iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

hand-sharpening w/ file & guide

Started by tstex, January 06, 2010, 05:51:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tstex

Gemnii wrote"

"I'm not certain what you mean about "Take chain to shop every 3-4 uses". 
I've been told they charge up to $10 a chain around here for sharpening."


There is a Stilh dealership 10 miles from here where they sharpen chains.  Only two people allowed to do so:  the owner and part owner thats been there for 25 yrs.  I asked to go look at their set-up and he explained how all the angles are set, how to and how not too/etc, had a bunch of calipers too...I even brought in a chain one time and he said, "you can buy your chain from me or anyone else, your choice, but this chain is beyond sharpening"...BTW, they charge $4/chain off, $6 on...I would not pay $10/chain either and I do not see too much difference bewteen .20 & .19/link and postage?...was this a typo?


"As far as sharpening after every use, depends on how much it was used, how fine the chips are compared to a new chain.  But I prefer to sharpen after every "significant" use."

You make a good point here. I should have better qualified the duration of my chain-saw usage each frequency.  When i fire-her-up, it is usually a good long session because I can only work on the weekends and save the work up for a good work-out.  That is, until a 70MPH microburst drops a scaffolding branch on the chain-link fence and flattens it to the ground.  The diameter of the s-branch was 22-26"...nice time.


It was 12-13 here this morning [9 yesterday morning] but the woodburning stove had the farm house in the mid-high 70's...nothing burns better than aged, hard oak.  Maybe cutting this type of wood [which i have seen spark within 3-4 minutes of cutting with a brand new stihl chain and absolutely no foreign materials or debris] is what makes these chains dull so fast...this is why I needed to sharpen much more often...the oak burns long, blue flame and puts off heat like coal.   ;)

Thank you again gentlemen for your feedback.

Be Safe,
tstex

moonhill

Most of my chains are filed down to a nub, some the last bit of the tooth is bent or broken.  At that point I know it is done.  It is still cutting sweet up till that point.  I often will say to myself to save that chain I may need it to do some grubbing.  I have never changed a chain out for some dirty work, I don't know why I keep the chains, they are all over the place.  I should collect them in a five gallon bucket and sell for scrap.   

I posted this a while back, I file with my bar pointing up.  I would think this could be done in a vise as well. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

bandmiller2

Tim,aint it the truth I've got old chains everywhere and can't bring myself to throw em,I've never used my saws for a ditch witch.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

OneWithWood

One of the things I learned in the cutter training classes (GOL) was that all chains need to be touched up with a hand file when new out-of-the-box or coming off the grinder.
Once you have used a saw with a truly sharp chain you will understand and never go out in the field without a file or two or put on a chain that has been through a grinder without touching it up with a few quality strokes.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

moonhill

I was poking around with a poker in the wood stove and found a warn out chain is the hot coals.  Must have been in the sawdust on the floor. 

When I am cutting young trees on the blueberry field I want the stub as close to the ground as possible.  One example of grubbing. 

Tim
This is a test, please stand by...

tstex

Guys,

One last thing, and I am sure some of you have thought of this already.

I am determined to get this hand file sharpening down and since the Stilh guide I have doesn't allow me to use the full length of the file during strokes, I came up with a "guide board".

What i did was draw a straight/bolded line down a 3/4" piece of plywood where I can comfortably access all angles of my chainsaw and it is stabilized.  I then took the guide and lined up the proper angle w/ the bolded line and drew a 30 degree angle about every inch for sharpening one side of the chain; then I did this the other way to get the angle back to sharpen the other chain...I simply put the bar on the straight bolded/line with a movable block on the end to support the end of the bar.  Now the bar/chain is stable w/ the proper angle that shows me how I need to run the file...Then I go back the other way and have the lines below to get the angle on the other teeth...really works well.  When i do this enough, I feel I will intuitively get the angles down...does this make sense?

On some of my 029 chains, the angles are on the teeth, but not on my 023 or my extension....anyway, thought if you were going to do some "file sharpening in the shop", the template would help those that are not a pro at this yet.

Be safe,
tstex

ickirby

Quote from: tstex on January 11, 2010, 07:25:45 PM
What i did was draw a straight/bolded line down a 3/4" piece of plywood where I can comfortably access all angles of my chainsaw and it is stabilized.  I then took the guide and lined up the proper angle w/ the bolded line and drew a 30 degree angle about every inch for sharpening one side of the chain; then I did this the other way to get the angle back to sharpen the other chain...I simply put the bar on the straight bolded/line with a movable block on the end to support the end of the bar.  Now the bar/chain is stable w/ the proper angle that shows me how I need to run the file...Then I go back the other way and have the lines below to get the angle on the other teeth...really works well.  When i do this enough, I feel I will intuitively get the angles down...does this make sense?

