20" Bar too Big for MS260 ?

[downeast]

Happy New Year ! 
Over the too many years of cutting, I've been dropping down in chainsaw sizes from Stihl 440, 028, to 260.  :(  Still love my tiny 009 for climbing, trail work, light limbing. Most of our Downeast Maine woodlot is mixed 16" - 24", with an odd 36"+ oak left over from when the land was pasture. The harvests have been pulp ( when the market was OK ), some sawlogs, mostly 6-8 cords of firewood ( Red Maple, Paper Birch, Green/Brown Ash, some Red Oak ) each year.
The go to saw is now an MS260 with a slight muffler mod (3X the hole ). A 16" bar has worked fine for a few years without bogging in bores. But in cutting some > 30" oaks that also need the butts sliced or noodled for easier handling, the 16" bar is too short.
Anyone use a 20" bar on a 260 successfully ? Will it bog down when buried ?

[Rocky_J]

Back in the days before I upgraded, I used to run the Stihl 260s with 18" bars and I felt that was about as big as I could go comfortably. Then I discovered the Husky 346 which blew away the Stihl 260 in power. I still run 18" bars on the 346s in my stable and wouldn't want to put a 20" on them.

So in other words, no. I would not run a 20" on a Stihl 260 even with an additional 25% increase in power. Not only will it be too slow in the bigger cuts, you will also lose maneuverability and balance in the smaller stuff. If you like Stihl then consider upgrading to the 361 if you want to run a 20" bar all the time. Then keep the 260/16" as a backup and for smaller stuff. The 361 will be lighter than the old 028.

[downeast]

Thx Brian.

[fuzzybear]

I hate to disagree with you Rocky_J.   But I have been running a 20" bar for over a year now and have had no problems with it.  I use a skip tooth chain and it rips through 24" paper birch with no problems.  Just keep the bar clean.

[John Bartley]

I have an 026 with a 20" bar, and I find that as long as I keep it well sharpened it's "ok". I like the 18" bar better for balance, but for pure cutting power (like when you're blocking firewood), there's nothing like a big motor and a short bar. On an 026 that would be 16".

cheers

John

[peterc38]

I have an ms260 w/ 16" bar and .325 chain. I find the saw well balanced with this set up and it doesn't bog even in hardwood.

When I need more bar, I use a bigger saw. I have an ms361 w/ 20" bar and I am in the process of picking up a nice used 371zp too  8)

[windthrown]

My 026 woods ported with modified muffler will run a 20 inch bar no problem. 3/8 or .325.

Stock? 18 inch is probably the limit.

[joe_indi]

If you really want to run a 20" bar on your MS260, it is very much possible without any strain on the saw.
But, this calls for some major changes of the guide bar and saw chain.
First you got to understand that the MS260 is only a bit more powerful than the home user's MS250.
But it is a pro saw.
And its one of the few stock models(that I know of) which can rev to 14500rpm.
In the cut, with the right cutting attachment that saw can cut faster than its bigger siblings.
So, how is it done?
You will need a 20' guide bar of 0.50 gauge.The solid bar with replaceable bar nose is ideal(20" Rollomatic ES 1.3mm) Part Number. 3003 000 8621
The chain might not be available as a loop you will need to get it made from a reel.
Chain is 63PM of 72 drive links.
To run this chain you could get the 3/8" Picco Rim sprocket kit with 8 teeth sprocket recommended for the MS260. Part Number.1121 007 1040.

What you would  have would be a real mean but light machine which goes  like a hot knife through butter.

I have done this with a 026. Its a real beauty.

