If you had $30,000 to spend what would U do?

[andybuildz]

Besides leave for a vacation.. 8)

OK..here's the scenario.
Say you had a bunch of acres in the mountains of NC and wanted to build a timber frame (or possibly part hybrid to keep costs down).
The property has a good deal of timber that could be used in the frame...maybe not all, but a good deal.
And for arguments sake if you bought a used mill...
the cost would be average in this scenario..not I-won-the-lottery scenario  :-\
...also with the thought of buying one new with some accessories.

My thought would be a Norwood 2000...b/c you get a fair amount of machine for the money.
Cpl of good chain saws
A FEL
Some Arches
ATV
Timber Frame tools
~~sort of doubt you could get all of the above in good condition for $30K...but maybe?~~

How would you spend the money for a project like this?

Some might say to buy the logs already cut but does that save a real lot? Thing is too...for a seasoned tool junkie, making sawdust is a good part of the soul of it all imo. Or is that being overly romantic (for a change)?

[Ironwood]

What is your opportunity cost? How much time (and health) do you have? At 158 years old you may want to find a used mobile home.

A used Norwood would be a sound investment if your health is good and want to do the work yourself. I dont think you can find a more straight forward mill.

       Ironwood

[andybuildz]

>> At 158 years old you may want to find a used mobile home. <<
and in March I'll be 159!! Not bad huh? Still feel like I'm  in m y 40's physically...but I ain't holdin' my breath..ya never know at any age.
I think I'd rather a MOBILE DIMENSION rather than a Mobile Home but if I bought a new Mobile Dimension than all I'd probably be able to afford after that "would" be a Mobile Home so....6 of 1 and all of that.

One thing I learned about timber Framing is age/physical ability comes into the picture maybe more'n any other craft...although with enough money/hydraulics and machinary the sky's the limit.

Unfortunatly if yer pockets ain't that deep you'll need to learn how to be more resourceful which seems to be a life-long past time with a lot of us

I was wondering if I posted this in the Saw Mill threads vs the timber framing threads...would the Sawyers be more inclinded to say yes to having a mill in the equation at all. Prolly' so.

[DanG]

Lots of ways to go on this, Andy.  If you're just looking at lumber for one house, you might be better to just cut your own logs and hire the sawing done.  If, on the other hand, you really want a mill, then by all means get one.  A used MD would be a great choice.  You could sell it for what you invested after the project is done, but I doubt if you would. ;) :D  Personally, I wouldn't dream of buying a new MD with so many good used ones on the market for half the money.  My 1986 model is virtually identical to the 2009 model.

[Ironwood]

Definitely, post it in the sawmill threads. As far as timber frames, they have there place, big spans, large rooms, aesthetics, tradition. For me, more utilitarian I'll frame it stick style, insulate and enjoy. My brother in law built a REALLY nice timber frame garage. He was passionate about it, want to learn the trade. He did an OUTSTANDING job. It is uninsulated and quite nice. If it needed insulated the question becomes, How, and at what cost? SIP's are $$$$. Re-framing for traditional batts is silly, so?  For me I walked away saying for my $, I'd stick frame it. Know he has an asset that did increase his property value more than "just a garage". His area is coastal Maine, so potential buyers may value the traditional nature of the structure. Not so where I am, SW Pa..

Just depends on your motivations.

Ironwood

[andybuildz]

The mill is probably what would cut the bill in half Dan....
   and on the other hand...cut half the vision out as well...for me personally.

The soul of the project is what makes it worth sweating for imo.
DW has a hard time getting that. She sees things from a different perspective.
More from a business point of view which is great in a lot of cases...but when you go ahead and build something it becomes very personal especially when it's for you....and I KNOW most everyone here gets that!

I know DW would like to see (if we could afford it when the time comes) all the logs cut and delivered and while that is a nice vision even for me knowing how much of the work is already done for you .... on the other hand...for a lot of people like me...I know I'd feel as though I missed out on a lot the process thats important to me. I guess you could call it a soul thing.

I think sawyers and TF'ers find a lot of spirituality in what they do as do most true seasoned craftspeople. It goes beyond a business mind-set..although one does have to stay focused on reality in the same breath...hence this thread.

