney's 2 hp electric motor.  You wouldn't be using the log clamp turner the same time as sawing, so looks like it might be possible.  Any comments?

[bandmiller2]

Handy,sure  2hp is plenty it takes very little power to run a carriage ,enough for turners and toeboards too. Frank C.

[sdunston]

Good job, Welcome to the club of hydrolic fever 8) 8) 8)
Sam

[pineywoods]

  Have read the Pineywood  homemade hydraulic thread, and wondered if you could run this feed with Piney's 2 hp electric motor.  You wouldn't be using the log clamp turner the same time as sawing, so looks like it might be possible.  Any comments?

The thought has crossed my mind a few times. If the electric feed on my mizer ever quits (Dang things seem to run forever), I just might get serious about hydraulic feed...

[Larry]

I'm curious...a typical hardwood butt log might be 14" on the small end and 24" on the big end.  If I saw into the small end first, as the carriage advances down the log it will slow as the cutting becomes tougher.  Works well with an electric feed and I don't stall the motor.  So...with a hydraulic feed will the carriage slow as the cutting becomes tougher?

[coastlogger]

Hydraulic will if rigged right give you infinite speed control but you have to do the controlling.  ,Electric feed, I THINK,by its nature, naturally slows up when resistance gets harder. Think of the starter in an(old) car if you try to roll the car ahead on the starter while  wheels are in gear. Starter goes way slower due to extra load.This is a plus for electric feed but hydraulic does work extremely well as a feed system.You just back off a bit on the flow when it starts to labour in the cut.
clgr