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If you had $30,000 to spend what would U do?

Started by andybuildz, December 25, 2009, 11:30:11 AM

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ljmathias

Andy, I'm a little confused on your rest-of-life plan here.  Is it to build a house and maybe a few out buildings to work in or is it to build the basis for a second career?  I'm turning 61 in a few days (like 2) and have been involved in a career wind down and restart over the last couple of years.  I'm now half-retired with full retirement in a couple more years.  Twelve years ago, bought 17 acres; added another 30 or so adjacent and a couple other small parcels as well- now over 50 with some nice SYP ready whenever I need it.  Bought a tractor with FEL first, then a Woodmizer LT30 manual (did I mention how old it was?  Try dirt...) and got started milling that way, just to have wood for barns and storage sheds and to do something with dead trees.  Worked out fantastic when Katrina hit- stored about 50 SYP in barns, cut a few more and all the oak and popular that was down from the storm.  Graduated to a bigger barn and now a new house for my son's family- lots of the wood in that I cut, including all the siding, and soon, the upstairs flooring.  Now getting into woodworking more as well.  Tried timberframing on a small workshop; still not finished with that and no hope to in the near future.

One of my goals is to provide and interesting and educational environment for my grandkids.  I'm blessed to have all four of my kids within 12 miles of the farm, two of them living on the land in temp housing while I build them more permanent dwellings.  I'd love to do TF for more structures but I'm under money, time and energy constrains- all mine since I do most of the work myself and with my money; kids were hit very, very hard by the downturn...

Overall, I love how things have turned out- not the bad stuff, which happens no matter what you do, but the good that has resulted from it, from Katrina to the declined and declining economy.  Being able to be more independent on building has been a God send...

Having said all that, let me re-ask the main question: if all you have is $30K to build a house, you better plan very carefully: the small house I'm building for my son right now will end up at about that amount, including have tradesmen do the HVAC, septic field/tank and drywall: some things I just don't have time or training to learn to do myself.  Everything else in the house I did, but remember that you still have to buy roofing, nails, plumbing supplies (son is a plumber so he did the work), windows and doors, paint and siding sealer.... and it all adds up real fast.  The old expression is absolutely true: it always takes longer and costs more, sometimes lots more.

My advice: plan well, down to every detail you can forsee, budget carefully, do as much of the work yourself as you can (keeps your abilities sharp but does take a toll on the old body) and count on the unforseen happening.  Dave Ramsey's rule about an emergency fund is sound advice, and others have made it: 3-6 months of income in the bank for easy access.  We draw that down some and replenish as needed, but you absolutely must have resources available to you to build a house; that is, if you don't want a mortgage at the end, which is the best way to go imo.

Best of luck, and keep us posted here with what you do and learn- mutually beneficial education and entertainment.

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

andybuildz

ljmathias,
    Nice post..thanks!
Sorry I wasn't more clear..I guess I'm trying not to jinx myself by being so definite as to what's going to happen this spring.
I have a buyer for my house right now which has been a never ending fiasco that's one giant emotional roller coaster ride I won't go into detail about right now being it's still ongoing...ugh. It's the Goose Hill Rd project in my website ( www.cliffordrenovations.com ).

Anyway...as I said I've been in my own remodelling business for over 32 years now full time and being I'm nearing in on 60 years old I think it's time I built myself & wife something we can "stay in" and not ever think about selling again like I've done with all the houses up till now.
The Fox Hunt Lane project in my website was the one I lived in before this Goose Hill Rd house... We lived in constant demo and building phases for decades already trying to get to this point. It also afforded us to live in a great school district for our kids...both of whom are out of the house now. Youngest daughter is in her second year of college in Manhattan. School of Visual Arts (photography- www.iamjoliephotography.com ).

We've been looking seriously into the Western NC mountains...Asheville vicinity.
I've done a little timber framing but not nearly enough to know what I'm doing enough to build the kind of house I'd like so I plan on going to one of the many timber frame schools available. There's 2-3 in Franklin, NC not far from Asheville.