I've been doing conventional building over 32 years and for me...I'm sick of stick framing not that I find anything wrong with it. To me a timber frame is so much more interesting and warm. Maybe it's because I've been a craftsperson almost my entire life. I love to see the hand worked joints'n beams as part of the finished product...rather than being buried under drywall.

I also know how much more lumber goes into a house besides the timbers and how much is needed for other projects on the property that gives a saw mill a bit more credibility as far as a money saving resource in the long haul.

[Sprucegum]

Spending time on a bunch of acres in the mountains is a vacation  8)

Drop the ATV off your list and divert that money to your FEL tractor and it will be doable for under $30,000.

The main factor is time - how soon do you need to move in to the house you build? Can you wait 5 years while you get set up with equipment and other infrastructure or do you have to be in before next winter?

[zopi]

Used hydraulic mill and a FEL for the tractor I already have..The too old for timber framing can be had piecemeal and are not complicated or expensive...our forefathers did it with axes and handsaws and carved the country out of the jungle...

I say hyd mill..oh let's say for instance my favorite...an LT-40...will saw a 20'
timber, and you won't wear yourself out swing, when you need the energy for
logging and building...If you aren't going to mill commercially, and old one will
do there are some..you can get an early 90's mill in not to bad shape for under
15000...and you have the mill for the rest of the buildings you will build up there with all the time you saved over a manual mill..<G>

The arches are useful, but not really necessary, unless you need a fetching arch to fish logs out of remote timber...me I'd rather have a logging winch for the tractor....

[andybuildz]

Spending time on a bunch of acres in the mountains is a vacation  8)

Drop the ATV off your list and divert that money to your FEL tractor and it will be doable for under $30,000.

The main factor is time - how soon do you need to move in to the house you build? Can you wait 5 years while you get set up with equipment and other infrastructure or do you have to be in before next winter?

I think you're right about  the ATV..although it depends on how your property is laid out and how you can skid logs from one end of the property to the other.
'Course this is only going by all that I've read in different posts here and in The Guilds forum.

I'm really trying to be realistic in this 'vision' so far...and I try and not bring up the thought of using donkey's..lol.

One thing I've learned over the years is that sometimes I end up making more work for myself so I try and pay attention to that wonderful quality of mine...lol.

[andybuildz]

I don't know how many people here did it this way but I thought a good plan would be to design the house so you could live in it before it's completely finished.

See if you could get up some of the bents enough to dry in and mostly move into while leaving  the rest to be done with a more relaxed pace.

I know DW'd like it to be done within 6 months :D and I know a year and a half is more realistic but if one could do it in two phases it would become physically and emotionally less demanding imo.

[moonhill]

Ironwood, wrap and strap the frame, it will enclose a frame very nicely. 

Andy, how about that Tee Pee?  I'm sure donkeys would fit with it. 

Did you check out the earth ships in the Alternative section?

Tim

[Jeff]

Definitely, post it in the sawmill threads.

No, definitely don't. Those same people frequent this board as well.  Threads of the same topic posted in multiple boards has never been allowed and would be deleted.

There is a reason we don't do that, and the biggest one is confusion for those that do read all of the forum, or all parts. They don't know what they read where and why their post is not where they thought it was because now they are reading in an identical topic in a different spot.

If you would like, I can move the whole thread, but please don't start another on the same thing.

[andybuildz]

Definitely, post it in the sawmill threads.

No, definitely don't. Those same people frequent this board as well.  Threads of the same topic posted in multiple boards has never been allowed and would be deleted.

There is a reason we don't do that, and the biggest one is confusion for those that do read all of the forum, or all parts. They don't know what they read where and why their post is not where they thought it was.

If you would like, I can move the whole thread.

I dunno...maybe move it after people stop posting in it here but for now...
Only makes sense that the folks in the sawmill threads would lean that way. I think.

PS...thats why I didn't post this in both places. Seemed like it'd be kinda redundent...lol.

Hey...maybe take a poll and see if more people in the mill folders frequent the TF threads more than the TF'ers frequent the sawmill threads.
I think I had too much eggnog... ;D

[Jasperfield]

...a little bit off subject;

But, if I had $30k to spend I'd probably buy some ConAgra, Altria, or Norfolk Southern.

