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Logging story

Started by jim king, December 30, 2009, 02:17:58 PM

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jim king

Here is the first of a series of short stories I just finished for the blog site of an old freind.  You will recognize some of the photos as while I was writing this series of stories and searching my photos I posted some of them here.  Hope you enjoy it.

Here is the link
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/?p=1053

Mr Mom

I read the first couple of lines to my son who is very concern about the rainforest.
Very good. I learned alot.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

motohed

Very interesting reading ,, The purple heartwood is beautiful . It also looks like they have adapted machines to do the sawing quite well .

ibseeker

Great article, Jim. Very informative, not too long and concise. It seems like an almost insurmountable problem, changing the culture of an entire area. I believe South America is overlooked and under appreciated. A friend just returned from Lima and he was very impressed with the city and the people.

Once again, thanks I enjoyed it.
Chuck
worn out poulan, Stihl 250SC, old machete and a bag of clues with a hole in the bottom

Ed

Excellent article!

Thanks for posting it Jim.

Ed

moonhill

Who is actually doing the logging, the local tribes people or imports?  I see in the article it appears to be the indigenous people, is this the majority.

At $19/month is this before or after they logged?  If before how much can they make when they switch to logging as a source of income?  If it is after it appears someone is ripping them off?

Who owns the land which is logged?

How did the locals survive in the past, before logging came along?

How is the lumber marketed?  Is there a middle man and who is he?

Tim

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Papa1stuff

You sure do ask a lot of questions smiley_biggrin01
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jim king

Tim:

I appreciate it when people ask questions like you have.  It helps me a lot to see what people understand and think.   Being in the Amazon forest for about 25 years in three countries and the tropical forest of Nigeria for 8 years I see the problem from this side and am not from the perspective that people like yourself have developed.

QuoteWho is actually doing the logging, the local tribes people or imports?  I see in the article it appears to be the indigenous people, is this the majority.
The logging here is done by the native rural people.  I have seen a few foreigners come and go   with no results what so ever ,  they all loose their money and go home.   This is another world and another culture and it is very difficult to drop in here and get a company up and running.    You will see on a lot of websites where  people  represent that they own sawmills , plywood factories and what ever in the Amazon and only do ecologically sustainable logging.   99% of this is pure lies.   I have seen in Brazil foreigners somehow involved in small flooring factories but not in mills.   It certainly is possible that someone owns a sawmill here but I have never seen one.

QuoteAt $19/month is this before or after they logged?  If before how much can they make when they switch to logging as a source of income?  If it is after it appears someone is ripping them off?
$19 a month is a typical rural family not doing logging or that matter doing anything but subsistence farming.   A family when logging will typically earn over $5000 a year.    When I was producing I had several families that earned considerably more.  The difference here is that I was producing high end value added wood fully processed and each piece packaged in shrink wrap.  I could afford to pay a decent price for the wood.  Generally speaking lumber produced here is rough sawn and possibly dried.  This does not allow for a profit and everyone from the logger to the exporter suffer.   
I bought  100 acre parcels for $2000 each from people who had received them free.  Then I would obtain all the documents and permits .  That process took several months and over a thousand dollars.   When finally I had enough paper in hand to work legally I hired the people I bought the land from and paid them $0.50 US a board foot for the species I needed from the land delivered to my processing operation.  A family with granny and the wife cooking and the rest working can easily cut 400 board feet of cants a day with a chainsaw and carry them out.  I advanced the money for a small chainsaw, gas, oil parts etc. plus the freight costs for the wood to come to town and discounted the advance when wood was delivered.   This worked out  very well and everyone was happy.   Now you can compare what I was able to pay for the raw material vs the typical export price for kiln drtied 4/4 Virola  the most exported wood which sells from $ 0.40 USD  to $ 0.80 USD  per bf put on the ship.