I should pick it up pretty quickly being I've been building and cuttin' wood for decades already.
I'd like to restart up my business where ever I move to and if I could incorporate some timber framing into it I think it'd give me a new shot of energy I need. Getting a little sick of conventional building already.

I'd have to say that most of what you wrote in  your post to me is what I can totally relate to. We're pretty much in the same mindset.

The $30,000 isn't all I'd have for "everything". It'd be "just for" equipment. I figure maybe $150-200,000 for the actual house and all that goes into it from the site work to the timbers to the electric and plumbing, etc and so on.

I just wanted to figure out if it's worth not buying equipment and just buy the logs already milled.

Seems to me no matter what I do I still "have to have" a tractor or backhoe w/a FEL so all we're really talking about is the mill.

Seems to me besides using it for a timber frame the amt of other things you'd use it for while building up a nice lil' homestead is endless and it should pay for itself in no time.

If I ended up being able to also use it for my business in some kinda way...then great...if not, then I could always sell it (yeh sure..lol).
HTTP://www.cliffordrenovations.com
"How people treat you is their karma, how you respond is yours"

DanG

Yes that was a great post, LJ, and full of good advice. :) :)

I was unclear if the $30k was the tool budget or the whole thing, but you cleared that up, Andy.  It sounds like you're sitting pretty! 8) 8)

What I was gonna say(and still am ;D ), is that the bulk of the $30k is recyclable if you buy and sell wisely.  I just peeked at Sawmill Exchange and saw a good MD 128 in Kentucky for $13,500.  You could, if you had to, do the whole project with it, then sell it to buy your roof or something.  The MD is ideal for the project, imho, especially if you'll be sawing alone.

I'm strongly advocating the backhoe, assuming you can use something that big and heavy on your land, because they are dirt cheap right now.  With the construction industry in the toilet, they're easy to find for under $10k.  I bought a '93 Cat for $8500, and now there's a local JD 410 on CL for the same money.  The guy I bought mine from only had it for 3 months.  He bought it to clear his lot and do the foundation for his house, then sold it to me for what he had in it.  He got all that work done for the cost of fuel. ;)  Also, the loader on my backhoe will lift about twice as much as a typical farm tractor's loader.

Here's another point:  IF Lowes had 4x8s, I could still cut down the tree on my place and have it milled and stacked in about the same time it would take me to go to Lowes and back.  Lowes don't have 4x8s. ::)  They also don't have anything over 16' long, but I can cut 24'. ;D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

andybuildz

I totally agree with you Dan about a hoe vs tractor especially with building a house from scratch. A tractor'd be nice for other things but I won't have to worry about "other things" for quite awhile once this all starts.

I could probably even till the soil for a large garden with a hoe some kinda way.
Not to mention clear some roads along with digging a foundation and moving and lifting.
Seems right to me.

I have The Sawmill Exchange right on top of my screen and check it every few days...even though I'm in no position to buy right now.
I check Ebay as well. Lotta Linn mills there but from time to time I see some good deals on WM'ers etc.

Gawd I hope these people buy my house. I should know next week for sure.. whiteflag_smiley
HTTP://www.cliffordrenovations.com
"How people treat you is their karma, how you respond is yours"

PlicketyCat

Andy - being in somewhat the same position, my advice would be to invest in whatever heavy hauling equipment makes sense in your overall plan... whether thats a hoe, tractor or skid steer... anything with a FEL or a boom to help tote those logs around.  Even if you decided not to mill them yourself, you'll still need to get the logs off your property (unless you hired a logging team to do it, some mills will do your custom work in exchange for the rights to come log for property). So, that bit of machinery wil be a good hard asset to park some/most of your budget and will be an excellent long term investment.