[DanG]

Andy, you can do your list on $30k, but not with brand new equipment.  Scratch the ATV.  It's a toy.

I got my MD mill for $9k, and a nice backhoe for $8500.  Add a couple of nice new chainsaws to that and you're set to log and saw, and have $10k+ left for other stuff.  The backhoe will move the logs with no sweat and do all your site work to boot.  You wouldn't need an arch with the backhoe, but you could use one if you like.

Are you going to frame with green timbers?  If so, having your own mill makes a lot of sense.  If you do all the logging first and hire the sawing done all at once, part of your timbers will be dry by the time you use them.  Having your own mill, you can log and saw as you go.  A manual mill would be fine for this, IMHO.  You could probably saw all the timbers you could use in a week in a single afternoon on most any mill.

[Brad_bb]

If you want a to saw wood, then that's what you want and good on ya to go get a mill.  If on the other hand your goal is to build one timber frame, I'd recommend another path for you. 

If it's liquid money in these times, I'd park most of it in a safe place (fixed investment).  Then I'd say to do what I did - look for deals on timbers.  If you keep your eyes open and looking in the right places, you can find some decent deals on reclaim timber.   I bought a bunch of white pine barn timbers in the 8X8 and 8X10 range for .26/BF two years ago.  I purchased clean 10"X10"X16' and 12' hardwood timbers for .90/BF delivered.  So depending on what you are after, you can find wood at an economical price if you can scrounge. 

I've also learned a couple ways to get them moved at very good rates.  Depending on what you want as the final finish, this may or may not be what you want.  If you want all planed s4s timbers, well, you'll do better purchasing from a mill that does that.  If you want rough sawn finish, reclaim is good.  If you want something in between, you'll have to do it with some of your own labor.  If you scrounge your wood like this, and look for good deals on tools, you could do if for half that money. 

I'm sure you know all the tools a framer can have, but all you'd really need is the basics- a 2" and 1.5" framing chisel, mallet, framing square, combo square, a new Stanley Sharptooth saw, a good tape measure, Bit and brace for peg holes, a mortising machine, and you're practically off to the races.  Get a froe, and a draw knife, and build a shaving horse to make your pegs.  

[moonhill]

Hand tools will total up to around $1000 but if you are going to be working salvaged dry wood you will want to inject some power into the equation and the sky is the limit.  Hand tools equal green wood.

If I had an extra 30k if would put it in a Forcat.  I don't know if hoarding cash now is the best route, put it into a physical thing.  I see cash as being unstable.  Why is it called a $20 dollar "Bill", now someone owes someone else,  perpetual debt and building.

Tim

[andybuildz]

Pretty cool tool Tim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InYaqkYKR1c

[bill m]

Well - really it would only be 15 thou. The wife would get the other 15! So maybe a sawmill or a small tracked machine for in the woods.

[DR Buck]

For under $10K you could buy a new LT15 with bed extensions which you'll need for your longer timbers.   I agree, scratch the ATV.   You can skid with a tractor with a FEL  and a Logrite arch and it's a more versatile combination of equipment.    Don't forget a couple of Logrite cant hooks.  :D

[andybuildz]

I love the idea of a tractor or a Bobcat (or similar) w/a FEL being one could use it for so many other ongoing project. It also makes sense that one wouldn't need an expensive all hydraulic mill being your FEL could help move'n turn logs.

I'm not really well versed in equipment like that...Bobcats, Kubatas etc. I looked in the forum for folders on such equipment to no avail..
Am I missing it somewhere or isn't there a folder for equipment like that. If not, there should be?

What would a reliable Bobcat or Kubata etc etc go for that could handle site work as well as skidding and lifting timbers?

[Jeff]

Maybe for Andy, scratching the atv is the right call, but calling it a toy would be far from accurate in some cases.   A tractor could never function on my property other then in extreme times of drought due to my hydric soils. An ATV and an arch are about the only options available to me without scarring my land.  Horses are of no value as the ground does not freeze in the winter. At least it never has since I owned it. Its not like its swamp covered in water, but the water table is with a foot of the surface and an ATV it the perfect solution for me.