Joe

[windthrown]

I do not agree with some of the things you say here. I ran my 026s head to head against my 025s (before I sold my 1123 saws off), and there was no comparison. There is a point that the 025 falls off hard and fast where the 026 continues on. Similar with the difference between the 026 and the 361 in larger wood. I ran my 025s with Picco (low profile 3/8) as well; .325 bogged down too much on those saws. It is all but impossible to get Oregon mini-spline picco rim drives for the small format Stihl saws. I had to use spur sprockets. Picco bars and rims are REALLY expensive (if you can find them) compared to other size bars for the large format Stihl mounts, and rim drives are really spendy as well. The Picco setup for the large format Stihl saws was only designed and sold for the 024 saw (13.5k RPM max), and it was not designed to run on the more powerful 026 or larger saws. Stihl does not sell the picco bars with large formats in the US any more for this reason. LogoSol does sell them though. Picco is comonly used on chainsaw mill saws with larger size Stihl saws (361, 440, 460 and even 660s) and they are typically run with spur sprockets.

As for max RPM, from my Stihl manuals, all of these Stihl saws are set at 14k +/-500 RPM stock: 025/250, 023/230, 026/260, 361, 044/440. There are probably others that rev this high. The 260 will run a tad better with a .325 B&C over 3/8, but it is not noticable enough for me to keep .325 B&C and rims around. I am setting up one of my 026s to run picco with a rolomatic bar, rim and Picco chain. It will run faster, but you have to be careful running the light weight chains out there in the woods and on chainswaw mills. You are at or exceeding the limits of the chain design. 

[Skip]

Skip tooth chain is the way to go, less number of teeth equals less 'drag' to compensate for lack of hp and keeps up HP

[Al_Smith]

Skip chain is generally used on longer bars in the 30 plus inch range .

Now comes a slight problem .The MS 260/026 comes equipted with .325 chain which to the best of knowledge my isn't made in skip comfiguration nor for that matter does 3/8" lo profile  come in skip either .

Face it an 026 is a little saw it isn't an oak slayer .As such it would be okay for smaller stuff but of course would cut anything but that would just take longer is all .

In my opinion just keep a good sharp chain on it and it should do fine for a small saw .No matter what you do to it ,it will never be an 066 . :D

[fuzzybear]

.325 x .050 skip tooth is available thru Baileys.  It's what I use with 20" bar on my 260.

[WILDSAWMILL]

been running a 20" 325 chain on my 260 for 5 years i like it
true its not like my 064 but the 260 dont break my back

[windthrown]

Skip chain and rims are both good ways to change chain speed and torque. You can also mod the 260 to get significant gains in power.

One point of correction: the 260 comes with either the 3/8 standard ~or~ the .325 B&C&R. They can also run 3/8 low profile Picco. The 260 has the Stihl 3003 large format bar mount. You can run 3/8 standard skip or semi skip on a 20 inch bar (I have run that combination with good results). I have all but one of my 026s set up to run 3/8 standard chain, becasue that makes it easy to swap bars, chains and rims between all of my Stihl 3003 mount saws. You can also run .325 B&C&R on a 290/310/360/361 etc.

As said, the 260s are not 660s, and they are not falling or logging saws. They are great for thinning, firewood, and limbing though. Which also makes them a good firewood and arborist saw. I have a spare PNW side cover from my 066 with the large falling spikes. It also fits an 026. I will set up a 026 with that and a 32 inch bar, and show y'all what a gussied up 026 looks like. Lipstick on a pig never looked better.  No way the oiler would keep up with a bar that long... its just for show. The real usable limit for a 260 is a 20 inch bar. I tend to run mine with 16 or 18s.

[John Woodworth]

I've had my 026 which came with a 20" bar for 13 years now, what a wonderfull saw. I run full skip on it and as long as you respect it's limitations have had no problems at all.

[SawTroll]

Happy New Year ! 
Over the too many years of cutting, I've been dropping down in chainsaw sizes from Stihl 440, 028, to 260.  :(  Still love my tiny 009 for climbing, trail work, light limbing. Most of our Downeast Maine woodlot is mixed 16" - 24", with an odd 36"+ oak left over from when the land was pasture. The harvests have been pulp ( when the market was OK ), some sawlogs, mostly 6-8 cords of firewood ( Red Maple, Paper Birch, Green/Brown Ash, some Red Oak ) each year.
The go to saw is now an MS260 with a slight muffler mod (3X the hole ). A 16" bar has worked fine for a few years without bogging in bores. But in cutting some > 30" oaks that also need the butts sliced or noodled for easier handling, the 16" bar is too short.
Anyone use a 20" bar on a 260 successfully ? Will it bog down when buried ?