QuoteWho owns the land which is logged?
There are three types of logging land here.    Thousands of people have been given land with clear title by the last few governments.    These parcels are generally 40 hect.  or  about 100 acres.  The people then own the land but the government still owns the trees and the landowner needs a long series of approvals and paperwork to be able to start logging.  This list of hurdles is costly and undoable by the rural people with no income.    As a result they must continue the slash and burn existence farming in order to live.
The  second type is that most of the hundreds of villages have been given free title in the name of their community.   The community can apply for a logging permit.  These titles are from 1000 acres to 500,000 acres  .    Many times the government will do the paperwork and help with obtaining logging permission.    These have not worked out either .    At this time the government is starting a loan program to help the communities get into legal logging.   A loan to rural individuals who live in proper villages is being given by the government.   The uncollateralized  loans are in  excess of $25,000 each and will produce nothing.   This approach has been taken to promote farming of various crops and all have failed for various reasons.   The elections are coming so the loans  will be very popular and the recipients will all have new battery powered stereos and TV`s ,  a couple of new wives and a big hangover.
The third type is the concession program of 10,000 acres and up developed by one of the biggest Intl. eco groups and paid for by the US government.   Millions of  $$$$.   This was designed by people who knew nothing about the jungle or tropical forestry and it was and is a total failure not worth talking about.

QuoteHow did the locals survive in the past, before logging came along?
The locals as you have correctly said survived but did not live like people .   This is one of the major problems in these areas that breeds revolutionaries and social problems.  The problem is that  for the most part they continue surviving and as you may have seen we have recently had several uprisings and many dead .  This is another distinct problem.

QuoteHow is the lumber marketed?  Is there a middle man and who is he?
You could not really say the lumber is marketed.   It is bid on.  Buyers will come here from Mexico, China and the States and make an offer.   The language barrier is a real obstacle here for the locals who cannot speak directly to foreign buyers.   If you want to call the saw mills  middle men they would be it.    As no single  group can bring in enough logs to produce the quantity required to fill an order the mills accumulate logs and saw to make the volume required for an export order.

moonhill

Hi Jim, thanks for taking the time to answer those questions.  I wouldn't go so far to say I have already developed a perspective, it is more like I just go through my life with no knowledge of these people and you have opened my eyes a little further.  I suppose I am forming a perspective, just not sure what it looks like yet myself. 

I am on a side kick on fossil fuel, and am now reading another book titled "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight".  I must say I don't agree with everything in the book, some things I do.  It is also full of a number of topics which I have, of late, been following as well.  One is indigenous people, Older Cultures, and how they have been swept up by the "Young Culture", us, which was formed about 7000 years ago.   Anyway this topic was right down the alley and has perked my attention. 

It sounds like a complicated system of logging, I did see another posting of yours on the regulations you have to go through. 

Another point in the book I am reading was on these same people and he described a system of growing rotational crops in which the locals will dump down a circular area of trees radiating out like spokes on a wheel.  The trees are just left there, I think they burn the area and then plant crops, potatoes of some sort and other root crops, no, they plant first them burn with the root crops and the trees.  The cycle goes on for a number of years and and various crops then is let go.  Have you heard of this type of planting? 

How big of an area are the slash and burn projects which you speak of?

I kind of see the demise of the tropical rain forest similar to global warming, it is pushed to an extreme. 

Tim   
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jim king

Tim:

QuoteOne is indigenous people, Older Cultures, and how they have been swept up by the "Young Culture", us, which was formed about 7000 years

The indigenous problem is a serious problem here.  They say that they want to live as they have always lived but they need the government to give them food, schools that are not attended, generators, lights , internet etc. , you get the idea.

The oil companies pay all of them living near a producing area a very good wage but none ever show up to work as they are to busy protesting against the oil companies that pay them for nothing.  A few months ago there was a protest against the oil companies that were paying them up on the Ecuadorian border and a bunch of police were killed.  All the locals were acquitted due to incredible pressure and money from international groups..   SAD

I feel that if they want all the things that modern society has they should then act like civilized people .    One day some one was at the door and the secretary said some one wants to talk to you.  He turned out to be the chief of what is known to tourists as one of the most feared and uncontacted tribes in the Upper Amazon.  He came in and started talking in perfect English.  I ask where in the hell did you learn that English ?