[Brad_bb]

I agree with moonhill that hand tools will cost $1000-$1500.  The only power tool that would be a real help is a mortiser.  He's probably already got a circ saw for kerf cuts.  Hand saw is fine for cutoffs and finish cuts if you have a sharp one and know how to use it to get a square cut.  But I'm trying to illustrate that he can get what he said he wanted (his wood and timberframe)for far less without the cost of a mill.  Now...I'm getting the impression that just WANTS a mill.  If that's what he WANTS, great.  I understand completely.  I'd like to have a mill myself.  But for one frame, I don't think it's going to be the most economical route.  I can get it done for far less in my opinion.  He might want to build his own timber cart if they are softwood timbers.  Large hardwood timbers, probably need a forklift of some sort.  I'm looking for the right one for me now.

[DanG]

Jeff, the "toy" reference wasn't intended to infer that an ATV can't be classed as a tool.  If you need it, it's a tool.  If you don't, it's a toy.  In Andy's case, he needs a loader of some sort, so if he can use that same machine for his logging, it puts the ATV back into the toy category.  Right now, my backhoe is a toy, or more appropriately, a yard ornament.  A hovercraft is about the only  logging vehicle I could use right now. :-\ :D :D

[andybuildz]

I understood the toy reference. To me it all depends on what tool is needed for the situation.
I first read about ATV's and skidding by someone that could 'only' use an ATV on their property...or at least thats what they thought. They said a backhoe or tractor wouldn't go where it was needed. I get that.

I also know that a tractor of backhoe would be a lot more useful for tons of other things  such as the site work and tons of other projects.

I 'do' want a mill but if that got in the way of doing the project$ and it wasn't 100% necessary than I'd let it go.

If I 'could' fit a mill in all the better. I can think of tons of other things it'd be useful for besides just the timbers themselves. Just trying to sort out the preferences.

A less expensive mill could work easier $$ if one had a backhoe or tractor.. so one thing might work the other into the equation...possibly.
Now working a hovercraft into the equation? I'm gonna have to try and figure that one out as well : )

[ljmathias]

Andy, I'm a little confused on your rest-of-life plan here.  Is it to build a house and maybe a few out buildings to work in or is it to build the basis for a second career?  I'm turning 61 in a few days (like 2) and have been involved in a career wind down and restart over the last couple of years.  I'm now half-retired with full retirement in a couple more years.  Twelve years ago, bought 17 acres; added another 30 or so adjacent and a couple other small parcels as well- now over 50 with some nice SYP ready whenever I need it.  Bought a tractor with FEL first, then a Woodmizer LT30 manual (did I mention how old it was?  Try dirt...) and got started milling that way, just to have wood for barns and storage sheds and to do something with dead trees.  Worked out fantastic when Katrina hit- stored about 50 SYP in barns, cut a few more and all the oak and popular that was down from the storm.  Graduated to a bigger barn and now a new house for my son's family- lots of the wood in that I cut, including all the siding, and soon, the upstairs flooring.  Now getting into woodworking more as well.  Tried timberframing on a small workshop; still not finished with that and no hope to in the near future.

One of my goals is to provide and interesting and educational environment for my grandkids.  I'm blessed to have all four of my kids within 12 miles of the farm, two of them living on the land in temp housing while I build them more permanent dwellings.  I'd love to do TF for more structures but I'm under money, time and energy constrains- all mine since I do most of the work myself and with my money; kids were hit very, very hard by the downturn...

Overall, I love how things have turned out- not the bad stuff, which happens no matter what you do, but the good that has resulted from it, from Katrina to the declined and declining economy.  Being able to be more independent on building has been a God send...

Having said all that, let me re-ask the main question: if all you have is $30K to build a house, you better plan very carefully: the small house I'm building for my son right now will end up at about that amount, including have tradesmen do the HVAC, septic field/tank and drywall: some things I just don't have time or training to learn to do myself.  Everything else in the house I did, but remember that you still have to buy roofing, nails, plumbing supplies (son is a plumber so he did the work), windows and doors, paint and siding sealer.... and it all adds up real fast.  The old expression is absolutely true: it always takes longer and costs more, sometimes lots more.