Really bad idea imo, get a MS361 before they all are gone!   ;)

[downeast]

Happy New Year ! 
Over the too many years of cutting, I've been dropping down in chainsaw sizes from Stihl 440, 028, to 260.  :(  Still love my tiny 009 for climbing, trail work, light limbing. Most of our Downeast Maine woodlot is mixed 16" - 24", with an odd 36"+ oak left over from when the land was pasture. The harvests have been pulp ( when the market was OK ), some sawlogs, mostly 6-8 cords of firewood ( Red Maple, Paper Birch, Green/Brown Ash, some Red Oak ) each year.
The go to saw is now an MS260 with a slight muffler mod (3X the hole ). A 16" bar has worked fine for a few years without bogging in bores. But in cutting some > 30" oaks that also need the butts sliced or noodled for easier handling, the 16" bar is too short.
Anyone use a 20" bar on a 260 successfully ? Will it bog down when buried ?

Really bad idea imo, get a MS361 before they all are gone!   ;)

Appreciate the advice. Unlike Norge, we have a slight economic downturn here. 
The $$$$ will go for more important items.....food, fuel, ...good single malt scotch.  ;D ;D

Why are so many of you in love with the 361 ?    And why, if it is the cure for all ills  ;) (power to weight, etc...) is Stihl discontinuing the model ?

[567paloggger]

most dealers have sales on the 361 a dealer near me had 80 dollars off the sticker price that he would be compisated from stihl to sell his 361s off and push the 362 i bought both 361s he had how can you go wrong for 500 dollars one has a 18inch bar and i didnt want the 20inch bar so i said give me the 16inch bar and i got 20 dollars off for taking smaller bars most of the hard wood here in pa are all small most of my work is done with a 16inch bar but as soon as i got home i had to go test it out on some wood liked it alot so the second one will be a spare

[beenthere]

Couple weeks ago I asked my dealer for info on the MS362. Was told by him that they were not released yet, and he didn't have any pricing. But he referred to them as a 'cosmetic' change (not his words exactly but to the effect that changes were minor) plus the larger or better air filter and cowling.

And why, if it is the cure for all ills   (power to weight, etc...) is Stihl discontinuing the model ?

Interesting that it is though of as a cure-all for all ills, but I suspect Stihl is responding to new EPA regs and timelines, as this 362 is said to be more fuel efficient (might mean at the expense of something we like about the MS361).

[footer]

I bought my 026 new with a 20" bar with .325 chain, and used it that way for quite a few years (Firewood Cutting). I think it was OK with that size bar, but not great. Then I came across a good deal on a used 034 with a bran new 16" bar and chain. First thing i did was swap the bars, so now i have the 16" on the 026 and 20" on the 034. For me, that is the ideal setup. The 126 seems to like the 16" bar a lot better, and the 134 handles the 20" a lot better than the 026 does. I also have an 084 with a 24", 36" and 60" Bars for the bigger stuff. I still have a tendency to run the 084 with the 24" bar when i want to cut a bunch in a short amount of time ;D

[madhatte]

026/260 really want a 16" bar.  That configuration is fast and maneuverable.  I have on occasion run a 20" bar for short periods (such as freeing up a stuck larger saw) and found the power to be lacking.  16" 3/8 .50 YELLOW ES bar is how I usually run mine, and it is a limbing monster.  Why the stress on yellow?  Simple:  I'm always snipping out conks and diseased sections for my pathology collection, and I need to be able to bore well.  Also, all of the yellow ES bars (up to 36", IIRC) use the same replacement nose/sprocket assembly.  That makes it just a little bit easier to keep my fleet going on a shoestring budget. 