He had been thru several universities in the States and Europe .   He opened his brief case and pulled all his titles (about half a million acres) and up to date logging permits.   A really decent guy but his land is at least a 15 day trip by boat and the costs of the wood for this reason would be prohibitive.

The world goes forward and it is best to be swept up with it.    We were.

QuoteThe trees are just left there, I think they burn the area and then plant crops, potatoes of some sort and other root crops, no, they plant first them burn with the root crops and the trees.   

The slash and burn areas per family group are about 2 acres every two to four years.  The crops are natural sweet potatoes of many colors from orange to purple,  yuca which is the staple and plantain a hard cooking banana.

As for global warming crises I guess the results are evident around the northen hemisphere this winter from the States to Europe and China.  Global warming and the Amazon dissapearing to me are nothing but big Eco Business, $$$$$$$$$$$.  To me people are taking themselves to serious when they think that we have the ability to change the worlds climate if in fact they actually believe what they are saying.

I love these discussions.  I enjoy being an opinionated old grouchy man in the jungle.

woodsteach

Thanks for posting that Jim,  I have sooooooo much to re---learn and here I am supposed to be educating our youth and I don't know a DanGed thing!! :o

woods
Brand X Swing Mill, JD 317 Skidloader, MS460 & 290, the best family a guy could ever dream of...all provided by God up above.  (with help from our banker ; ) )

pineywoods

Quote from: woodsteach on January 06, 2010, 10:35:51 AM
Thanks for posting that Jim,  I have sooooooo much to re---learn and here I am supposed to be educating our youth and I don't know a DanGed thing!! :o

woods

Well, look at it this way, you have sure come to a good place to learn....
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woodsteach

You got it right Piney! this place beat's college hands down. 8) 8)
Brand X Swing Mill, JD 317 Skidloader, MS460 & 290, the best family a guy could ever dream of...all provided by God up above.  (with help from our banker ; ) )

moonhill

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jim king

I have seen some of these articles also.  Many years ago I went down the main river and we walked in 6 hours to a similar site.   It had of course totally reforested its self and if you did not know it was there you would have problems to identify it.  This was one of the areas where the soil was altered  apparently  to produce crops of some kind .  The old hunter that took me there said he had found some artifacts in earlier visits and believed one was gold but I did not see them.   He was a professional hunter and he used this area as one of his hunting sites.  (We ate wild pig that night) .

I have no idea how large this area was  but it was considerable.   About all I could see were the  distinct raised straight lines in the floor of the jungle and one yet perfect corner.   The soil was totally different and the vegetation much thicker than normal.   It was obvious that it was not a transient slash and burn job but was a well planned permanent setting.    These kind of mysteries are abundant here and as there is so little known about the Amazon I am sure they will remain this way for centuries to come.

How did they deforest these large areas hundreds of years ago and who where they and where did they go ?¿   As far as I know the most of these areas are in the far outlying areas of the Amazon in the savannah type lands such as in the article you posted but there are some here in the heavy forest also.  These same savannah type lands with other soil types better than the tall wet jungle are what the Brazilians have cleared for  soybeans  .  These are the areas  causing the greenies to wet their pants.   It would be similar to the process that created the Midwest farmland area in the US .

About all I know for sure is that I saw something similar and slept on a raised portion overnight which is nothing but yet more than most people know. 

Down river where Brazil , Peru and Colombia meet there is an island that in August to October during low water  is visable .  We used to go there on Sundays and pick up fossils of all kinds.  We also found a "fossilized"  very detailed carved knife obviously made from bone.  The handle is about 3 inches long.  We also found several peices of pottery including a pot base with three legs .

Here is another link about these people
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cerickso/baures/Mann2.html

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