My advice: plan well, down to every detail you can forsee, budget carefully, do as much of the work yourself as you can (keeps your abilities sharp but does take a toll on the old body) and count on the unforseen happening.  Dave Ramsey's rule about an emergency fund is sound advice, and others have made it: 3-6 months of income in the bank for easy access.  We draw that down some and replenish as needed, but you absolutely must have resources available to you to build a house; that is, if you don't want a mortgage at the end, which is the best way to go imo.

Best of luck, and keep us posted here with what you do and learn- mutually beneficial education and entertainment.

Lj

[andybuildz]

ljmathias,
    Nice post..thanks!
Sorry I wasn't more clear..I guess I'm trying not to jinx myself by being so definite as to what's going to happen this spring.
I have a buyer for my house right now which has been a never ending fiasco that's one giant emotional roller coaster ride I won't go into detail about right now being it's still ongoing...ugh. It's the Goose Hill Rd project in my website ( www.cliffordrenovations.com ).

Anyway...as I said I've been in my own remodelling business for over 32 years now full time and being I'm nearing in on 60 years old I think it's time I built myself & wife something we can "stay in" and not ever think about selling again like I've done with all the houses up till now.
The Fox Hunt Lane project in my website was the one I lived in before this Goose Hill Rd house... We lived in constant demo and building phases for decades already trying to get to this point. It also afforded us to live in a great school district for our kids...both of whom are out of the house now. Youngest daughter is in her second year of college in Manhattan. School of Visual Arts (photography- www.iamjoliephotography.com ).

We've been looking seriously into the Western NC mountains...Asheville vicinity.
I've done a little timber framing but not nearly enough to know what I'm doing enough to build the kind of house I'd like so I plan on going to one of the many timber frame schools available. There's 2-3 in Franklin, NC not far from Asheville.

I should pick it up pretty quickly being I've been building and cuttin' wood for decades already.
I'd like to restart up my business where ever I move to and if I could incorporate some timber framing into it I think it'd give me a new shot of energy I need. Getting a little sick of conventional building already.

I'd have to say that most of what you wrote in  your post to me is what I can totally relate to. We're pretty much in the same mindset.

The $30,000 isn't all I'd have for "everything". It'd be "just for" equipment. I figure maybe $150-200,000 for the actual house and all that goes into it from the site work to the timbers to the electric and plumbing, etc and so on.

I just wanted to figure out if it's worth not buying equipment and just buy the logs already milled.

Seems to me no matter what I do I still "have to have" a tractor or backhoe w/a FEL so all we're really talking about is the mill.

Seems to me besides using it for a timber frame the amt of other things you'd use it for while building up a nice lil' homestead is endless and it should pay for itself in no time.

If I ended up being able to also use it for my business in some kinda way...then great...if not, then I could always sell it (yeh sure..lol).

[DanG]

Yes that was a great post, LJ, and full of good advice.

I was unclear if the $30k was the tool budget or the whole thing, but you cleared that up, Andy.  It sounds like you're sitting pretty! 8) 8)

What I was gonna say(and still am ;D ), is that the bulk of the $30k is recyclable if you buy and sell wisely.  I just peeked at Sawmill Exchange and saw a good MD 128 in Kentucky for $13,500.  You could, if you had to, do the whole project with it, then sell it to buy your roof or something.  The MD is ideal for the project, imho, especially if you'll be sawing alone.

I'm strongly advocating the backhoe, assuming you can use something that big and heavy on your land, because they are dirt cheap right now.  With the construction industry in the toilet, they're easy to find for under $10k.  I bought a '93 Cat for $8500, and now there's a local JD 410 on CL for the same money.  The guy I bought mine from only had it for 3 months.  He bought it to clear his lot and do the foundation for his house, then sold it to me for what he had in it.  He got all that work done for the cost of fuel. ;)  Also, the loader on my backhoe will lift about twice as much as a typical farm tractor's loader.

Here's another point:  IF Lowes had 4x8s, I could still cut down the tree on my place and have it milled and stacked in about the same time it would take me to go to Lowes and back.  Lowes don't have 4x8s. :  They also don't have anything over 16' long, but I can cut 24'. ;D

[andybuildz]

I totally agree with you Dan about a hoe vs tractor especially with building a house from scratch. A tractor'd be nice for other things but I won't have to worry about "other things" for quite awhile once this all starts.