[windthrown]

Well, it is not so much that fact that the bars are yellow, its the fact that the bars are SOLID and not laminated. I have bent solid GB bars and bent them back into place in a jiffy so that you would never know they were bent. The real issue I guess with yellow bars is the size of the nose sprocket (optional larger sizes), and hence the kickback.

[windthrown]

Why are so many of you in love with the 361 ?    And why, if it is the cure for all ills  ;) (power to weight, etc...) is Stihl discontinuing the model ?

Well, they are good saws. I have three of them myself. They fill the sweet spot for cutting for me, and they do not fatigue me like the 044 and larger saws that I have had  like the 460 and 066. They have good AV, and are light enough to limb with and they will run a 25 inch bar no problem (my favorite length B&C on that saw). I have felled many trees with them. My second and third favorte saws are the 044 and the 026.

Stihl made the 361 design bottom up from the factory with really good engineering. They took the best that they had and made it better, and added a lot of Husky style features (like good spring loaded AV). The reason that they are dropping the 361 are the new 2010 EPA smog laws. All saws have to comply with the US 2010 EPA laws and also (in Europe) the EU AV laws. So they have changed the 361 to a strato 'cleaner' and heavier and more expensive engine 362 to comply with the new chainsaw engine laws. They also changed the AV springs, and added a centrifugal air cleaner to compete with the Husky ads, and some other small features.

[windthrown]

Couple weeks ago I asked my dealer for info on the MS362. Was told by him that they were not released yet, and he didn't have any pricing. But he referred to them as a 'cosmetic' change (not his words exactly but to the effect that changes were minor) plus the larger or better air filter and cowling.

And why, if it is the cure for all ills   (power to weight, etc...) is Stihl discontinuing the model ?

Interesting that it is though of as a cure-all for all ills, but I suspect Stihl is responding to new EPA regs and timelines, as this 362 is said to be more fuel efficient (might mean at the expense of something we like about the MS361).

They have long since stopped all production of the 361 in Virginia and the 362s have been released into most all the US regions now. We started getting the 362s here in the PNW about a month ago, and now all of the 361s are gone (snowstorms empty the chainsaw shelves). Some dealers may not have sold off all of their 361s in stock, so they have not replaced them with the 362 yet. The 362 is far more than a cosmetic change (see my above post). They have a completely different engine in them. They are also a lot more expensive. $610 here for a 361, and $690 for a 362, from the same dealer. That is a discount price over other dealers here. I have been quoted $740 from other dealers for the 362. For that price I would opt for a 441.

Also while the air filtering is said to be better, I do not agree. I never had problems with the 361 air filters, and I do not like the newer snap and bolted air filters on the 441 or the 362. Nor do I run my saws in mountains of wood chips, like the Husky ads display when they comapre their saws to Stihls. Marketing BS, but people seem to believe it. As for the 362 having better gas milage, it is "implied" from the Stihl ads that the 362 is better than the 361. But that is NOT what Stihl is saying in the ads and on their web site. They say thet the 362 runs cleaner and more efficient than "earlier model saws". They make no specific reference to the 361, so I do not believe that it is that much cleaner or more fuel efficient. Maybe they are comparing it to the 360? Hard to tell, but it is just more advertizing BS if you ask me.

In my view the 361 is the better saw. If for no other reason than price and weight. They are the last of the better non-strato engines. And like the 026, they respond really well to typical muffler modifications and porting. Porting strato engine saws is trickey, and strato engines have not been proven over a very long time.

[madhatte]

Note:  The baddest-azz 60cc saw I own is a good ol' 036 PRO with a muff mod and a mild woods port.  It ALMOST pulls with an 044.  I have had 361s that came very close, but fell short.  I have a hard time imagining that the 362, with its extra weight, will pull the same.  Even so, I'll likely be buying a couple for the work fleet this year, mainly because I'm trying to phase out our 036's.  Why?  They have been used and abused for almost 20 years by god-knows-how-many techs and are starting to be more trouble than they are worth.  I estimate that they must all have >3000 hours on each of them.  They have earned their retirement. 

Of course, I am willing to entertain offers on 361's in the meantime.