If you really want to mill your own, it's just a matter of determining how much you'll be using it and how long you have to finish the project. Get the mill that matches your needs, and you can resell it later if you only need it for the one project.  Same goes for all the other TF tools... get the ones you think you'll need, at the best quality you think you can afford; but don't go crazy with uber-pro tools if you aren't planning to frame a lot more than one house.  (I could easily drop a few cool grand on framing on woodworking tools if my budget allowed)

Of course, if project completion speed and keeping the wife happy is high on your list... you may want to consider modified post and beam.  (I know, I know, don't shoot me!) You could have the same feel as TF but the members are much lighter for one or two people to work with. You could spend your time milling the smaller dimensional stuff and less time with the joinery... it's just a matter of where you want to spend your time and what's most important to you. MPB is that middle-ground between stick and TF, so the learning curve is not as steep.  Then you could spend your tool budget on non-building specific tools that have more varied use in your long term plan (like ag equipment or solar panels, etc). Just a thought.
Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. --- Oscar Wilde

Follow our adventures at Off-Grid in Alaska blog.

Brad_bb

Well it seems Andy is more after toys(mill, loader, atv), than the most cost efficient route, as evidenced by no response to my most cost effective suggestions.  It would be nice to go on a shopping spree.  Now's the best time to I guess.

Picketycat, maybe post a pic in a separate thread so we can see what you are calling MPB?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

andybuildz

Quote from: Brad_bb on December 28, 2009, 05:40:43 PM
Well it seems Andy is more after toys(mill, loader, atv), than the most cost efficient route, as evidenced by no response to my most cost effective suggestions.  It would be nice to go on a shopping spree.  Now's the best time to I guess.

Picketycat, maybe post a pic in a separate thread so we can see what you are calling MPB?

Brad..there wasn't "anything" I didn't disagree with in your post.
I'm just exploring all the options before hand and then keep an eye out for all the possibilities when the actual time is here because any deals out there today I doubt will be there when I'm ready.

If I were able to find all my timbers cut and ready to go at a good price...comparatively speaking than of course I'd go in that direction.

Far as toys go...no...thats not what I'm looking for at all. Wish I could afford some toys. Once again I'm just keeping an open mind to what might be a possibility in different situations.
I'm not sold on doing any one thing. I'm just learning and trying to plan ahead by having all my cards on the table.

I've read so many different ways of doing things in this forum over the past few years. I just try and file them away the best I can and go from there.
Thanks for the reply Brad. It goes really appreciated!
andy
HTTP://www.cliffordrenovations.com
"How people treat you is their karma, how you respond is yours"

andybuildz

Plickety...Modified post'n beam?
I'm open to all suggestions.
I did actually consider a hybrid to some degree but not sold on any one idea other than wanting a timber frame at least in part....like I said...I'm open. Time can do a lot of things :o
HTTP://www.cliffordrenovations.com
"How people treat you is their karma, how you respond is yours"

zopi

I like the way my wife put it..the mill is not an expense..it is an investment...She sure did like that Q-sawn stuff...

I kind of like the idea of a hybrid..TF the main structure, say your basic farmhouse plan..center chimney and all and add stick built wings to it within an overall design.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Jasperfield

Andybuildz,

You may be beyond this stage in your planning, but I thought I'd mention it nevertheless.

For the South, Asheville and vicinity is a very expensive place to live and work. NC is not at all a tax-friendly state. And you'll pay a premium, even now, for land.

If I wasn't here, in WNC, I'd settle out around Greeneville, TN which is about 70 miles NNW of Asheville. Or just about anywhere between Knoxville and Bristol. There you'll get almost twice the land for your dollar. And the land lays much better thereby allowing you to use all of it. It is not as densely populated as WNC and, more significantly, not as heavily regulated.

Over the last 15-20 years a significant number of WNC farmers and forest industry people have moved into TN for these very reasons. Some of them, whom still live here in WNC, have bought land there to use for farming and/or forestry.

Tennessee is a very tax-friendly state at all levels (city, county, & state) and you can build pretty much whatever you want to; This is not the case in NC in the Western counties.