I could probably even till the soil for a large garden with a hoe some kinda way.
Not to mention clear some roads along with digging a foundation and moving and lifting.
Seems right to me.

I have The Sawmill Exchange right on top of my screen and check it every few days...even though I'm in no position to buy right now.
I check Ebay as well. Lotta Linn mills there but from time to time I see some good deals on WM'ers etc.

Gawd I hope these people buy my house. I should know next week for sure..

[PlicketyCat]

Andy - being in somewhat the same position, my advice would be to invest in whatever heavy hauling equipment makes sense in your overall plan... whether thats a hoe, tractor or skid steer... anything with a FEL or a boom to help tote those logs around.  Even if you decided not to mill them yourself, you'll still need to get the logs off your property (unless you hired a logging team to do it, some mills will do your custom work in exchange for the rights to come log for property). So, that bit of machinery wil be a good hard asset to park some/most of your budget and will be an excellent long term investment.

If you really want to mill your own, it's just a matter of determining how much you'll be using it and how long you have to finish the project. Get the mill that matches your needs, and you can resell it later if you only need it for the one project.  Same goes for all the other TF tools... get the ones you think you'll need, at the best quality you think you can afford; but don't go crazy with uber-pro tools if you aren't planning to frame a lot more than one house.  (I could easily drop a few cool grand on framing on woodworking tools if my budget allowed)

Of course, if project completion speed and keeping the wife happy is high on your list... you may want to consider modified post and beam.  (I know, I know, don't shoot me!) You could have the same feel as TF but the members are much lighter for one or two people to work with. You could spend your time milling the smaller dimensional stuff and less time with the joinery... it's just a matter of where you want to spend your time and what's most important to you. MPB is that middle-ground between stick and TF, so the learning curve is not as steep.  Then you could spend your tool budget on non-building specific tools that have more varied use in your long term plan (like ag equipment or solar panels, etc). Just a thought.

[Brad_bb]

Well it seems Andy is more after toys(mill, loader, atv), than the most cost efficient route, as evidenced by no response to my most cost effective suggestions.  It would be nice to go on a shopping spree.  Now's the best time to I guess.

Picketycat, maybe post a pic in a separate thread so we can see what you are calling MPB?

[andybuildz]

Well it seems Andy is more after toys(mill, loader, atv), than the most cost efficient route, as evidenced by no response to my most cost effective suggestions.  It would be nice to go on a shopping spree.  Now's the best time to I guess.

Picketycat, maybe post a pic in a separate thread so we can see what you are calling MPB?

Brad..there wasn't "anything" I didn't disagree with in your post.
I'm just exploring all the options before hand and then keep an eye out for all the possibilities when the actual time is here because any deals out there today I doubt will be there when I'm ready.

If I were able to find all my timbers cut and ready to go at a good price...comparatively speaking than of course I'd go in that direction.

Far as toys go...no...thats not what I'm looking for at all. Wish I could afford some toys. Once again I'm just keeping an open mind to what might be a possibility in different situations.
I'm not sold on doing any one thing. I'm just learning and trying to plan ahead by having all my cards on the table.

I've read so many different ways of doing things in this forum over the past few years. I just try and file them away the best I can and go from there.
Thanks for the reply Brad. It goes really appreciated!
andy

[andybuildz]

Plickety...Modified post'n beam?
I'm open to all suggestions.
I did actually consider a hybrid to some degree but not sold on any one idea other than wanting a timber frame at least in part....like I said...I'm open. Time can do a lot of things

[zopi]

I like the way my wife put it..the mill is not an expense..it is an investment...She sure did like that Q-sawn stuff...

I kind of like the idea of a hybrid..TF the main structure, say your basic farmhouse plan..center chimney and all and add stick built wings to it within an overall design.

[Jasperfield]

Andybuildz,

You may be beyond this stage in your planning, but I thought I'd mention it nevertheless.

For the South, Asheville and vicinity is a very expensive place to live and work. NC is not at all a tax-friendly state. And you'll pay a premium, even now, for land.