Your method sounds like it could very well work but one thing to caution you on is making sure that your block allows you to have the proper depth control of your file.  I may not quite understand your description so if I'm wrong just ignore me.

The depth of your file in the gullet of the tooth will determine your top plate cutting angle.  This angle will effect how fast your chain will cut but if you get it too sharp (narrow angle / deep file depth) then the chain will dull very quickly and damage very easily in dirty conditions.  [edit]Also I see a lot of people who think they file very well free hand that file too deeply and end up damaging the tie straps (small connector links of the chain) on their chain and incidentally I have seen a couple of these weakened tie straps break.[/edit]

I would recommend that you keep using the Stihl file guide and if you don't get used to it very soon just try a few different styles of file guide until you find one that suits your needs better.  There are at least a half dozen different styles and I'm sure you'll find one you like.  I personally use the cheapeast and most easily accessible style to me the Oregon brand.

P.S. I don't want to anyone saying I am what I file with because I may be easy but I'm not cheap.


madhatte

Quote from: Rocky_J on January 07, 2010, 07:59:40 PM
I get the best results keeping the file level with the top plate of the chain. I usually don't buy Oregon chain but even with their chain I still file it level instead of their cockamamie 10 degree angle stuff. Angling it makes the cutting edge too blunt and the tooth doesn't have enough of a hook to cut fast.

I always understood that the 10 degree thing was just for round-filing square chisel chain, and was done in order to approximate a working corner?  On semi-chisel chain, I am unaware of any manufacturer recommending any angle other than flat.  Given the idea of approximating a working corner, wouldn't it be better to file into the cutter rather than out? 

tstex

The block(s) I use comfortably fits right under the end of the bar/chain and prevents the entire saw from moving down as I file the chain.

Regarding the file angle, [up/down], I believe many of the folks here stated to file even/flat/straight across the top was the way to go.  Even with a guide, IMHO, it would "stihl" [ :D] be a challenge to get the 10 degree angle.  However, with he guide I do see where the depth is easily managed.

Re guides, the Stihl guide i have only allows me to use the middle portion of the file, thus wasting not only the top and bottom, but also doens't allow me to make full strokes as I did with my template going freehand.  Is there a guide that allows you to use the full length of the file?

thx,
tstex

downeast

(shouting  ::) )
PFERD

For hand filing ( all real men do  :o    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm OK....."  ) get the Pferd tool. Repeat: get it. Get it now, that's an order. ;) It will keep the height correct, do the rakers, give you the new ( if it's a Stihl chain )chain feeling, and, save you $$$ going to the dealer for sharpening  :-\  . Just be sure to replace both files often---the round and the flat. smiley_tom_dizzyguy03

beenthere

Quote from: tstex on January 12, 2010, 08:43:25 AM
...........  Is there a guide that allows you to use the full length of the file?

Yes







And for all the comments about filing, be it by hand or by sharpening wheel.....one still has to know what the tooth should look like when it is filed correctly, and and then adjust the sharpening method to make it correct, if necessary.  Same goes if sending the chains out for sharpening. If they come back and are not right, don't want to have to find that out when in the woods cutting.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

farmer mark

Not sure if some one else covered this but.  On oregon chain box said file @ 10 degrees.  UNLESS using file guide then file flat across.  Not sure why but does seem to work better.  Only took about 5 years to read fine print on box

Al_Smith

Well this will probabley sound like nonsense but I just checked out three chains Oregon ,Arbor Pro and Stihl .

The Arbor pro and Stihl had thicker tops plates and a less square transition from top to side plate on the underside of the cutter than Oregon .In addition the side appeared to be slightly thicker near this transition than Oregon .

The Oregon as has been stated is designed to use a 10 degree up while the other two are straight . It would be my assumtion that possibley this 10 degree would form a better working corner on that slightly different chain design .

One must keep in mind the side of the cutter is what does the work and the top plate removes the chip but the key to it all lies in the corner of the tooth .If that corner is not correct the chain will not cut as well as it should .

To reiterate from my own experiance a chain that's supposed to have a compound angle will cut okay straight .A chain that's supposed to be straight doesn't do well with a compond angle .One of lifes little lessons I learned along the way .

Thank You Sponsors!