However, if you come to WNC, I'm sure you'll like it, too.

logman

I was going to recommend the same thing as Jasperfield.  I moved from Maryland to the mountains of NC and wish I had
checked things out a little more as far as taxes are concerned.  I just didn't think it would be worse than Md.  They don't have a state income tax in Tn either, at least on regular income.  The sales tax here is working on 8%, (7.75%)  I thought it was bad in Md, it was 5% and just went up to 6%.  All in all though we love it here in the mountains and would never move back to Md.  We live in Fleetwood which is near Boone, NC. 
LT40HD, 12' ext, 5105 JD tractor, Genie GTH5519 telehandler
M&K Timber Works

PlicketyCat

Here's a link to a guy in Tennessee who's building with the easiest (IMO) modified post & beam method: You basically build with the same posts -- pole framing, not platform framing -- but instead of using solid beams, you use two dimensional boards on either side of a notched post with blocking at intervals. Same strength, less weight, easier handling, easier joins... and it almost looks as good.

http://homesteadingintennessee.blogspot.com/2008/11/modified-post-and-beam-frame.html


And these guys build really nice homes and buildings with MPB, and they go a step farther by making a lot of their posts using the same sandwich method... makes attaching diagonal bracing oodles easier if you're not opposed to using hardware instead of joinery.

http://www.geobarns.com/construction.htm
Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. --- Oscar Wilde

Follow our adventures at Off-Grid in Alaska blog.

andybuildz

PlicketyCat...Dude....thats gotta be some of the wildest framing I ever saw...geezzz.
I need to check it out further after work tomorrow...

...as well as talk a little bit about why I chose the Asheville area...I'm not locked in concrete on it but...we shall see...
Gonna Google some of that Tenn. area when I get a little more time as well...

long story...
    yawwnnnnn...
nite all***
Gotsta make sawdust early again tomorrow...again.
The only thing worse than working this hard...is havin' no work! ugh
a
HTTP://www.cliffordrenovations.com
"How people treat you is their karma, how you respond is yours"

andybuildz

OK...I'm off from work from today through sunday 8)
Now I'll get the time to re-read and absorb some of these great posts.

Only thing is...now...you guys diverted my attention and I've been Googling Tenn the past two hours, Knoxville area so far and MAN...you really do get a lot more for your money there and still get to be near a big city. did I read that Knoxville is the 3rd largest city in the country?

I need to work so a big city not that far from a rural area is a plus...plus it's not that far from trips to NC.

I mean...I know I could live in the middle of Dakota and get a lot more for my money too but the east coast sits well with me.

NY's dreary ice cold winters are really getting old for me already and a bit more mild climate'd be nice.

Mtns are a big plus too...but one thing can weigh out another so I never say never about anything till I check it out.

OK..back to Googling some of this stuff.

Happy'n healthy New Year to everybody
andy
HTTP://www.cliffordrenovations.com
"How people treat you is their karma, how you respond is yours"

Raider Bill

I agree tenn gets you way more bang for your buck! When I compare what I got in Tenn vs what friends got in NC I'm always pleased. The only draw back is the high sales tax but that's offset by low property taxes and no state income tax I suppose.
I read somewhere that Tenn has the 4th lowest electric rates in the country and the power co where my place is just happens to be one of the lowest in the state.
Coming from NYS anythings got to be better tax and cost wise.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

DanG

Youse goiys better quit bragging about Tennessee or they'll do the same thing to it they did to Florida. ;) :D :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Raider Bill

Well the Florida boom is over now that more people are leaving then moving here. You know it's bad when the Mexicans are getting out. ::)

Tenn had a mini boom back a few years ago when things were going good or at least people thought things were good. [Me Included :-\]
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

scgargoyle

SC is pretty reasonable for land, too. We have 7 acres only 15 miles outside of Greenville, which is a pretty major manufacturing center, with BMW, Michelin, GE, and a bunch of others. We bought there because I have to be near a city for work, too. They do have state income tax, though.
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

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