If I wasn't here, in WNC, I'd settle out around Greeneville, TN which is about 70 miles NNW of Asheville. Or just about anywhere between Knoxville and Bristol. There you'll get almost twice the land for your dollar. And the land lays much better thereby allowing you to use all of it. It is not as densely populated as WNC and, more significantly, not as heavily regulated.

Over the last 15-20 years a significant number of WNC farmers and forest industry people have moved into TN for these very reasons. Some of them, whom still live here in WNC, have bought land there to use for farming and/or forestry.

Tennessee is a very tax-friendly state at all levels (city, county, & state) and you can build pretty much whatever you want to; This is not the case in NC in the Western counties.

However, if you come to WNC, I'm sure you'll like it, too.

[logman]

I was going to recommend the same thing as Jasperfield.  I moved from Maryland to the mountains of NC and wish I had
checked things out a little more as far as taxes are concerned.  I just didn't think it would be worse than Md.  They don't have a state income tax in Tn either, at least on regular income.  The sales tax here is working on 8%, (7.75%)  I thought it was bad in Md, it was 5% and just went up to 6%.  All in all though we love it here in the mountains and would never move back to Md.  We live in Fleetwood which is near Boone, NC. 

[PlicketyCat]

Here's a link to a guy in Tennessee who's building with the easiest (IMO) modified post & beam method: You basically build with the same posts -- pole framing, not platform framing -- but instead of using solid beams, you use two dimensional boards on either side of a notched post with blocking at intervals. Same strength, less weight, easier handling, easier joins... and it almost looks as good.

http://homesteadingintennessee.blogspot.com/2008/11/modified-post-and-beam-frame.html


And these guys build really nice homes and buildings with MPB, and they go a step farther by making a lot of their posts using the same sandwich method... makes attaching diagonal bracing oodles easier if you're not opposed to using hardware instead of joinery.

http://www.geobarns.com/construction.htm

[andybuildz]

PlicketyCat...Dude....thats gotta be some of the wildest framing I ever saw...geezzz.
I need to check it out further after work tomorrow...

...as well as talk a little bit about why I chose the Asheville area...I'm not locked in concrete on it but...we shall see...
Gonna Google some of that Tenn. area when I get a little more time as well...

long story...
    yawwnnnnn...
nite all***
Gotsta make sawdust early again tomorrow...again.
The only thing worse than working this hard...is havin' no work! ugh
a

[andybuildz]

OK...I'm off from work from today through sunday 8)
Now I'll get the time to re-read and absorb some of these great posts.

Only thing is...now...you guys diverted my attention and I've been Googling Tenn the past two hours, Knoxville area so far and MAN...you really do get a lot more for your money there and still get to be near a big city. did I read that Knoxville is the 3rd largest city in the country?

I need to work so a big city not that far from a rural area is a plus...plus it's not that far from trips to NC.

I mean...I know I could live in the middle of Dakota and get a lot more for my money too but the east coast sits well with me.

NY's dreary ice cold winters are really getting old for me already and a bit more mild climate'd be nice.

Mtns are a big plus too...but one thing can weigh out another so I never say never about anything till I check it out.

OK..back to Googling some of this stuff.

Happy'n healthy New Year to everybody
andy

[Raider Bill]

I agree tenn gets you way more bang for your buck! When I compare what I got in Tenn vs what friends got in NC I'm always pleased. The only draw back is the high sales tax but that's offset by low property taxes and no state income tax I suppose.
I read somewhere that Tenn has the 4th lowest electric rates in the country and the power co where my place is just happens to be one of the lowest in the state.
Coming from NYS anythings got to be better tax and cost wise.

[DanG]

Youse goiys better quit bragging about Tennessee or they'll do the same thing to it they did to Florida. ;) :D :D :D

[Raider Bill]

Well the Florida boom is over now that more people are leaving then moving here. You know it's bad when the Mexicans are getting out. :

Tenn had a mini boom back a few years ago when things were going good or at least people thought things were good. [Me Included :-\]

[scgargoyle]

SC is pretty reasonable for land, too. We have 7 acres only 15 miles outside of Greenville, which is a pretty major manufacturing center, with BMW, Michelin, GE, and a bunch of others. We bought there because I have to be near a city for work, too. They do have state income tax, though.